As Bondi says


So yes, at the “flick of a switch” any of Norwegian’s LGW based pilots may be returned to their employer, OSM, without notice, reason or recourse. Moreover, OSM may be indemnified from any obligation to find their employee(s) alternative work based on any action by their client airline, Norwegian. There may be no notice period, or payment in-lieu-of notice, whatsoever. Read the contract!


This applies to any OSM employee in any base (ask me how I know :hmm:) at least until the Norwegian fish squirming on the hook is finally forced to accept a proper CLA in Spanish bases.


Not interested in anything with a Red Nose these days, but I find the figures quoted by Avenger shockingly underwhelming for a wide body Capt position.

Even 737 Capts in EuroBases were netting €7000 a month without spending weeks away from home in 3rd rate hotels , with jet lag etc as the cherry on the top.

Hello folks
If Norwegian start flying from Ireland to the States, will they have pilot bases in these places ?

Sooo if my counting is correct 60 days have passed and the approval is final or am I missing something?

So what is the anual salary? Not monthly net figures! It's an easy question BA year one salary is £55,150 plus £10 per hour flight pay plus £3.25 duty pay. Everyone keeps defending Norwegians terms and conditions but Nobody will give a straight answer as to what they actually are and I don't understand why!

Enzo, why don't you just look at the PPJN site, the figures are updated and accurate. The Uk tax regime is dependant on earnings. Its easy to work out based on average 60 hours, 70 hours etc etc. Take the month salary and multiply by 12 ( twelve) to get an annual salary.. Its an "easy answer"
Norwegian pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools

Yep Dutch, is looking that way..

Release #: 17.01
Date: January 03, 2017

ALPA to DOT: Deny Norwegian UK Application Now

WASHINGTON—In a filing today with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT), the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA) and other labor organizations did not oppose a Norwegian Air UK (NAUK) request for expedited processing of its application to fly to and from the United States, but the union continued to maintain that the DOT must reject the application because it fails to explain how the airline’s crews will be employed or how its business model will affect U.S. jobs.

Looks like NLH by committing to use US Pilots and Europeans has snuffed the candle on ALPA and all the " reasonable objections" have been removed. All this nonsense on labour practice etc etc is of no interest to the decision makers at DOT, these are " local issues" and a playground spat.

So, according to PPJN, Capt 787 at Gatwick is £103,000 gross including per diems and block hours at 60pm. Correct ?

Right so you are paid by the month, not annnually? So I am confused people seemed to be saying you were employed by OSM but surely you can't be an employee Without an anual salary, does that not make you a contractor? What happens if your sick or pregnant do they still pay you this monthly amount? How do they pay you a 5 percent pension if there is no reference salary to pay it against. Also everyone keeps saying based on 60 hours a month, if you work more than 60 do you get extra money? And if you work less do you still receive your full monthly pay.

God knows Enzo. PPJN is not very clear but then nothing about OSM is.

If they are full time permanent contracts with OSM then why is an annual gross salary so difficult to source. Surely it would be quoted by numerous individuals who would come on on here and say so.

It has been mentioned on here that OSM deduct UK Tax and National Insurance and if this is the case then individuals would appear to be employees of OSM but what these individuals do if Norwegian don't like the individual I just don't know. What if an OSM pilot joins BALPA? What would Norwegian do? Return the individual to OSM ? I am assuming that Norwegian are OSMs only airline "customer".

(Right so you are paid by the month, not annually), guess this must be true then for all the monthly salaries quoted on PPJN.. Emirates, Qatar, Supnexpress, etc etc..Normally pension contributions are levied at x% of the " basic" for all companies, if O/T is based on block hours, it's just that.. can't see what the confusion is.. regarding getting sick.. in 24 years I've never known a company that pays your salary ad infinitum until you get well...after a period of grace you rely on temporary loss of licence insurance.. So.. Salary is based on BASIC+PER DIEM+BLOCK HOURS.. if you fly no hours you still get a BASIC.. guess that means your not a " contractor".. I don't pay my painter if he doesn't paint my ceiling ..OSM have several clients as an " agency" they recruit for other airlines, not just Norwegian

And what is the BASIC?

Norwegian pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools god helps those that help themselves and time spent on diagnosis is rarely wasted!

Don’t worry too much about being an employee of OSM staffing agency, being rented out and having no labor rights or labor principles directly with the Norwegian airline. This is only a temporary solution – allegedly:

Norwegian CEO, Bjorn Kjos wrote to the DOT on June 1, 2015, testifying;

“Norwegian has regularly utilized the services of employment agencies for the recruitment of temporary provision of crews for a transitional period of 24-26 months in connection with the opening of new bases”

https://www.regulations.gov/document...2013-0204-0203

(open pdf file and scroll to letter)

Perhaps Norwegian’s pilots based in Spain and LGW, still employed by a staffing agency after "24-26 months", can tell us if the statement by Kjos is honest or dishonest?

