Can someone please enlighten me as to how Ryanair's Ts&Cs differ from other LoCos such as Whizz or Easyjet? I'm not picking a fight, I just think it worthwhile highlighting the different ways airlines treat their staff.

With RYR being PR kings. The 100 CPTs and 160 FOs leaving RYR employed are probably correct. Then about 300 self employed pilots....

IALPA are claiming more than 700 total. This seems fair more accurate from even a brief headcount in any one base.

Ryanair Slots Question
 

So FR Fly three times a day GLA to STN,can someone else step in and use these slots ie easyjet or are these FR slots to use only?

Correct me if I'm wrong but neither GLA or STN have a slot system.

They didn’t claim anything they published figure given to the SEC in the states by Ryanair themselves

Which might work until a significant number of union members back industrial action and strike, leaving a huge shortfall of pilots which MOL couldn’t hope to cover in the short term, no? The CAA and media getting heavy at the same time might force him to revisit that attitude.

English law (not sure on Irish law) protects you from being dismissed on a properly balloted strike

German news tv-channel n-tv just (1pm GMT+1) reported the last round of flight cancellations. Among them the route Köln-Berlin (Schönefeld) will be cancelled. Which according to n-tv is one of the main used and very popular routes in Germany so that raised some eyebrows!
N-TV also clearly stated that the flight cancellations are caused by a lack of pilots and that pilots at RYR are dissatisfied with their working conditions.
They also quoted a source about a rumor that claims that RYR cancelled Köln-Berlin Schönefeld because they aim for Berlin Tegel and want to change their destination from Berlin Schönefeld to Tegel.

The lack of pilots at RYR due to working conditions are reported in different german news media now because some started to investigate the reasons for the flight cancellations.

CAA definitely getting stroppy

Ryanair law breach leaves UK regulator CAA 'furious' - BBC News

This was quite early on the BBC TV lunchtime news. I switched on at 1305 in the middle of the item, so missed a bit (edit: headine repeat at 1320 - Ryanair has been threatened with legal action, for failing to inform customers of their rights); @1333 for persistently misleading customers about their rights). Then Simon Gompertz encouraging people to find out things, and not necessarily be fobbed off with a simple refund if the airline is obliged to rebook people on another carrier.

IMO the pilot issue won't disappear, industrial action or no industrial action, recession or no recession.

However, the way I see it, Ryanair management is having to fight on too many fronts right now. They have the customers, regulator, pilots and even the investors to appease. They are distracted by their own admission; they will shelve their Alitalia and Air Berlin aspirations.

The management are on the back foot, so yes, now is a great opportunity for the pilots to seek improvements to T&Cs. I'm sure there is plenty of chatter behind the scenes.

After 31 pages of this fiasco on PPrune, I find it amazing that nobody has yet suggested that managerial heads should roll, over this situation that was created by them in the first place.

Maybe it is just a marketing ploy... ' Even bad publicity is still good publicity', and if you are in the know, maybe a good time to sell shares, then buy them back when the market falls.

Market trends can be predictable when you know what to look for.. Before the Channel Tunnel was built, C.T. shares would double in price every time Margaret Thatcher went to talk to the French President, and she went about 3 times in the three years before the construction began...

Moving functions to other chiefs is the Ryanair quick way of rolling heads at the top. At the moment they need more bosses to handle events, not less. Changes will happen on the quiet much later.

Heads have begun rolling today, Mick Hickey and John Clear

FFS !
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...lled-1.3236895
462 more flights cancelled, what the http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/censored.gif is going on ?

Good lord the company is getting a hammering on Facebook.

Hopefully the not so smug :mad: will now realise there's a limit to how much you can cheapen this industry (and use employees to subsidise the cost of travel for the flying public). He and his lackeys have done it to the point of unsustainability by offering cheap flights that simply cannot be flown at cheap cost! Other airline management: Kindly take note!

I see the CAA are making loud noises about RYR and its (non) handling of cancelled flight compensation!
What happened to the investigation of multiple wx minima busts at Stansted a while back ?
Am I right in thinking RYR has flown into a perfect storm
I) changes to leave year
II) Massive hemorrhaging of crew
III) Closer authority scrutiny of paper rotas against reality, implied dependence on discretionary time, delays with baggage, taxi times, weather etc.
RYR spin machine is concentrating on I) to deflect public and press scrutiny from the other two?
Your time and trouble appreciated.

Hahahahaha. You mean they joined many months ago but were delayed throughout the type rating because Ryanair didn't care. Now they pulled their finger out and got the management pilots out of their offices to train them themselves for some PR!

They're perfectly happy to delay a new guy on zero pay, even when he complains he is under extreme financial pressure and cant afford accomadation. But the moment a media opportunity arises it all systems are go...

I am very happy that CAA is making is (finally) very clear to RYR that they need to meet their obligations with regards to their paying pax as (almost) all the other airlines do.
The "business-model" of RYR thus seem to come to its term.

