No point in comparing which airline is better than which, but just as a thought, if a skipper at the orange airline (especially if based in France/Italy) applied to join as FO at the bottom of the BA short haul seniority list, then it would definetly make me wonder...
no drama though, plenty of excellent pilots will que. it's all good

There is potential for variety/routes/fleet et la after 5+years on short haul unto LH with BA which might not be the case with the Orange. Some people will challenge limits of their ability while following their passion. BA provides that environment that enables individuals and groups to flourish and thrive time and time again. It's this proven fact that 'plenty of excellent pilots will que' for.
Would the Orange vouch for this fact? It has to stand that test of time.

eaglesnest1972, we are on the same list:ok:

Yes mate, wish you good luck:ok:

Have I just fallen into a parallel dimension of bull****? Wise up, it's a job you do so you can pay your bills, buy a car, take the missus on a nice holiday and put the kids through school. It makes naff all difference what colour the tail is painted. It's not like you are making some Zen-like spiritual life choice. I'll say again because it bears repeating: it's just a job!

Yep have to agree with whats written here regarding it not being quite the cut/dry decision of easy vs BA it perhaps once was. I'm an SFO at ezy and didn't apply for BA this time round, friends inside BA speak of the changes its going through. If you want a career in the UK, more specifically London, BA probably still has the edge. No one can think 5 earlies at LGW with easy is doable for 30 years. It appears BA is the more sustainable of the two over the long term. If you want to fly long haul in the UK its BA or VS. Personally I like being home at night, an unused standby is a day at home. Again, easy is probably more appealing if you are at a base where your friends and family are near by. The name of the side means very little, a job they both are, with reasonably secure futures is what I am grateful for at the moment. There is more to life than flying!

If I were able to commit to London then it would be a no brainer. It would be BA. Whilst you may earn more at EZY as you'll get a command quicker, you'll be lucky to see 50 in any degree of good health. The pay is good, the variety of flying is good, it is very stable. But 5 four sector days on the bounce is not sustainable, nor are the 02:00 beach flight finishes several days in a row. Yes BA work hard too, but it has to more sustainable. Anyone 30 or under and able to commit to London should really consider it.

I am currently flying like that in one of the worst place on earth, underpaid and with ridicoulous T&C's.
Given all that, for pilots in my same situation, entering BA would be like winning the lottery.
I would gladly fly 5x4 for the rest of my career (joking), for a solid and serious Company, in a civilized country and with fair and legal T&C's.
This is me of course:p

speedrestriction
 

Without any doubt, there are many pilots at BA whose motivation to fly isn't money or any of those things you find top of your priority. I appreciate that money is important but for them it's about something different that pitches their flying ability with BA. At this point it ceases to be neither a job nor a career but a passion. This is who they actually are! It's called self realisation or self actualisation. It's this passion that motivates them to challenge their roofs; the desire and absolute commitment to 'to fly to serve' if you like ;). You will be surprised how much people can do when they are driven by love.

But yeah, I accept your motivation and point of view but I do not agree.

Just to add a bit of reality to this. I have been in ezy not far off a decade and I have yet to do 5 x 4 sectors in a row. No idea if this will change with the wonderful EASA FTL though. Safety first and all.

Kirungi1.......there certainly are people who are exceptional within BA and must be motivated by more than money but OMG what a load of drivel. You must not be on the airbus fleet but a career at waterside would be just up your street. If they wanted to challenge their flying ability they would not be flying airliners.

Bovine excrement comes to mind.

If you want to challenge your roof..........go fly in Botswana, Yellowknife, fly biz jets without the comfort of the support network that BA provides. Flying big jets on a scheduled route network?........don't think so.

Good luck with the application though, if it's what you want I wish you all the best.

Yeah, pass the sick bucket...

BA management wouldn't be doing their job if BA was still the head and shoulders choice.

I think BA T&Cs will decrease in real terms for new joiners (as I do EZY).

