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Flinters! Pass me some more popcorn would you old chap? I'm enjoying this. :ok:
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slim
Barney, don't give a toss. When you go looking for a job with your TR, don't call me :-) |
Originally Posted by The Real Slim Shady
When you go looking for a job with your TR, don't call me
http://www.jetflite.fi/images/mini_OH_ANS.jpg For this...... http://ts4.mm.bing.net/images/thumbn...09%2520016.jpg As for my type rating, that'll be one of five that have all been given to me by my employers.
Originally Posted by The Real Slim Shady
Anyone who rates their job on the quality of the food is either a complete banker or not worth the bandwidth
Yeah, right on. I mean, who brings crew food into a debate about terms and conditions anyway?
Originally Posted by The Real Slim Shady (earlier on)
Crew food......
Originally Posted by Slim Shakey
Barney, don't give a toss.
Ten West. Just for you http://www.yahoofreak.com/animated%2...ink%20cola.gif |
:ok: You could have strung that out a bit longer though. It was just getting good! ;)
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Last time I checked Slim, March wasn't in the summer holidays, let alone summer! - Point well made! As for 'certain colleagues' getting Aug and Sept off, how are the base TRE's and Cpts doing these days. Either that or they were BRK guys who don't get paid anyway! That's all I can be bothered with, I'm off to bed. 4 days off, woo-hoo!!! |
Ah just leave it Flintstone, some people (like The Real Slim Shady) just LOVE their leprechaun pimp! ;)
I would say it usually happens to people with low self esteem and/or a limited view of what other jobs are out there. In the land of the blind, one eye is king, that sort of stuff. They are the prostitutes of aviation and they think they are getting a good deal while their pimp has become filthy rich. How dumb can one be...? :ugh: Just look at them: walking around the terminal building wearing a high viz, backpack for the sandwiches and empty bottle under their arm to be filled up in the crew room. Take away the four stripes and you might mistake them for the guy driving the bus to the parking lot! :8 |
Do you know, I havent come on pprune for ages and but this morning came across this thread.
What a great laugh and what a complete knob Slim has made out of himself! I must remember to read his threads in future - for entertainment value rather than factual content, obviously! Nice one Flintstone! :D :D :D |
What you've done here is make a bit of an tw@t of yourself really, haven't you? X-Ray made the rather poor assumption that I work for BA and you followed it without checking. You made smartarse comments, ignored my hints because you were target fixated and have really confirmed your own bias that airlines, RYR and buying your way in is the only way to go. :D |
I know it was off topic but it made me laugh. As for Flintstone going begging to Slim for a job it's more likely to be the other way round. Not for nothing are airline crew discovering the delights of the bizjet world.
Probably the cous cous. |
Desk-Pilot
was it 14kts down the strip or was it crosswind so as to put it inside 10kts? I would like to mention that we are not under those kinds of commercial pressures to save time and money, that if it does happen is the flight crews choice, and probably the captain trying to get higer on the fuel saving board I would say as the F/O's dont get letters for that, but its a team effort up there and only one has to say lets do the full approch and i would say 9999 out of a 10000 in Ryanair do (yes it should be all 10000 but its the same everywhere, someone is always trying to save time and be a bit of a cowboy, FR would not thank the flight crew if it was out of limits they would sack or demote in a heartbeat! IMO |
MOL should just watch out , on one hand pay freeze on the other hand announcing 3euro seats because of the 400million profit they made. Now thats really a slap into the face of the employee...:ugh: |
Desk Pilot
Im not sure where your going with photocopied Jepp plates and FMC?? Never been an issue for me?? News in the last hour is bmi baby to chop around 50 x 737 drivers. I am very sorry for them and have friends there. All the best guys and gals, good luck. So with that as echoed by other posters the issue is one of supply and demand in the current economy. I bet those losing their jobs at baby in the next few weeks would have no problem feeding and watering themselves to remain employed at this moment in time. I wasn't in Bergerac so i cant comment on the stuation. If i remember correctly from the airport brief the procedure you describe is not approved for RYR operations but the std circling procedure is. All the RYR Pilots I know and work with operate with caution to all airports in France given the Limoges incident last year and the poor standard of ATC at regional airports, VFR traffic etc. The only pressure I feel from Management is to operate within SOP's and as you know in RYR they are comprehensive - I'm happy with that. As regards the crew in Bergerac if there were any exceedances the Captain can expect a call from the On Board Flight Data monitoring people to explain the situation at the time. If your doing something wrong the company will find out and you will face judgement day (as in any airline) - which in this case is tea WITHOUT the biscuits in Dublin!!! |
Actually Flintstone, I really don't give a toss. About you or your sycophants and what a bunch of boneheads you are.
