Gorter, you can, of course, supply us with the data you gathered from everyone else...can't you?

I'm interested to know how you claim to be able to tell me what I'm going to want to do in the future!

:mad: head.

Gorter doesn't need to, as you know yourself most of the first officers are openly discussing their plans to leave the company in the flight deck. Maybe I do encourage them a bit by talking about my own plans to pack up and move the family to the desert, but apart from a few new joiners all the experienced fo's I've flown with have applications in elsewhere.

Even if half the negative views in this topic would be true, they should at least rease a few eyebrows and make potential new joiners think twice.
The people defending the company in this topic are generally not the line pilots but some trainers and managers.

Everybody has to do what he/she thinks is best for him/her. But don't say you haven't been warned!

Not everyone then, which was the claim?! Gorter certainly does need to prove his assertions as he claims to speak for everyone else which includes me. Otherwise it is just unsubstantiated BS.

Of course, you should heed your own warning if and when you end up in the desert.

Cheers for the warning, I fully appreciate what you are saying. the decision isn't easy but with the continuous stream of roster disruption from April till November we decided it hopefully will improve the quality of our family life. I still have one option with another UK airline which hopefully materialises but if not the desert it is.
It was a great company when I joined long time ago but in the last 3 to 4years has transformed itself (below industry pay, pension, benefits, maximum roster disruption and way to many groundings for my liking). It's a shame since it was such a great place to work and has all the potential to become one if only....

Jet2
 

+1.
The downward spiral started (IMO) with the removal of a previous DFO. At least he could fly (and jolly well by all accounts!) Gone but not forgotten.

Re: Roster disruptions/general bullsh*t at Jet2.

I have followed this thread for a while as one of a number of experienced yet young expat FO's seriously considering a return home due to lifestyle. I have well and truly had my fill with my current lot and would be looking at either a UK based LH e.g BA, or waiting for VS, or a northern based SH e.g Jet2, especially seeing as a command is still light years away.

I am well aware of the tangibles e.g salary, block hours etc, but could somebody be kind enough to elaborate a little bit as to what sort of "crap" we are talking about with respect to things like roster disruption? Preferably with real life examples (as far as anonymity will allow). Weekends off during summer etc? Can they change your days off? "Crap" is after all, entirely relative and I would be grateful to see whether the "different shade of brown" experienced at J2 would adequately compensate for the significant pay cut.

PM's if preferred,

Best regards.

Roster disruption is as you know, subjective. Some people experience little disruption, and others seem to have it all the time.

The disruption that I think most are referring to are the constant changes to duties, anything from an early changing to a late to whole weeks changing after the rosters are published. The main gripe is contactable duties being rostered at inappropriate times (like, for example on day 6 of a run of duties - clearly, if it were intended as a contactable, it would be pointless, as you be into days off by the time they could use you.), but what will often happen, is a couple of days before said contactable, it'll change to a standby, and then often a flight.

The rostering in general is poor - regular earlies to lates (eg, 2-3 earlies followed by 2-3 lates with no days between) - similar story the other way round, usually with a stby in-between. Many fatigue reports on the issue, but no noticeable change in this pattern.

There is no roster agreement, only a policy - with plenty of clauses like "subject to operation needs", "when operationally possible" etc.

There are no bid systems, or preferences, so you can't bid for lates or earlies - roster swaps can be difficult to achieve.

Weekends off - well, it's pot luck. If you play the RDO game consistently, you'll get some weekends off, but if you forget or whatever, there are no guarantees of a weekend off. I think there used to be a policy of 1 weekend off per month, but my roster says differently. No weekends off this month.

Days off are fixed, they don't change these, but you can expect to be contacted on a day off to see if you'll work when they're short.

The winter however is blissfully quiet - although I'd expect to see some changes in the coming years - new aircraft, whilst a welcome development, undoubtedly mean a greater winter schedule (not a bad thing), and probably the loss of the "friendly flight times" slogan - deep nights ala Thompson I'd imagine.

Overall, it's not a bad place to work. There are pro's and con's. Think will need to improve though, as leaky buckets aren't sustainable - you can only shovel sand so quickly, eventually the bucket will empty.

The grass is rarely greener, more a different shade of brown.

Many thanks for the reply mate, it's greatly appreciated.

Ref. contactables. That is how they're supposed to be used! They should not be used to enable a late to early change, multiple fatigue reports seems to have stopped this practice though but if I get one a quick call to Flight Safety gets it changed.