Equally, the culture of staying until grave needs to move, as it gets expensive but this needs a full upheaval of bidline which is a battle for another year.

Spot on FANS.

The 34 point pay scale has addressed the issue to some extent as has part time working. The problem is the longer you have been in the easier it becomes. Why would you leave if your 50% on the top scale, 747 fleet? Pick where you want to go and near as dam it when. Then on your few trips a month take the wife with you on one and the girlfriend on the other :E

The system needs to be modernised then maybe 20-30 odd balls would not be fighting to stay beyond 65 :ugh:

There might well be but I'll add to what bex88 and FANS might be hinting towards here. I remember waiting on the staff bus outside the Jury's at Heathrow, readying myself for a blast in the 744 sim for DEP entry. I met a 14 year part time long haul SFO. He lived in a far off dimension, no real clue about the 'real' airline world dominated by RyanJet and EasyAir. Told me he never actually liked the job and it was a toss up between being a doctor and a pilot, but as BA were footing the bill he got into the 'flying lark.' Said he could cope with the part time and the odd trip to Sydney. Had zero interest in command, on any fleet at any stage.

bex88, GBD and Callsign Kilo, thanks all for your insights and corrections.

I'm sure the Managed Path - F/O for instance, is always going to be competitive and applicants will be contending to fly airliners.
I apologise for the drivel but it's always going to be a question of motivation for some that would generate responses of why fly for BA to a greater extent than how or what to fly in general; otherwise some people would buy their own planes to fly.

Flying airliners in Botswana is a challenge in a different context but it wouldn't be that long to touch the roof; yes different challenges but less strenuous (less traffic, number of days off, weather/visibility... et la)

Oh Lord Kirungi.

I once sat next to a Captain who said that we, as pilots, were the social elite.... Whilst struggling to do 'the Sun' crossword.

The cadets coming through are not exactly world beaters. Many have their abilities masked by flying an airliner in such a controlled environment, not challenged by it. BA is no different.

My tiny (full time, normal line pilot) cog in the big orange machine amounts to 687hrs 33mins Block hours in the last 12 months over 339 sectors requiring 1,379hrs 40mins Duty hours. Two days sick, standard leave.

I'm doubtless institutionalised after 14 years but talk of unsustainable burn out passes me by.

So, today is the day.
Good luck to those who applied:ok:

The cadets don't need to be world beaters. Flying from LHR has many challenges and more frustrations, but you don't need to be able to walk on water in today's machinery.

Therein lies the rub. The days of legacy t and c s can not last and really people are playing for time. The curve is down but BA is still an outstanding option for those in the right circumstances.

Good luck for all today. Hopefully good news for most as we need guys and girls to join us.

My two pence worth......why do you want to leave your current airline? "I don't I am quite happy there"

Why do you want to join BA? "I just can't see myself not getting bored of flying tracksuits to turkey for the next 30 years and I appreciate the opportunities BA offer over a career"

And tell me what is your ultimate goal if you were to join BA? "To balance a successful and progressive career with a happy marriage". To which the interviewing pilot smiles, laughed and said yes yes divorce is expensive I can tell you.

How would you describe yourself? "Recklessly honest"

Worked for me so BA sometimes appreciate straight to the point without the equine poop.

WWW,

A full-time LHR shorthaul pilot will do broadly the same number of hours as you indicate (the average is slightly more in fact) but with annual duty time approaching 2000 hours, usually spent hanging around in a windowless coffee bar in the bowels of T5 waiting for your next aircraft (fixed links are rare).

Personally, it's all the hanging around and feet dragging which gets to me.....

Edit: If you join today, you will get a five year shorthaul freeze. What this does not mean is that you can move to longhaul after five years. What it means is that you will have a valid bid which will be actioned subject to vacancies and your seniority. Currently, you will have to wait around seven years for your seniority to allow a move.