I really don't care whether you like FR or not, and as for your pictures, you may wish to note that the pilot normally sits in the little room at the front! With baby losing jobs and BA cabin crew pushing towards striking, VS looking at cutbacks and so on ad infinitum, the security FR offers to people who have mortgages, kids and bills to pay is worth more than a 90p packet of Ainsley Harriot cous cous! And smartar8e, the reason I brought crew food in to the discussion, is becasue HMRC are now looking to tax that " benefit": so you with your caviar and blinis might just find yourself being hit with a bigger tax bill than the FR pilot with his own sandwich. Ask how happy the easyJet crews are with their flight pay being taxed and the company are with a huge hike in NI contributions: really useful in a recession. Real world, real problems for real people. |
Doug
Just look at them: walking around the terminal building wearing a high viz, backpack for the sandwiches and empty bottle under their arm to be filled up in the crew room. Take away the four stripes and you might mistake them for the guy driving the bus to the parking lot! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/nerd.gif Haha what a laugh. |
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
Actually Flintstone, I really don't give a toss.
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
About you or your sycophants and what a bunch of boneheads you are.
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
I really don't care whether you like FR or not, and as for your pictures, you may wish to note that the pilot normally sits in the little room at the front!
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
worth more than a 90p packet of Ainsley Harriot cous cous!
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
And smartar8e, the reason I brought crew food in to the discussion, is becasue HMRC are now looking to tax that " benefit": so you with your caviar and blinis might just find yourself being hit with a bigger tax bill than the FR pilot with his own sandwich.
Did I mention we also get a tax-free per diem? Doesn't that just p1ss you off? We get paid to eat (very good) free food.
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
Ask how happy the easyJet crews are with their flight pay being taxed and the company are with a huge hike in NI contributions: really useful in a recession.
Originally Posted by Slim Shady
Real world, real problems for real people.
Note to any wannabees not yet driven away by Slim's spittle-laden posts, the point I'm making here is that buying a job isn't the only way to go. With patience, planning and some common sense you can avoid the party line being spouted by Slim and his ilk and find yourself a job where you are still respected, looked after and treated like a professional human being. Slim on the other hand seems hell bent on showing what you'll end up with if you buy in to RYR. "In a war of wits I find it best to partake armed" (Fodas Curreilo - 1728-1832) |
:mad: me, why are we getting so aggravated and slagging off the usual suspects.... FR Pilots?
No-one, but no-one in our industry has had any clout at all this year with which to improve terms and conditions. The fact that FR are profitable and seek to shaft their employees is sad, but hardly news. I was working for legacy airlines for 10 years in the RHS. I never had a single opportunity (other than to fly different types without paying for a rating) to do anything other than be an FO. Not because I was turned down for extra roles, but rather that they just didn't exist for FO's. Guess what, I took the money, joined an expanding loco. Got Command immediately on joining (and I mean immediately) and am wondering what jobs to apply for within the organisation next. Yes, the glamour's not there, but the pay is every month. The LHS time builds up and the opportunities for personal advancement are, quite honestly, amazing, if you want to apply. Crew food, hi vis jackets, car park passes, rayban glasses, big pensions... the list goes on and on. Yes, nice to have, but sadly long ago gone from our industry. What counts now is staying employed. And looking after your commitments to your family.... and the banks. |
http://www.pragmaticcso.com/Images/deep-hole.jpg
Slim? Slim?! You down there? Give it up mate! Waaaayyyy off thread now but just what the doctor ordered in these dark times. Thanks for the entertainment folks. |
Top entertainment Flint thanks a bunch,:ok:;)
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I would just like to say a big thank you, to Flintstone and Slim, for giving me a good laugh yesterday and today. As this thread is now probably drawing to a close, can I just say how much I am looking forward to the next instalment on a new thread.
Best entertainment for a long time.:D |
some here are bitter about T&Cs, some at the bottom of seniority lists are scared about their jobs this winter, understandably. that said, theres nothing more unappealing and pathetic than the gang mentality in supposed grown-ups. this is the internet however - you could genuinely all be ten year old girls i guess.
