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There has always been long haul pilots accepting jobs for less money than "Major Airline" LH pilots, ATA and Evergreen comes to mind among others.
Then again, Major LH pilots has also accepted huge pay cuts to stay employed, Pan Am and TWA for example. :sad: |
Its not just about the money. If money were the only issue Norwegian would have received a U.S. Foreign Air Carrier Permit months ago.
Although pilots flying for ATA, Evergreen, Pan Am and TWA all may have accepted lower pay, the fact remains they were directly employed by the respective airline with all associated direct employment labor rights and labor principles with the respective airline. As opposed to Norwegian's pilots, rented from a service provider/agency like cleaning staff, with no direct employment labor rights nor labor principles with Norwegian whatsoever. To add insult to the injury of being a rented pilot, Kjos has declared in his letter to the DoT below, that his exclusive use of agency pilots is only for a "transitional period", after which pilots are offered to "transfer their employment" to a company in the Norwegian group. Perhaps a LGW based, Norwegian 787 agency pilot, could provide details of what plans are in place to transfer their agency employment to direct employment with Norwegian ? ____________________________________________________________ In his June 1, 2015, letter to the DoT, Kjos states: "It has been and will continue to be our firm policy to offer all pilots and cabin crew employed through agencies the opportunity to transfer their employment to a company in the Norwegian Group at the end of a transitional period" The Kjos letter, Exhibit 1, can be viewed at the following link: Regulations.gov (ref: DOT-OST-2013-0204-0203, view NAI Motion, pdf attachment) |
I find it hard to know whether to trust Kjos or not....
Would any Finnish Norwegian pilots care to comment as they were the litmus test of Kjos claim... Are Finnish Norwegian pilots employed by OSM? Did their contract improve significantly when subsequently employed by Norwegian Finland (if indeed they are employed by a local Norwegian franchise)? |
Originally Posted by quadspeed
(Post 9063377)
The crux of the matter is that by individuals accepting ever lower conditions at outfits such as NLH, *everyone* else eventually gets dragged down to the same unsustainable level. You say your conditions are improving, but as soon as they do some other starstruck wannabe comes along and undercuts you. Suddenly you've become expensive and looking for work.
Those of us who've been doing this a few decades know the price to be paid for long haul. Seeing your children grow up while you're watching reruns at 3am in some hotel half a world away, never being fully awake nor fully asleep. And we've fought a long fight for adequate compensation. I'm not going to get into the other lcc issues; let the customers decide on those . But when you're threatening every other long haul colleagues income and few precious remaining days at home, it becomes a matter which certainly has its rightful place on these boards. You're selling yourself way below what you're worth, and undermining everyone else in the process. Your conditions will not improve, everyone else's will deteriorate as you've just lowered the bar. It's a battle we all should be fighting together as professional pilots. I'm at a loss how I can explain this any better and suspect you're ignoring the real issue. |
Of course !
I should really go on the dole to protect your T&Cs, what was I thinking ? Maybe I'll even move to Shenzhen ...... |
Rishworth still pushing the NLH jobs. This means that either
1) The current crop of candidates interviewed have fallen short of the mark 2) Those interviewed were so horrified that the T"s n C"s were no better than stipulated on Pprune, and ran off back to the desert. 3) They are just fishing. Perhaps the pool of unemployed wannabes is drying up, and they have to deal with pilots who are able to make a choice. And that choice is ... |
Perhaps the pool of unemployed wannabes is drying up If that is the case then Ts&Cs may, in the long-run, improve!? |
"If that is the case then Ts&Cs may, in the long-run, improve!?"
Yep, and I also believe in the tooth fairy & father Christmas. . . . . Oh well, we can live in hope. :rolleyes: "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" would be my advice to anyone starting a career in this industry. |
It's just up to anyone of you.
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Originally Posted by captplaystation
(Post 9069899)
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst" would be my advice to anyone starting a career in this industry.
In the words of a recent article on automation; "A senior executive at Airbus mentioned to me that in Britain and the United States the elites do not become airline pilots, whereas in France, as in less developed countries, they still do." http://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash |
Rishworth still pushing the NLH jobs. This means that either 1) The current crop of candidates interviewed have fallen short of the mark 2) Those interviewed were so horrified that the T"s n C"s were no better than stipulated on PPRuNe, and ran off back to the desert. 3) They are just fishing. Perhaps the pool of unemployed wannabes is drying up, and they have to deal with pilots who are able to make a choice. And that choice is ... |
Too bad they don't pay for the hotel in Oslo anymore for the screening and if their flights are full you have to take care of your travel expenses as well ....they are becoming another ultra low cost airline .