And the point being ? As you point out after 36 months, if they don't like it they have had ample opportunity to make up their own minds and vote with their feet. We don't need to lecture them on life choices, its a rather arrogant stance to take, almost insulting to be honest.

Read the Kjos letter to the DOT.
I am interested to hear if you believe it to be misleading with respect to agency sourced crews and the expectation of eventual direct employment with a Norwegian airline.

Why would I want to do that?, I don't care if Kjos says he's Batman, with Trump in the hot seat we have more to worry about globally than corporate spin. Kos has cleverly bought time by recruiting pilots and crew in the US and that has spiked the guns over there, now, whether or not these are direct employees, agency staff, part timers of ad-hocs doesn't matter to the unemployed guys taking the jobs or those seeking a change of airline. Pilots fly planes not desks and contracts .

It is indeed going to be interesting to see what our unpromising hysteric will have to say about SAS taking out an AOC in Ireland and opening bases in London and Spain.

Flipflapflop
 

Those pilots in the U.K. Are employees of OSM, they pay PAYE tax & NI and have the same employment rights as any other person employed in the U.K.

The result of Norwegian not likening someone and wanting them off the contract ( as some on this forum like to suggest) would be interesting as without grounds for dismissal OSM would likely find themselfs in an industrial court with BALPA and the law on the employees side.

OSM recognised BALPA some time back so union membership is not a problem.

So their basic pay must be in pounds? The PPJN web site that I keep getting directed to quotes all monthly basics in euros but the flight pay and per diems in pounds is this correct. Surely you can't pay taxes to the UK inland revenue in euros? Also what is a per diem? It appears to be a fixed amount so why is it not just included as part of the basic?

Enzo, you don't appear to understand the concept of pay and per diems or that companies can publish pay in any currency but usually pay in local currency. Cathy publish pay in HKD but pay UK staff in GBP. Just convert the Euros to pounds using an exchange rate tool for an approximate salary as some companies fix the exchange rate in advance

No I don't understand it which is why I am asking for someone to explain it to me. maybe I am just stupid but this seems like the most complicated arrangement I have ever heard, paid half in euros half in pounds, taxes paid to the inland revenue in a forgiven currency, employed by one company and rented to another! I just fail to see how anything so confused and converluted can be to the benefit of the employee. Anyway if your not willing to explain then I won't loose too much sleep over it, providing you happy with what the deal is then crack on.

@Enzo999

I think people are getting you confused and mixing a lot really in this Thread with SH and LH.

Salaries in Pounds TRI 9.587 CAPT 7.844 RCA 6.101 FO 4.358

I do not have exact figures in Pounds for Per diems but around 1K extra independent of the position.

As far as I know there is no pay for Flight Hours. Basic + Per Diem PERIOD.

For the first 3 years is a Rishworth Contract After that is an OSM contract.

Apparently OSM contract is much better but have to wait the 3 years and do not know the figures of that one either.

A and C;

Those pilots in the UK are indeed employees of OSM, pay tax, NI, and have employment rights with OSM only, NOT with the Norwegian airline.

The Norwegian airline does not have to “dismiss” anyone, because they do not employ anyone. They simply return the rented pilot(s) or cabin crew(s) to their employer agency, OSM, without notice, reason or recourse.

Agency contracts for the provision of crews to a Norwegian airline contain the clause that “no employment relationship exists between the employee and the present lessee airline” or similar. Read the contract.

A UK Employment Tribunal will only hear disputes between an employer and an employee. Therefore, a LGW based 787 or 737 pilot having a dispute with a Norwegian airline has no legal recourse. BALPA represents pilots to their employer, OSM, not to a Norwegian airline.

I cannot fathom why Norwegian’s LGW based pilots continue to fill BALPA’s coffers with union dues for representation to a staffing agency, when the legal prerequisites exist for representation directly to the Norwegian airline. This is the option Norwegian's US and Spanish crews are pursuing via International Labor Organization guidance:

http://www.ilo.org/wcmsp5/groups/pub...cms_209280.pdf

But yes, I agree, there are far worse options. My dispute is with those who would misrepresent the OSM employment and the Norwegian airline “unemployment” circumstances.

Why would you even bother with this thread as a BA pilot? BA is a legacy carrier, nothing NLH could offer could come remotely close to a BA career..