if you trained in the 1970's, when type ratings were funded by airlines (and taxpayers), good for you. if you finish your training now, the world has changed - you can apply to air taxi operators all you like, you can be willing to do it the supposedly traditional way and work your way up, but there are no jobs to be had, except by funding extra training (yeah, there will always be one or two exceptions, before somebody says 'i've got a mate who... blah blah' - they are extremely few in number, believe me. the problem here is that some of you compare FR T&Cs and BOAC T&Cs and say oh isnt it terrible, but that comparison is flawed and irrelevant. for the guys coming into the industry NOW and joining FR, BOAC is long gone - what they are doing is comparing the job they used to have, with the FR one and i gotta tell you guys - FR wins by a country mile. I earn almost twice as much, i do less work (albeit some quite long indvidual days) and i get to fly lots, something i dreamed of since i started flying with the air cadets donkys years ago. my mate at BA spent sunstantially more money on his integrated training than i did on my modular (even including my type rating), he's in the same situation. my mate at flybe got a free type rating but earns a lot less than me (i broke even on the type rating cost ages ago, so now i'm moving ahead of him financially), my mate who became an instructor might lose his job, earns peanuts. if everyone is somehow wrong to go to FR, please let us know were the better alternatives are. we arent different to you, we're just human beings trying to make the best of our short time on this earth and take sensible decisions - if a better path exists, we would all be mad not to take it.. But cut the holier than thou stuff because it genuinely just makes you sound stupid. |
You've answered your own question there AB. Keep buying the jobs and the T&C's will continue to decline, it's like turkeys voting for christmas.
I've spent the better part of two decades telling people not to. Some listened, many didn't and now we have this disgusting situation where those that went before are smiling as they draw the ladder up behind them. Make no bones about it, if you bought your way in you contributed to the state of things. It's irrefutable. What I will continue to do is help, where I can, those determined to buck this odious little system and work their way up. Fortunately their mindset pre-disposes them to GA and bizjets where we're still happy to watch each others backs as opposed to planting knives in them. |
So it now seems some want decreasing t&c's!
outdated 1980's style pay agreements that don't belong in this era? One way for some, another for others! Yeah I paid for a type rating but hey, those who went to excel, jet 2, easyjet, bmibaby etc who paid for theirs to an extent so I don’t think paying for the rating is the issue and so should be kept out the whole t&c debate. I've been in a holdpool for over 2 years for one of these mystical paid for type ratings. Still waiting. FR pays my bills and allows me to look after my family and believe it or not, even with a paid for type rating in the very very slow cooker it was the perhaps one of my better decisions as I enjoy my work. Just a shame I need to make my own lunch but for some I guess that’s how mundane their life has really got that they can no longer do it! If things don’t improve in FR after this downturn I may look to go elsewhere but as stated they are the only boys in town and as MOL says, "I’d love the BA job........." 6000+ move to biz jets and the decreasing t&c debate starts all over again! As for the whole no balls, for those that do stand up you still kick them down, for those that cant stand up you still kick them down! I await the abuse and prob wont reply kempus |
Only the other day I witnessed a Ryanair 737-800 take a 14kt tailwind into Bergerac ILS 28 after we'd landed on 10 via a procedure. That runway is not a long one if you follow the glide. That's outside our tailwind limits and I fly a bloody Dash 8. Even the tower queried it a couple of times but then I guess you boys saved time and fuel so MOL saved money to spend on racehorses. We did things the long way round and cost our company money but in airmanship terms ours was the correct decision. if the freq wasnt blocked I would of said something. yes indeed, STUPID! |
I don’t think paying for the rating is the issue and so should be kept out the whole t&c debate. In many cases train drivers are in a better position than airline pilots are now. Paid during training and training paid for; in an industry where those individuals are safety critical employees that is reasonable and an essential investment in those employees. Why are pilots stupid enough to subsidise airlines out of their own pocket? It makes even less sense when that airline is hugely profitable. Do they need the charity? :ugh: Considering that pilots should be intelligent people who are required to work as a closely knit team it seems almost ironic that there are so many that are happy to screw their colleagues over for short term gain. Yes, Slim I am looking at you. I used to have alot of respect for you Slim, but working for RYR obviously has shown you in your true light, and good grief what a nasty, petty chap you come across as - you really are living the RYR dream aren't you? If this is the attitude you display in public (and don't forget we know who you work for) and are a representative of your employer here whether you like it or not. If this is how senior aircrew behave at RYR, I am NEVER going to entrust the safety of myself and my family to your company ever again. So, well done, Slim, you have just lost your company at least 12 customers. :D Just in case anyone missed this gem on another forum...it is worth reading; A friend of mine told me about a dinner he went to where there was an advisor in economics to the "brightly coloured" airline board, (a social accident - he did not know him before or fix it up, his friends he went with did). He told me that this guy was fascinating. His