This are the results of a Norwegian LH Pilots Survey: 80% considers the current terms and conditions unsatisfactory. 72% considers Norwegian HR services unsatisfactory. 47% is looking for another job. 54% would not recommend Norwegian to friends. 61% considers Norwegian not a long term airline. 54% says they are unsure or not fully aware of their tax situation and applicable taxation liabilities. |
... and 99%, when polled, said they wont be leaving for your sh1tty job in Asia or the desert :) :)
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Kjos is a Lorenzo wanna-be.
Grow and sell cheap tickets at any cost. He forgot his roots and his free flight training to become a military pilot without worrying about pay, benefits or job security: All taken care of by the Government, and my tax money. :sad: Now he makes sure newbies has to pay for their own rating, then he kicks 'em back on the street but still demands payback for the training. Lorenzo would be proud.:rolleyes: |
If we are talking percentages..........
100% of Norwegian's LGW based 787 pilots are still employed with an agency rather than directly employed with Norwegian. Does this fact make Kjos a 100% liar ? ___________________________________________________________ In his June 1, 2015, letter to the DoT, Kjos states: "It has been and will continue to be our firm policy to offer all pilots and cabin crew employed through agencies the opportunity to transfer their employment to a company in the Norwegian Group at the end of a transitional period" The Kjos letter, Exhibit 1, can be viewed at the following link: Regulations.gov (ref: DOT-OST-2013-0204-0203, view NAI Motion, pdf attachment) ___________________________________________________________ Kjos takes strike revenge by terminating a union delegate Dagbladet Norway News reports that a union delegate active during the March strike has been terminated by Norwegian. Both the NPU and PARAT are 100% behind the pilot and if necessary will take the matter to court. A Norwegian manager stated they "respect unions and have a good relationship with unions since beginning in 2002". During the strike Norwegian separated the Scandinavian division into three companies without any union consultation whatsoever. Norwegian continues to use agencies to supply its pilots and cabin crew, thereby preventing any union representation or collective agreement directly with Norwegian. News Link: Norwegian har sparket hovedverneombudet under streiken - nyheter - Dagbladet.no *copy and paste to Google Translate |
DB, I see you were "deleted", glad to see you posted again. . . . Agendas Agendas, seems for pprune NAS has become the "new Ryanair" (or E****d? )
People should read/translate/weep after perusing the link at the bottom of your post . . . . . amazing how contacting the local CAA (after being ignored by your employer) to notify safety concerns should A - come to the attention of your employer, & B-result in your termination . . . . strange that, or maybe not in Norbabwe. |
Has anyone got a reply from the online tests last May yet ?
When are the interview going to be ? |
Ive not heard. Im Not rated and to be honest have lost all interest.
Anecdotal evidence indicates that most guys they want have been interviewed. Bizarrely they are still constantly advertising. Sounds like Korean ! |
Apparently, Norwegian's communications manager isn't having much of a summer break:
"Norwegian's London base slaughtered in shock report from CAA" says Dagbladet Norway news, August 20 - Link: Norwegians London-base slaktet i sjokkrapport fra Luftfartstilsynet - nyheter - Dagbladet.no The report states the LGW base has been without any leadership and has only 30 square meters of office space for use by 158 staff. Norwegian re-registered six of its 787's from Ireland to Norway to increase its US flights under Norway's established traffic rights agreement. However; "Norwegian registered aircraft are considered Norwegian territory. Foreign crew (Thai/US) require resident work permit" says lawyer for Norwegian Cockpit Association, reports Dagbladet Norway news, August 18 -Link: LO-forbund mener Norwegian flyr ulovlig - nyheter - Dagbladet.no Any news of 787 agency pilots being offered the Kjos promise of direct employment with Norwegian ? |
Bondi,
Can you not get a hobby or something ? Your constant NLH knocking is getting on my nerves. Of course, any airline with an office, doesn't have room to accommodate all their pilots and cabin crew at once, because they are never there at once are they ? What axe do you have to grind ? Or have you really nothing better to do ? |
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