That just makes me :mad: sick to the pit of my stomach. When I worked in that quagmire of a so-called airline I witnessed young, new, bright cabin crew (male and female) from many different countries reduced to tears, talked down to, and basically ripped apart by disgusting bully base supervisors who's attitude can only be described as abhorrent!

It was VERY upsetting to watch.

This has been going on for long over a decade! And lets not fool ourselves here nor question this Daily Telegraph article - that article is 100% true and correct!

This sadistic, bullying culture doesn't come from within one RYR "base" - it comes form the top! The very top! From MOL - who has made all his profits from standing on the necks of crew - and all his other evil sheep at the top with him!

It's hard not to feel deep-seeded disdain for such a sick and twisted airline management culture!

THERE IS A MASSIVE RISK TO SAFETY HERE: As a captain it is my duty to absolutely ensure that all my crew FO, pursor and juniors are "on the ball", clewed in, focussed and know their stuff. And yet where is the certainty in knowing my crew are of sound mind and not distracted should an emergency evacuation be required, or if a rapid decompression occurred, on-board smoke, a fire, fumes, bomb threat... or any other non-normal situation - but all the cabin crew can think of is that viscious cowardly borderline "corporal punishment" they just received from some sick base supervisor who was given strict instructions from top management to do so! "Safety first" - gimme a :mad: break!

MOL has to go along with his twisted bullyboy cronies if any good is to be made of what is - at the moment - a nasty ass "airline".

Could try this form confidential reporting to the IAA. Maybe they have no choice but to act if people follow it up after the report.

https://www.iaa.ie/commercial-aviati...reporting-form

"Asked for a response, Ryanair said: “Ryanair cabin crew earn up to €40,000 p.a. and enjoy great terms and conditions including job security, a recently negotiated five year pay deal with guaranteed pay increases, a five-on, three-off roster (a bank holiday weekend every week), a legal max of 900 flight hours p.a. (just 18 hours per week), great sales commissions which further boosts pay, free training, sick pay and an annual uniform payment of up to €425. This is why we currently have a waiting list of over 3,000 young people who all hope to join Ryanair’s cabin crew team, at a time when other airlines and their unions are negotiating job cuts, pension cuts and pay cuts. We don’t comment on rumour or speculation especially when it originates from competitor airline unions.”

Ryanair Cabin Crew making £40.000 a year, and only working 18 hours a week, when are the authorities going to stand up to such lies being told?
When is someone going to challenge MOL and Ryanair when they talk such rubbish to the press?

I would like to say having watch some of MOL's press conferences, the journalists that are there seems to be equally clueless and gutless, as they just sit there and accept all his BS.

I have seen some journalists asking for people to get in touch with them, but I would say these people who are responsible for the news are equally incompetent as journalists.:ugh:

Envy and hate seem to be sentiments that are infecting the current Ryanair situation.

Envy? Envy of who?

I think it was MOL's comments about pilots rather than the original cancellations which will prove to be his Ratner moment.

That just show how little some knows about Ireland and the leader of Ryanair.
A missed pension is hardly going to bother a man who is, as close as make no difference, a billionaire and hovering around number 8 on the Sunday Times Irish rich list. He was one of the first in Ryanair to forego his final salary pension, years before he forced everyone else to follow suit. Besides, his pay is way below other comparable executives in similar scale positions.
His fortune was founded in the very early days when he negotiated a deal for a percentage of the profit with the Ryans. A deal that could not continue when Ryanair went public, and therefore was converted into a sizeable chunk of shares.
He is probably no longer in it for the money, but it does give him a powerbase and a platform where others reports/listens to/worries about his opinions and what he has to say. Maybe the time of enjoying that is coming to an end.

If RYR call people that are in sick liars, just as the Flu season starts that is smart.
And a safety hazard.
And deny them to DeadHead home.

So with the same logic they can not DH inbound to start a duty at the end of a cold. Super.
What is next? A stool sample if stomach problem, send by Company Mail!

That could end up with dirty money,,,,

How about we close that can of worms! ( and germs)

If FR cabin crew get paid so much how come every time there is a drop of snow flights get cancelled in their droves. Nothing operational just the fact the local busses are stuck / cancelled so the Cabin crew cannot get to work.
ODeary and spin go together

Bullying in the loco airline segment? Does this really go on?

Would the regulator NOT BE INTERESTED in this sort of thing? You mentioned it affects flight safety.