contempt for pilots knew no bounds and he expounded gleefully on the summer-only contracts he forsaw and the increasing contractorisation of piloting overall, where contractors bid for the work the brand generated and the lowest cost base won. He looked whistfully at Eastern Europe as a great source of cheap pilots and said supply easily exceeded demand for the forseeable future. His view was that flying an airliner was a slightly more sophisticated train driver style job and said, bluntly, that some train drivers now earned more than pilots, which was as it should be in his view, especially for FO's who he viewed as a legal requirement but otherwise woefully overpaid for their contribution. This, he predicted would change rapidly and so, it seems, is the case at the brightly coloured airline, as elsewhere. He admitted, apparently, that airlines were a pretty cosy club through the various trade bodies they belong to and that they all got together to discuss areas of mutual interest like overhead - particularly staff costs. The oil price makes an airline a price taker but salaries are where they can be a price maker, he said, and that they were all determined to drive the status and salaries of piloting through the floor. It was, he felt, a ridiclous "career" to enter as the specialisation was so narrow and the industry itself so vulnerable to external shocks that it was virtually to condemn oneself to a job where opportunities were increasingly limited and salaries shrinking in real terms every year and with little chance to move outside it at a corporate level unless to manage within it, where the focus would inevitably be on who could deliver the cheapest cost base given the total commoditisation of the industry product. That meant being the best at screwing down the earnings of your own peer group. He felt that this was all fair game and that the market was so easy to rig against pilots come any sign of a downturn in the economy that becoming one was the height of folly, but that, never-the-less, plenty of people kept applying so there was little need to adjust the career to attract the best, they would take what they got. Safety cut little ice because, as he put it, "you lot all want to get home to your families at the end of your overpaid day, so the passengers will be fine too." |
Nice of you to liken the proffession to that of train driver! Bring the oppertunity to bring things down further! According to pprune the whole pay for type rating thing is FR's fault which I dont see but you all come on here acting if it was. Lets start a thread for every airline thats has an SSTR so we can have a go individually!
Considering that pilots should be intelligent people who are required to work as a closely knit team it seems almost ironic that there are so many that are happy to screw their colleagues over for short term gain. Oh and lets not forget about the friend of a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend......... |
Kempus.
If you think G-AWKZ is the first to compare you to a train driver then I'm afraid you've not been paying attention. It was said years ago except most people doing it use 'bus driver' as a comparison. I'm all for free speech and I'm sure the moderators wouldn't object to a thread criticising all those companies charging for TR's so go ahead, start it up and I'll be one of the first to join in. You seem surprised that RYR come in for so much criticism compared to (say) EZY or others but frankly I find that hard to believe. I'll go with the trolling (if that's what it is) and explain. MOL and his company treat their employees and customers with such utter contempt they attract the loathing of others. Do the other companies paint their aircraft with idiotic messages? Do they hide their costs? Which airline has the most complaints upheld against it for misrepresentation in their advertising? Which CEO refers to his customers as "bastards"? Hope this clarifies. |
Further to Flintstone, who describes his pilots as 'aerosexuals'...:ugh:
Good businessman, bad employer of people who fly his most valuable assets! R1975 |
Ryanair taking off on a Runway long enough for an A340:ooh: Thats got to be a first:ok:
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Kempus,
You are not really getting it are you? Train drivers are professionals who are responsible for the safe conduct of transporting the paying public safely from point A to point B. I know that EWS and Virgin are paying some of their drivers in excess of GBP60,000 p/a (with overtime on top). As qualified professional pilots, we have taken responsibility for the initial training risk to the tune of 45-75,000 pounds. Why is it unreasonable to expect a commercial organisation to accept a training risk after being selected by their own training organisation (interview, sim ride, trick-cylist testing etc)? Two of the most profitable airlines in Europe are at the forefront of charging for type ratings, so the slim profit margins argument doesnt really stand up on that score. Trying to compare pilots with doctors, lawyers or dentists isn't really vaild IMHO. If they f@ck up, the worst they can do is kill one person at a time. It took Harold Shipman 20 years to kill the same number of people that a 737 could kill. Consider the following responsibilities:
My God, you should have some more self respect for what you have achieved & the responsibilities you carry and not baring your arse and bending over to the corporate airline monster. Despite all the soul searching and valid points generated by this and other threads about the rights and wrongs about buying type ratings, its not going to change anything. People have a passion for flying, at least I know I do. Airlines know this and are willing to make (ab)use of this fact. They are abusing their position of power and no one is stopping them. It is valid to be comparing other safety critical professionals like train drivers or nuclear power station control room staff. As far as I am aware they don't need to pay for any training. |
Still don't give a toss Barney.