On that point lates to earlies and vice versa seem to be falling out of favour and I seem to be getting blocks of earlies or lates, usually 3 or 4, then 2 or 3 days off. I haven't had an early to late or late to early mid week change since the beginning of summer.

Of course, I'm at the best base where they treat us better. ;)

Contacted on days off - well don't answer the 'phone if you don't want to be contacted! They don't even bother me know as they know I won't answer.

@Chesty Morgan

No - a contactable is a period where the company can call you, to advise of a duty starting no earlier than 10 hours from the start of the contactable period. It is not another word for a stby. I could quite reasonably have planned to be out of the country on a contactable. A rostered contactable should not change to a stby or a flight 2 days prior.

You've obviously had a great roster this summer then. Thus highlighting the inconsistencies. May - July, the vast majority of weeks for me was 5-6 days, with 2 or 3 day off in-between, hitting 100 hrs in 28 days.

I don't answer my phone on a day off, nor reply to the text messages - but it's still an interruption on a day off....

Cheers,

No duty should be changed in an ideal world but a Contactable is just a duty subject to change like any other.

No, they can't call you off a contactable like a standby but they are well within their rights to change it ahead of the actual duty providing minimum rest is complied with.

https://www.chirp.co.uk/upload/docs/...B%20114%20.pdf

Page 6.

Before you shoot me down I like it as much as you, but thems the rules.

Just before i left, about 9 years ago, we had a rare sunny summers afternoon, and a group of about 10 pilots met up for a beer in the local pub (the ship iirc).

mid session, someones phone rang. You guessed it, screwing " help me obi wan, you are our only hope". " sorry, i'm in the pub, can't help" was the reply.

10 seconds later, another phone rang. Yep, same "help me" call. Same reply.

10 seconds later, yup, same again.

10 seconds later, same call to another chap, same response, but added" don't bother calling Pew, Pew, Barleymagroo, Cuthbert, Dibble, or Grubb, coz they are all in the pub too!"

Sounds like not much has changed.

Thanks Chesty - I'd missed that CHIRP article.

Perhaps they should just change contactable to "Flexible Standby" and then we'd all know where we stand.

Well ok, then. Maybe the question is not so much whether contactable is a legal, or even reasonable rostering tool, but will people continue to put up with it, if there are other options.
Ditto, earlies to lates (or even earlies to lates to earlies to lates...).

Wow
 

Well after a good couple of hours reading this thread about the airline I hope to one day fly for, I'm not much wiser on whether they are a good company or not to work for. It appears there are certainly some bitter ex employees on here that can't seem to let the past be the past, but also some current employees that seem to be level headed and say how it is.
For a student pilot like me, self funding my way through my training, it is quite disheartening to hear about the state of the industry from the people at the coal face......but it's always been my dream to fly the in the airlines, so onwards and upwards :ok::ok:

Good luck to you Mattyfab. Don't be too harsh about those that have been there and had the stew. After you have had 3 airlines go bust on you and had to spend a few years getting sand in your privates to return earning less than you were in your very first flying role you will start to develop the art of cynicism. Most of us joined because it was our dream, but dreams will not pay your mortgage (if you can even get one with a huge training loan over your head), feed or pay for nursery for your children when you are old enough. And the reason it is such a mess is because so many companies are under such pressure (either necessity or shareholder) to cut costs that they cannot resist the temptation to take advantage of the flood of kids happy to buy their way onto the flight deck thereby forcing down the terms and conditions for all.

What's the criteria for an F/O to become a SFO? And what's the take home like for a SFO?

@WX Man

It adds just over 6k gross to your salary.

Having joined Jet2 in the LHS, I've been happy with my experience so far. I know saying that will ruffle a few feathers but there you go. Yes, there are a few quirky ways of doing things, the roster pattern isn't fixed and the lack of weekends off seems universal to most but that's largely it. Note to self - make better use of the RDO system! On a positive, I now live under 30 minutes away from my base, I'm enjoying the flying and I haven't seen too much roster disruption at all (seems base dependent so I'm not arguing that it doesnt occur). I've had a pretty positive experience with the leave system, which was non existent in my last company. In comparison, there are some later starts and even later finishes and the threat of deep into the night flying like TOM or TCX may loom with the new aircraft arriving; as does wet and damp leasing programs. I have no experience with this type of flying however the new aircraft order is encouraging and I feel happy about the commercial approach that the company has adopted. There'll be some new challenges but ordering new metal is what was required and it will ultimately move the business forward.
Winter is around the corner and, at present, this delivers a quiet period with very little flying. Having flown 800-900 hours a year through all weathers, winter ops etc that's just fine by me! And yes, I'm on 100% permanent before anyone asks.
Everywhere has its problems and in certain circumstances this may depend upon where you live, where you are based and what seat you fly from. So far, I've been pretty happy with Jet2. Sorry to go against the grain here however pprune does a great job in harbouring negativity across the board. I've equally been as guilty in the past.