Surely if true there are laws against bullying?

:ugh:

There’s many laws against quite a number of things.

However this is what Andrew Haines, CAA’s CEO, thinks about FR and their legal obligations
https://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-response-to-Ryanair-consumer-commitments/

FR spend a humongous amount on legal costs and appear content to do so. The collateral damage of doing business their way.

Didn't FR spent some money and great effort to "trace" pprune posters for "defamation" ?
https://www.sundaypost.com/news/uk-n...safety-claims/

what was the outcome of that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsurmmelCC8

Omg, I cant help it loool
this interview was a few years go, in resume: pilots/cabin crew do not leave, they are very happy.

Ryanair get out of jail free card?
 

Will the failure of Monarch ease up the market for pilots and allow Ryanair to escape from the hole it has dug for itself?

Depends what the crew want to do there are tons of 737 and airbus jobs out there for experienced crew.

Even if they do decide to go across its 2-3 months before they will be through the training system and line training never mind signed off.

For those requiring a full type rating instead of differences training (which will be the majority) it will probably be longer. Currently they must a have 3-5 month backlog in training.

it certainly won't cure the problem overnight.

Monarch pilots for RYR!
 

Firstly , my condolences to our Monarch colleagues.
I lost my job to bankruptcy, and it is a personal disaster.

As far as this helping RYR it is negative.
Why?:
MON has 35 AC and max 450 pilots. All Airbus.
This slots nicely into Easy,Wizz Vueling SASneo AerLingus etc plus wourldwide.

At best 50 will go for RYR.
The other will go to RYRs competitors to slot right into MON abandoned routes that RYR normally would take in a heartbeat.

But they cant, no crew , plenty aircraft. Tough luck for RYR.
Good lock to all Monarch pilots.
The 737 is a model T Ford.
Stay on the Airbus.

I agree with that. :ok:

Monarch flights cancelled as airline ceases trading - BBC News

and then some talk about pilot shortage lol

You absolute :mad: What is there to laugh out loud about hundreds of pilots and others losing their jobs.

The 737 is the tractor of the aviation world and I think its widely accepted the Airbus is far more refined beast.

Only problem with Airbus it was built by engineers for engineers. Whereas Boeing built a plane for pilots.

"Greenlights". No laughing matter thats for sure been there.

Anyway good luck to the Monarch folk.

To be honest, who really cares how antiquated the 738 is compared to the Airbus, the Monarch guys and girls probably won't care either, all they will want is employment and a wage coming in for Christmas, be that on an Airbus, 738 or a Dash 8.

Grennlights, you probably didn't mean to laugh, maybe it's the irony of what's happened and the industry is still short of pilots, I don't know, but seriously, no need.

before insulting others, you should try to learn reading between lines.

Laugh was to people who keep claiming that there is a need in pilots...:ugh:

You decide the solution to a problem when you choose the person tasked to fix it. Setting the chief of personnel to sort out rostering is bound to lead to a manual solution with even more human resources, which there is no need for since the computerised rostering system has the ability of a nearly fully automated process provided you utilize all of it's features including long term requirements, analytics and crew holliday preference selection adjusted to availability.
Sometime companies that are in part highly regulated forget to adequately train the areas of the operation that is not. Internal training might in some cases be do the job, but one can't expect internal trainers to have full knowledge about all newly developed features in an outside sourced system without regular updates from the third party.

Please forgive SLF ignorance: could the poor Monarch aircrew be easily hoovered up by Ryanair?
If so, I suppose good for them but it could defuse the crisis, which would be a pity as crew fight for better conditions.

takes at least 3 months to induct someone if they don't have the type rating. That is if your training stream is empty. I suspect Ryanair's is backed up just now.

The other thing is most have airbus type ratings and there is no shortage of airbus jobs out there.

Thank you very much

MON = Airbus 320
FR = B 737
"easily" ?
NO

.....and there lies a problem. The public (MOL?) don't understand or even care what someone needs to do to sit in 1A or 1B. Surely an Airbus is exactly the same as a 737? They have a similar number of seats.

I was reading these comments in the DT recently. These are paragraphs quoted from 3 different journalists discussing the London dispute with Uber. It made me make comparisons with some discussion going within our industry, and make comparisons with the topics under discussion. It also made me wonder why the similarities in our industry are NOT in focus and being debated in public. First it was Sports Direct, now Uber; when will an airline be the focus of attention on similar issues?

