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-   -   Norwegian B787 - LGW based (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/558123-norwegian-b787-lgw-based.html)

C_Star 2nd May 2015 12:24

Thanks Boeing Operator:ok:

What I wanted to know was if the RCA's were there to:
- keep the seat warm during cruise, or
- get WB/LH experience quickly and upgrade to the full CA...

Seems it's the latter...

Boeing operator 2nd May 2015 12:32


You normally have 24 hours on all trips. That is, check-in on a Monday LGW-LAX, 24 hours stop (effectively like 20 hours in the hotel), flight back normally to Scandinavia and position to LGW on short haul same afternoon. 20 block hours in three working days.

Some trips have two nights' stop, rarely three nights.


RCA is a full captain in long haul. No difference in training or so. However, you are appointed as RCA. You sit in the LHS only above 20,000 ft, otherwise you function as a FO. The one that needs the landing is PF, so the RCA is not only the third guy. When you upgrade to "real" CPT, it's only a quick refresher.

C_Star 2nd May 2015 12:36

@B O

How about the upgrade process from RCA to CA, are there any interviews/assesments/command boards etc. involved, or is it 'automatic', based on experience and seniority?

Boeing operator 2nd May 2015 12:36


Sometimes when you get to Scandinavia, you have one night there, go back to the US for another night and then back to LGW. 40 block hours in six days work.

Yes, minimum 8 days off per month, but in reality more. You do the math...

Boeing operator 2nd May 2015 12:38

@C Star

They have started an internal selection process. Technical test and interview, and last OPC good and references from company trainers and checkers.

C_Star 2nd May 2015 13:36

Thanks for the insight B O!:ok:

airwjo 2nd May 2015 16:21

Thanks for the perfect infos bo

9000 euros for a captain is not a bad salary to be in Europe, forget about major carriers, they will and have to change as well
This is including all allowances and before or after tax?

The hotel situation you talked about am not happy with that, hope they change that

Roster changes you have everywhere, especially on cargo

highfive 2nd May 2015 16:41

The Ad says operational base Gatwick on UK employment contract. Not Bangkok or Dar es Salaam !

There must be tax saving initiatives with this way of employment. for Norwegian , not you.

Its a great initiative from the company. Train an experienced guy onto the 787 then ask him to put up 30000 , incase he bails out after realising that those tax saving initiatives are illegal and take home pay is now under 4000 !

Yep its a bummer but where else to go for old guys marooned in the desert or stuck in the pollution?

airwjo 2nd May 2015 19:51

Well sounds familiar saw and seeing both

What you can do

Nothing nothing at all

chinafly 3rd May 2015 12:02

9000Euro for a captain is not bad? Wtf......

6500 gross before tax for a wide body captain operating global etops long haul with a rating he's had to stump up Eur30k as a bond for - with no job security, no pension, no Ni and 25 days leave.

This industry is on its arse.......

Cliff Secord 3rd May 2015 12:22

Yep, I ran that through a take home pay calculator. Basic tax code of ten grand and called it 78k pa. A take home of 4380 plus about 500-600 on per diem after that's taxed if you're lucky. No pension paid so you'd have to take a fairly sizable chunk out of that to make up lack of company pension with a private fund. Say you wipe off 500 quid towards a pension. That leaves you with 3880 in your pocket plus the per diems.

Oh and 25 days leave of course. For a long haul Captain rewarded by crappy hotels and min rest night stops.

airwjo 3rd May 2015 13:20

i know, what are you talking about, believe me

especially what chinafly said

but there are no options in europe (they know that), only sandpit or lovely china, where they offer you 20000 dollars on 320 why hmmmmm

so guys, what you want to do? sandpit, china, or better stay in europe??

everybody has its own priorities, but believe me and i say again i saw both, and both is horrible, for a couple of years yes, but not for long

the golden times of aviation are over, yes still you can earn very good money, especially in china, but living there is another story, sandpit money wise the same except it got quite expensive

Calmcavok 3rd May 2015 13:34

What seriously insulting package. Unless you have no other option to put food in the table, why would you lower yourself, and the industry, by taking it?

Many other options for Europe, mainly commuting contracts, but at least with those you will get a decent stretch at home and not a minimum of 8 days (no matter what extra crumbs they throw at you) off per month.

highfive 3rd May 2015 16:09

That Korean job is starting to look attractive. and says alot about this Norwegian

As stated before, a long term employee of the desert rat brigade, who has a couple of million in his bank can take it.

Its a steal , for Norwegian ;)

lear999wa 3rd May 2015 16:39

FYI: LGW based SH captains are on 2000euros more per month (gross) then the LH captains.

Says a lot about the company.

Oh and Sh guys also have a union and 12 days off per month and shortly a Lol.

Boeing operator 3rd May 2015 18:26

A small correction to you guys, it's 28 days of leave and not 25 days.

That doesn't change the pay.

However, it's quite simple. Go for the options or accept it. I believe the deal will change soon. They're loosing guys all the time and short haul has a better deal as someone wrote here. They will need to improve. There is a talk about a union as well.

Direct Bondi 3rd May 2015 20:06

"Oh and Sh guys also have a union" - "There is talk about a union"

Doesn't the LGW based, agency contract contain the clause "no claim as employee of the airline" - or similar?
Such a clause would prevent the formation of a legally recognized union as there is no direct employment relationship between the pilots and Norwegian.
If you recall, the main reason for the recent strike was for Norwegian to be the named employer, with whom a "union" has legally binding, collective bargaining rights.
Perhaps the term "pilot association" is more applicable (with no legal rights whatsoever).

nosmo king 4th May 2015 15:54

Norwegian pilots please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought LGW based SH pilots have voted for Union recognition with BALPA and OSM have accepted this position......

The union intention I believe is to get a recognition agreement signed by OSM by June.

lear999wa 4th May 2015 17:41

@ nosmo king, that is my understanding as well.

highfive 5th May 2015 03:02

So which what wide body Captain is going to apply?

Obviously no one from european legacy carriers, unless final salary pensioned retirees eg BA.

No one from 2nd tier european seniority based carriers, as it takes years to obtain a wide body command Eg Midland , Condor Tui etc

The money is similar to that paid at Turkish , which operates with EASA licensed captains.

There are however hundreds of wide body skippers employed by asian and middle eastern carriers who are financially independent , but who are not ready for full retirement.

EK , CX SQ have many such pilots , globally experienced guys, who's kids have left home, no mortgage, have substantial income from investments but who need a change.

Norwegian are trying to tap this little utilised pilot pool.
Most captains in this position are not unionised, are use to being employed as a contractor and have proven themselves as self sufficient employees, without a nanny union to run to when the company plays hard ball.

While not condoning Norwegian , direct entry european jobs
recognising none type rated pilots are few and far between and will never pay more than a bare bones salary from what was on offer 10-15 years ago.

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