Is this the new " I have enough pilots"?

And how many left in the time it took to train them?

I have mostly always been happy with ryr when things work out, on time, efficient and cheap. However when things go wrong it goes pear shape so quickly and the attitude of customer service is horrendous.

Friends have booked flights for visit and specifically chose a more expensive airline to ensure it would depart.

If I was booking a flight today I would avoid ryr and pay more.

It’s going to end in tears if they do not sort it out quickly.

CAA criticism still the first story on the BBC 6 o'clock news

Journalist quoted some feedback people have had from Ryanair

Someone said on the RyanairCS online chat that, as per the CAA letter, the airline was obliged to put them with another carrier. RyanairCS response: no I'm not.

However the Commissioner for Aviation Regulation in the Republic Cathy Mannion maintains maintains that EU regulations about treatment of passengers who have their flights cancelled is “open to interpretation.”
The British regulator (CAA’s) position is that under EU regulations Ryanair is required to use other airlines to bring people home if their flight is cancelled.
However the issue of enforcement is open to interpretation, she told RTÉ’s Today with Sean O’Rourke show. “Our position is that we can encourage them, but we cannot require them to do so,” she said.

What an Irish coincidence.

Ms Mannion said she said she also had drawn Ryanair’s attention to their “care and assistance” obligations. “We want to ensure that customers get the correct information.”
“We just deal with customers’ rights.”

It's pity she doesn't seem as concerned with the 'workers' rights'.

There were comments from Pruners previously suggesting the UK government did not have the jurisdiction to intervene in the employment structures of RYR as it was an Irish based company, even though many workers are British & based in UK. Interesting that the UK Aviation minister Lord Callahan is getting involved.

"Ryanair is also under pressure from Britain’s aviation minister Lord Callanan who contacted chief executive Michael O’Leary after the airline announced a new wave of cancellations.
Lord Callanan said: “I am extremely concerned that Ryanair is cancelling more flights and I have made clear my disappointment about the service many of their customers are receiving."

Well, with that and the UK CAA having it tuppence-worth, about the rights of UK passengers, why not also have a spout about the rights of UK workers. If they have jurisdiction over one group then why not the other?

Pilots are lucky people. They have good health, good education and, one way or another.....access to vocational training. What rights do these workers want ?

Liked the Sky reporter catching out a load of new F/O's with the Pilot Managers outside HQ today - a hasty retreat

GuardianMan Here is a "pointer". Next time O'Leary is questioned let him explain the difference between flying hours and the Duty Hours required to achieve them. Let him explain what is counted and more importantly what is NOT counted towards the legal total limits. It may well be that the Duty Hours limits are being breached rather than the actual flying hours? Every interview I have seen of him the interviewer lets him get away with his usual parroted 18 hour a week therefore there can never be fatigue.

On the Irish main-evening news today at 6pm. Ryr stocks are DOWN 3.5% today alone. A "Main mover" on the stock market.

No pilot shortage?
So: RYR CANNOT get through the last 6 weeks of summer 2017 due to lack of pilots and the lack of ability / man power to train up cadets, upgrade suitable FO's to captain, upgrade SFIs to TRIs', get base-checks completed... LET ALONE have the training space to give >4,000 pilots their 6-monthly LPC/OPC!!!

So o'LIARy parks a/c and i'm sure will try to defer new a/c deliveries to COVER UP this massive pilot shortage which is now 20-years in the making , and, which is an ordeal of gross neglect, disregard and dismissive attitude and disgusting disrespect towards its front-line critical staff!

And, in 5 weeks time when "summer" ends, mid-term break will be upon us, Halloween break, and the 6 weeks of the Christmas travel rush! - Where will the pilot numbers come from to cover this ? How many more contractors and permanent employee pilots will have departed or will be serving their 3-month notice by then!

Shamrock (Aer Lingus) are about to hire 200 first officers...Any self-respecting FO will do himself and the pilot body a massive favour by pulling out ALL the stops to get into a respectful Airline who sees their pilots and cabin crew as "assets" - not "overpaid underworked peacocks and lazy bus drivers".. Norwegian, WOW, Middle Eastern and Far Eastern carriers will keep taking too on better conditions.

I hope O'LIARy, David OBrien , :mad:Eddie Wilson and the other poisons to aviation are kicked so bloody far out of the airline business they will never get within a thousand miles of an airline again!

THATS MY HOPE & DREAM for this horrific ordeal - if it is to come to an end in favour of a respectful airline industry we all dreamed of being part of one day.

NEVER forget what O'LIARy, David OBrien , :mad:Eddie Wilson did to all those fabulous men and women captains and first officers and cabin crew and engineers who were based in Shannon in 2009 and 2010 who got screamed at, lambasted, and insulted in a Conference Room at Shannon Airport by said managers, and who disgustingly screwed over all the pilots and cabin crew, and engineers.