“While not mentioned by TFL, and not mentioned within the regulator’s remit, Uber has received a lot of criticism for the way it treats its drivers, who are self-employed instead of Uber workers. Politicians have rounded on the company as an emblem of the ‘gig economy’ that does not guarantee work benefits or a steady income for drivers. (That matter has become the subject of its own legal battle.)”

“London’s black cab drivers, and all private hire drivers in UK, deserve a level playing field with Uber. They don’t have one currently.”

“Uber is no stranger to controversy, whether that be for the record of its founder or for where it pays its taxes and how it treats its workers. All these things are real challenges. It’s right for them to be tackled.”

“Cynics might also suggest that the objections of TLF are veiled. Might it be that although TLF’s objections focus on safety concerns, what it actually objects to – and what the powerful trade union lobby who speak for London’s black cab drivers object to – is the flood of private hire vehicles on the street of the capital.”

“Others, like the GMB union, attack Uber for supposedly exploiting its drivers. They argue that Uber drivers are denied basic workers’ rights, like sick-pay, holiday leave and minimum wage. But Uber drivers are free to work for other providers, they choose their own hours, and polled the majority said they preferred the maintaining flexibility to having additional workers’ rights.”

The journalists also declared their own philosophy that Uber gave customers a choice; that it allowed free-wheeling entrepreneurship and markets forces to be in play; encouraged investment into job creation and broke closed shop cartels. i.e. if the customer benefited from lower prices and reasonable safe standards then all was right with the world.
The question of a how to create a level playing field, both in complying with the same regulations and workers’ rights, was not answered. They all seemed to come down on the side of free market business and passenger choice triumphed over basic employment conditions.

Of course we know that passenger choice trades off risk for cheapness, but, hey-ho, who gives a :mad: until it hits the fan?.

My ar*e is seriously concerned!

As SLF I want a happy captain, a happy FO, and a happy cabin crew and am totally prepared to pay for it.

So which airline do I patronise in future please?

How about Flybe?

If this was a topic that had merit, then someone sufficiently concerned would surely provide this information to the public.

One can only assume either there is not that level of concern, so no-one has spoken out; the respective unions do not feel the need to speak out; the regulator is satisfied there is 'no associated risk to flight safety' (as the parrot said); and in any case, the public are not interested / do not care.

Cheap chocolates are tempting and very tasty.

Cheap flight tickets are too good to miss out on. Many people I know fly exclusively with one loco airline, as they know they will pay rock bottom fares - they do not care about the current situation; they do not care they always get back at 3 AM, etc, etc.

Who cares how they can possibly do it so cheaply, members of the public?

For what it is worth, although the Monarch demise is extremely unpleasant to those associated with it, I do not believe unemployment will be their lot for long. The overwhelming majority of those pilots will pick up other jobs very quickly indeed. Good luck to them all.

pilots will be fine...

Please remember the back office types as well though

Although Bromley and Luton shouldn't be to bad to pick up more work.

I sow that Virgin, Aer Lingus and EasyJet are already offering fast track entry to Monarch's pilots and cabin crew, which means MOL won't be able to dig himself out just yet.

Does anyone have any news about the plans of the FR pilots and cabin crew? Are they planning a surprise for MOL or did they bend over and took up their :mad: like they had for years?

That was really good to see today. Really hope all those crew get re-employed as soon as possible and very refreshing to see some kindness and compassion in an industry usually full of sharks. :ok:

If you're eferring to the compassion shown by the comments on this board, I agree. If however you see the quick scooping up of the jobless pilots and crew as compassion, don't be fooled. It has nothing to do with compassion and most with a (beginning) pilot shortage in those other companies.
And what is better to scoop up recently fired crew who are current, have experience, need less/little trainigng and, but that is speculation, are eager to join and might not negotiate the best deal just to be able to pay the morgage again?

Fortunately it works out for both this time, assuming they do get hired there.

Genuine question about the EI- Irish registry argument where staff pay less social tax than those employed locally (in a chocolate context)

If someone would buy a EI registered airframe, park it on a airport on the continent, buy the necessary equipment for making chocolate onboard and employ a great chocolatier and sell the product locally. Would you pay the going rate for the social in that case or do you still enjoy the EI-discount ?

You'd pay as little tax as you could and you'd charge loads for crap chocolates, of course.

The chocolates would be absolute ****e and you'd overcharge for the crap. That's the business model and it works. That's why he's a billionaire and you're not.