Personally, I wish we could offer all the Monarch chaps and chappets places. I don't think we will be short this time around.

BA for all its faults (and there are a few) is still far superior than the crappy outfit I used to fly for.

Just noticed that deadline for DEP (rated) has been postponed...
10th of september now...
Guess all applications received so far do not satisfy BA recruiters:cool:
Or too few applications...
Any insight from current BA fellow pilots?

At the risk of repeating myself.... :\

Nothing official, but it's rumoured Flight Ops are under the cosh from a workload POV at the moment, maybe it' something to do with that.

(presses "Submit Reply" once, and waits.........):\

The DailyMail has some fine words for BA. They say history has a tendency of repeating itself ;)

Ryanair is snubbed as budget easyJet edges into list of world's top 10 airlines ... and British Airways steals number one spot | Mail Online

Thanks Wiggy:ok:

Kirungi
 

When Brighton is named number one for restaurants and bars, I think we can safely turn the page on that one.

ETOPS240..... depends on what you read out of it. None-the-less, a recognition remains a recognition and I'm sure others wouldn't have turned it down.

I would still stay on the same page!

WWW

Might I hazard a guess that you don't fly from Gatwick? When I worked for easyjet down there I averaged well over 685 hours a year. Now I'm at BA I'm averaging more like 825 block hours a year on short haul but obviously I do a lot more duty hours than I used to. I haven't met a 320 FO or Captain who's done less than 800 in the last 12 months.

Regardless of how the two airlines are perceived a lot of it will come down to where you are based with easyJet. That's what makes the comparison more complicated than certain people would like.

I concur.

When you factor in mortgage repayments on a regional house compared to a SE house then that's another overlooked aspect assuming you have geographic flexibility.

think deadline extension may provide a few Monarch peeps

MON
 

Good, I hope as many as possible get positions. Horrid to have to go through redundancy

Would any junior FO's on the A320 with BA be kind enough to share :-
1. How many reports on average per month?
2. How many nights down route on average per month?
Are there many junior guys/girls on the A320 living over 90 minutes away from LHR and finding the commute acceptable?

From a dip sample of 20 random September rosters at the blindline/junior tripline holder (samples taken from only months without leave):

1) Average of 10.2 reports from 20 rosters (range 7-13)
2) Average of 7.05 nights away from base (range 2-9)

Total average days worked : just over 17

@Mesh

so you think it will be a "all UK" recruitment from Monarch, Easy and the others?
I really hope they will give a chance to expats also this time:ooh:
Btw, yes, redudancy is simply awful so i hope these guys will fix their situations asap.

www, is your plan 30 years at ezy?

Edward England, Stocious is just about spot on with his figures. There are guys who commute from Norther Ireland etc on the SH fleet but its difficult for them. 90 minutes is ok just, but in my view anything over an hour is a real pain in the ass. If you are coming from the north the M25, M1, M40 can be almost impossible to judge. Many guys block their work together and stay down.

I was living an hour and 20 mins away and it was acceptable but I did eventually move to live within an hour although the commute was not the motivating factor

I commuted from Glasgow on short haul for five years. It was manageable but not much fun. Also, I was able to pick up 4/5 day tours which kept down the nights at Heathrow. The real pains are disruption and reserve but there are plenty of acceptable b & bs near LHR for £30 a night.

FANS just to give you perspective, there is and will eventually be NO difference between any short haul operation in Europe in terms of fatigue/amount of hours flown etc..we are talking 830 (eighthundredandthirty!) hours flown in a year at a major as of 2014, this would have been unthinkable 10 years ago or even less. Long haul will eventually have the same problem.

So to ask if you are planning to stay in this or that company for x amount of years does not indicate much me thinks.

The truth is, if tiredness/fatigue is a factor for you (which it is for most of us flying for the airlines), then join the company with the best part time options/pay, not a traditional 5 days trips short haul operation, possibly commuting from the middle of the countryside.

Sorry for OT