FR are still expanding: jobs are still available. Other companies are suffering in the recession and others have simply vanished. People have bills to pay: FR pay on time, early at Xmas, and a comfortable sum. Nice people, nice airplanes, home every night, best roster in the business. The guys from baby who will be made redundant would bite your arm off your nice bizjet job but I guess your employer isn't taking on 400+ crews in the next 2 and bit years. The whole issue, in a nutshell, is about security: the guys joining FR and paying for a rating, all cadets incidentally as any DECs are already rated ( and made redundant usually by some other carrier). Their peers who found the plugs pulled from thier holding pools will never catch them up in terms of earnings even accounting for the cost of the TR. 5 years from cadet to command is possible in FR if you are good enough: your hang on and wait for a paid TR, and a huge bond, crew probably won't get a job for 2, maybe 3 years. Then 14 or 15 years RHS before they get a command, whilst your FR cadet has been earning all the time and paying back his training and TR. It is all about practicality. |
You've the best roster in the business? It stinks compared to easyJets 5453.
Nice people? Are you on drugs? WWW |
the guys joining FR and paying for a rating hang on and wait for a paid TR, and a huge bond With "friends" like you TRSS, pilots really do not need enemies. :( |
You know, you lot are never happy.
If FR introduced a bonding scheme you would whinge about that, even tough you aren't in the company. If FR stopped recruiting holders of UK CAA licences you would whinge about that. If they stopped recruiting holders of French DGAC licences etc etc ad nauseam. It is just because you don't like the MOL business plan. WWW, I think that my 5/4 beats my mate's LGW based easyjet 319 captains's roster hands down: I'm not working max duty days in an airline that that skimps on fuel to the extent that if you go around it's a diversion! I'm not under pressure to go into discretion. I don't get snotty emails from management day after day after day. I don't work with CTC or any other TC cadets working for nowt on "contracts" putting FOs out of work. |
Originally Posted by The Real Slim Shady
Still don't give a toss Barney.
You really are a child, aren't you? You made a total @rse of yourself. You're the laughing stock of this thread. No, the forum. Nay, the site. What next? Fingers in the ears and 'Lalalalala, I'm not listening'? http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k8...ns/tantrum.gif Let me guess. You went in to work today and told everyone how the nasty people on a website were being mean to you. One of your fellow ryanistas took you aside and together you hatched a plot to come on here and show them. What you'd do, right? What you'd do (and this will really show them, snigger) is come back on here and write out how great Ryanair are and how well they treat their employees (don't say 'contractors', ok? Otherwise we'll get our 'MOL's Special Person' badges taken away). That was it wasn't it? That's what you did. That's your master plan to reingratiate* yourself with The Pikey and his cronies. It's so obvious we're all laughing again :E Edit: Roster. I'll see your roster and raise you mine. Mine is week on/week off, during a week on I'll work an average of four days. On top of that I get 28 working days leave which also attract 'wraparound' days so if I use five days leave I get nine days off. Work it right and that's 48 days or nearasdammit seven weeks paid leave a year. What shall we talk about next Slim? This is fun. * I may have just invented that word. |
Slim,
Does this really need to be spelt out to you? On second thoughts, no. It is pointless, I would be farting against thunder. You have demonstrated what Ryanair's attitude is, and your antics on this thread has lost your company 12 customers. |
Oh jeez you guys crack me up: 12 customers out of 62 million.
Go pay easy prices. Go pay baby prices. Flintstone, living in the stone age: passed over by airline after airline so takes a job kissing ass, humping bags and serving food and drinks. So sad. Did Ryanair turn you down because you couldn't pass the sim? I'll pass your comments about tax free per diems and your food to HMRC: they can find out who you are and who you work for and when you are in UK airspace. And just for good measure your passengers can pay punitive tax on their charter: you approve of level playing fields, don't you. |
Slim Shandy, you deserve Ryanair and Ryanair deserves you.
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Sooooooo funny, youre all so quick to condemn the guy but youre the ones who took the bait :D
Kids in a playground!!! I dunt fly for Fryinair. |
Fabulous thread!
Slim Shandy, please keep it going, but dont forget to leave 2 mins behind the departing heavy next time. Or is that allowed in 'your' airline? |
Slim,
You have made a prize wally out of yourself. I thought flying taught us all to recognize mistakes, correct where able and mitigate where not - you sunshine just kept on diggin'. Oh how I bet you wish you could rewind time - on this thread I mean, afterall you sound really happy how things have panned out career wise. Still those of us with our self respect intact shouldn't laugh or be at all surprised - afterall foregoing your dignity, generally acting like a mug and sinking to any new low to earn a buck seems to be contagious at Ryanair...... http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/m...h_1318268i.jpg Good luck all. Brody |
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