Thanks for that, nice to get some exact figures! So let me get this right as a new employee with Norwegian I cant work for OSM anyway? I will have to start on a Rishworth contract for 3 years before being allowed to join OSM? Now without opening another can of worms what is the employment status with Rishworth? Contractor I would guess reponsible for paying your own taxes and why would you want to convert to an OSM contract after the 3 years (better rates of pay?)

CEO Espen Høiby: ?We offer pilots and cabin crew long-term and secure jobs? | IceNews - Daily News

http://www.enewswire.co.uk/2016/06/2...s-association/

Bondi
 

If as you put it Norwegian "returned" a crew member to OSM then the crew members dispute would be for OSM to resolve as they are the employer and will have to ( in this case ) abide by UK law.

They could not expect to go to court and say we fired the crew member because a customer company did not like them, they would have to have grounds to fire the crew member or the courts would award compensation to the employee.

In terms of employment protection it matters not who foots the compensation bill but that a crew member has the leagal protection afforded by UK law.

Can't speak for UK law & the "likely" protection offered (which regrettably has been known to fall short of ones expectations) but, we will see on 29th March how Spanish law views it. . . . . . . . .

This is a very interesting article:

http://www.icenews.is/2017/01/16/ceo...#axzz4XSxrmcRH

“The agreement will contribute to the best possible collaboration between unions and the company [OSM] including not only adherence to International Labour Organization (ILO) core conventions on freedom of association, organising and collective bargaining, but also the guarantee of regular meetings between unions and management and the inclusion of grievance and arbitration procedures”

Unfortunately, the reality only confirms the gross hypocrisy of the Norwegian regime:

http://cabinassociation.org/wp-conte...est-Letter.pdf

“OSM wrote to the NCCA on December 15,2016 stating that they were cancelling the January 18th meeting due to a scheduling conflict affecting two (2) members of the NCCA bargaining team and would evaluate if the March 1st was still feasible.
The NCCA wrote several emails to OSM asking for the conflicting assignments be pulled so the NCCA can attend the previously agreed to bargaining session on January 18th with a final attempt being made on December 28, 2016. OSM denied all requests for the assignments of the NCCA bargaining team to be pulled”

So much for Norwegian's idea of labor relations.

The agreement/implementation of a CLA between SEPLA & OSM/NAR is dragging its heels interminably . . . . mainly due to an attempt best described as "Union Busting" to pick over/ disagree/question every word in the proposed document by the NAR "Sharks". . . they really don't want to do it, and are dragging it out as long as possible whilst trying to avoid any scope clauses that may prevent them closing NAR ES & opening NAR ES #2 the next day with no CLA in place to question the "revised conditions". . . bunch of :mad:

Norwegian B787 LGW...
 

Greetings guys,,

I wanted to ask about info with regards to commuting with Norwegian on the B787 out of LGW? Is it possible to do this to and from the Eastern Mediterranean for example? Is there commuting rosters or set patterns that allow this?

Im currently a skipper on the B777 for the last 6 years and looking to move back to Europe.

Any help or advise would most welcome.

Hello Jetkopite,

Where do you live? It is possible you travel for free on the NAS network to and from work. Not all duty starts at LGW can also be one of the three big Skandinavien cities, Charles de Gaulle or Barcelona. You have a minimum of 10 days off a month and you can request the off pattern for ex 5+5 or 6+4. The 10 days is a minimum but can also be more not less. Almost everybody commutes so it is possible.

Hope it helps!

Hi Mike thanks for your reply..

I am hoping to base myself out of Larnaca, Cyprus. When you say you can request blocks of 5/5, 6/4 how easy is this to achieve?? Also to achieve this can one expect to work 7 days on in a row with back to back trips??

Also would love to know how the pilots see the airline in terms of atmosphere and being respected by management.

Thanks once again :-))

Are Norwegian finding it difficult to find crews for the 787 considering how poor the contract on offer is and the uncertainty of the operation. A 3 year contract speaks for itself.

Yoland
 

Please elaborate on uncertainty of the operation or stop trying to be a smarty pants

Or point him at the other identical thread currently live.

How realistic is it commuting with Norwegian to work? and where are people commuting from? Does the LGW contract too have only pass rights on the long haul routes only?

Does that mean a typical roster is 5 on 5 off or 6 on 4 off? can anyone post a typical 787 roster?

I think it means you can chose to have 2 blocks of 5 days off or one block of 6 day off plus another of 4 days off.

INKJET
I happily stand corrected but a 3 year renewable CONTRACT on offer isn't exactly enticing. Just my view but i guess nothing is certain in this world except one thing.

4 things no ? death, taxes, nurses, and an ex. . . . . . . ;)