Thanks for the positive and up to Date opinion from within Kilo.

Can anyone give me a heads up on how to prepare for or revise look up or better still find the answers to the on line joining tests,
DEC rated.

Jet2_320

If you think your quality life will improve for you and your family by moving to the desert, you are very misguided. Your quality of life will be the first thing to go south.

Why do you think so many people are leaving here to get back home? Many of my colleagues have gone to Jet2 & Ryanair to improve their quality of life. Flydubai has lost over 50 pilots by August this year, overtaking the 48 that resigned for the whole of 2014. Emirates is also haemorrhaging pilots too, all for the same reasons.

Don't be fooled by the tax free salary either. Rent here is astronomical, fuel has just increased by 25% in one hit, VAT is just around the corner and the list goes on and on.

My advice is just be careful what you wish for.

Received an email this morning to say my application will be processed within 4 weeks :ugh:

...which consist of...?

PZ :ok:

Callsign Kilo - Thanks for adding a touch of balance to the thread. :ok:

Type of Flying---Factorisation

In House, On Type---1.00
External, On Type---0.9
Multicrew TP---0.75
In House, Different Type---1.00
External Jet, other types (Multi pilot)---0.8
External Jet, other types (Single pilot)---0.75
Multi crew rotary---0.75
Single crew rotary---0.4
Single crew <5700 kg---0.4
Previous Flight Engineer experience---0.25

@ Turbopropman

Be careful what you put on PPRUNE. Banging your head against a wall after a comment of what you got and when it would not be difficult to work out who you are and drop your application if it offended someone!

I'd be editing that if your after joining

That's not a get lost though is it? From experience that can mean you never hear anything again or you get a call soon for interview so chin up. Keep monitoring your application status as a change can be good news too.

Hey Guys!

I have a question regarding the requirements for the NTR FO position.

Does anybody know if 500 flying time on any AC + experience on a medium to heavy jet are required OR 500 flying time + experience on a medium heavy jet are required?

Thanks!

I had to read your post 3 times. Did you not ask the same thing twice?

Hey, yeah I know its a bit confusing.

No, I was asking two different things actually regarding the requirements.

A) 500 hours on any aircraft + experience on a medium to heavy jet

or

B) 500hrs + experience on a medium to heavy jet

After reading the job ad again, I think A is required :ok:

Greetings

Lets not assume, but I would guess that CaptKilo could well be on a certain final salary pension scheme, to supplement his J2 crumbs :E

Can anyone working for jet2 tell me more about the present situation / demand for NTR FOs?

Thank you :)

There is a demand for FO's NTR or TR.

It's going to be a busy winter for training.

Ab-initio Second Officers
 

Hi, would anyone know if they are looking at potentially hiring ab-initio second officer's?

Thanks

Guys from flight school with a MEIR etc are currently recruited through the apprentice scheme

Anyone know how much longer theyre gonna wait until responding to the applications? Maybe until the summer starts?

Went to one of their open-days, apparently TR/experienced/DEPs took the front seats in the recruitment process. What I have been told is that they are now going thru the NTR applications so everyone shall expect an answer within 4 weeks from the day they received the "application under review" email.

Best luck

DK ;)

Hello, anybody of the applicants did the online assesment ?? (Numerical reasoning , verbal reasoning, personality test )
It is a part of application or you should wait a responce before do it ?
They just write me that my application is under consideration.

Thanks
J

Couple of Questions...
 

Just have a couple of questions if anyone currently at Jet2 could help with....

Im a rated FO with about 2500 hrs, I'm looking at coming over.

How long could I expect to spend in the RHS?

There is a mention on PPJN re Command Assessments and why people are leaving...
"For FO it is because an unhealthy percentage of 64% of command assessments are failed"

36 out of 100 seems like a lot of guys not meeting the mark, is this true?
And if so can you expect support and a structured process to get you up to the required standard?

Many Thanks