NEVER forget what happened in Neiderhein also in a similar manner at that same time where captains and first officers alike were told to "Take it or leave it" regarding the NRN base being decimated by Ryanair management for RYR's OWN COMMERCIAL GREED just because Ryanair management did not get what they wanted from the National Governments of the time..
The €20,000-€30,000 pay cuts and base-changes FORCED upon those pilots was abhorrent.

The rot started long before that and has continued and continued since then.

When will it stop - when one way or another O'LIARy, David OBrien , :mad:Eddie Wilson and their ilk - get out of their industry - not just Ryanair - one way or another.

20 new pilots . Or 20 old pilots visting a new base so new to the base?

EFI, There will be no forcing pprune to give your real name! I could guess it myself. :oh:

Instead of the passive aggressive threats, why not use your real name and say why he/she is wrong.

They would do well in North Korea with Kim ju whatever his name is.

suspend Ryanair AOC
 

perhaps the CAA should make noises that the management snafu's and coverups and outright obfuscation revealed by this fiasco raise the idea in their mind that Ryanair may not be a fit enough organisation to hold an AOC...

There is a certain minimum level of management integrity and competence required to operate an airline, and surely nobody is too big to be allowed to fail?

I agree 100%. If the director declared that OLeary's public comments create doubt as to his suitability to hold a senior fit and proper person role within the Industry it would be a start.
Just his press conference statements alone display a lack of the maturity and balance required to hold a senior role.

The curious issue about their future business plan is;
RYR need to expand continually to survive. They are like fish; keep swimming. In the next 12 months they will receive 50 new a/c. I do not know the net gain from those hulls, but significant. They then say they will operate less a/c than planned and attempt to increase their training program. All this would suggest they will have a/c parked up due to a business plan to not utilise all a/c, even next summer. This appears to be a slowing down of their expansion. It is also dubious if they will be able to crew up all the a/c they plan to fly at the start of summer.
RYR are making very certain & positive comments about the next 12 months operations; but they would wouldn't they. It seems very optimistic to make such comments unless they have had a plan in the pipeline for a few months and therefore knew this was coming. If so that raises a whole raft of questions. If these statements about the future have been cobbled together only in the past couple of weeks it suggests an outrageously amount of very smart work & ultra fast analysis or unhealthy wishful thinking.

Sober Lark,your mistaking EFI for me I think.

Spent many years in Ryanair, wanted to fly long haul so had to leave to chase that 'dream'.

High standard of training,engineering,roster is the best in the industry by far. Professional colleagues. Couldn't spend 30 years with them though.

The media make me laugh. Ryanair said that 250 pilots are joining quickly in the next few weeks. The media doesn't know but that is mainly type rating cadets (more then likely,don't know for sure). You can't fly without Captains,It doesn't matter how many cadets there are, (2500 on a waiting list?saw that number too).Media very unsophisticated so ryanair can say anything in a press conference and get away with it. The problem is selling too many flights online while misjudging the number of crew/legitimate awkward leave year.

Also Ryanair are almost always factually wrong with figures and information released in INFORMAL radio interviews/press conferences. But they are always correct DIRECTIONALLY. Thats all the public care about.The public are bored/dont understand facts,figures and numbers. For example if O leary says 5% of pilots leave each year (the real figure could be 7-10%) he gets away with that and the media let him away with it because its directionally accurate i,e Pilots are leaving. Same with saying 250 pilots are joining immediately. The real figure could be 200 mainly cadets. But the public just hear 'pilots joining'. Directionally correct and sounds good. In the eyes of the public,it passes the sniff test.I know it shouldn't but it does.

I was asked recently by a person outside the industry if there were lots of involuntary redundancies because ryanair are cancelling flights. Seriously,large members of the public think its a corporate downsizing decision because of all the bluster about pilots leaving, joining,no they can't have leave,yes they can have leave. Being directionally correct but factually wrong works with the public. They can't and don't play that game with analysts.

Not a nice airline but a great business. €50 million euro in costs - they would prefer not to have it due to there own poor corporate planning of manpower v aircraft but its peanuts. They are forecasting 1.4 - 1.45 billion net profit this year. The 50 million won't make that range change.

Buy the shares. Cheap

Pilots are revolting
 

What a disgusting site, a pain to read 4 lines hidden between a dozen low quality pictures about nothing.

Can you elaborate? Fixed pattern? Part time options etc?

This is the end of O' (not so) Leary (now are we?).

I completely agree with the comment above that the RYR machine can only survive if it keeps expanding. With the cost of everything rising, to keep the same economies of scale you have to become bigger.

Problem for MOL is you can only expand if people want to join AND stay. Offer ****ty contracts and treat people like dirt, and this is what happens. This is the darkest week in RYR history.