Thanks Aluminium shuffler, you just proved my point.
No you could try and improve both pilots and cabin crew conditions rather then just concentrating on your egocentric selves.

Why are Cabin crew conditions now the responsibility of the pilots? How much effort do any CC put into it? How many of you have joined the much cheaper and more effective CC unions? The RYR pilots have a hard enough time fighting for themselves, and seem to be having limited success. Why not fight your own corner rather than crying that others aren't fighting it for you? You are doing exactly what RYR management want - turning on your colleagues and fighting them instead of the management. Stupid isn't strong enough a word...

Oh we should use current unions? Which one then exactly? About 20 different ones in 20 different countries. And then what? It's not like when pilots joined existing unions like IALPA and BALPA that the succes was overwhelming was it?
Where did I say that pilots need to fight for the cabin crew. I'm talking about fighting together. Has anyone from REPA ever approached any CC to try and do that?

As long as you have a couple of 1000 EUR on your bankaccount right? Never mind that no4 CC that barely gets 900EUR on a bad month.

Btw, name calling is a sign of weakness. Very adult behaviour! ;)

You think that pilots get so much more in a bad month then 900€ considering they pay double social security up to 50% +21% tax + accountant costs...:ugh: and fly 30hours/month. Anyway goodluck with the fight :ok:

I'm on the "new" contract, flying an average of 60bh per month. After irish taxes and spanish social security I'm getting around 3500net. Obviously in some bases you fly 30(which is the minimum payed by the company now, on this contract) which mean you will earn 1700net. But now i see most of the fo's in most bases are flying quite a lot, if you a good month you can bring home 4,5/5k after tax wich is not bad in my opinion. No need to say that i prefer less net money and a normal contract, as far as i know now regular FR CONTRACT fo's are getting around 3-3,5 per month for 12 months.

fulmin,

I presume you are new? You still have your TR and LT cost to claim as expenses. How "doped" is your salary? Wait until you pay full Irish PAYE, possibly USC and PRSI. Are you Spanish? Do you expect to enjoy any of the benefits from paying Spanish SI, i.e. accumulate pension? Keep in mind you are only paid 11 out of 12 months. Do you expect any rise to match inflation? Not exactly industry leading.

Just wait until your expense of TR is gone :ugh: you wont be even close to 3500!

THIS is what O'Leary is telling his investors at flashy conferences in London........
 

“Never since Noah floated the ark has there ever been a shortage of people who get paid about 150,000 euros to legally fly no more than 900 hours,” O’Leary said.

This a quote only yesterday in BLOOMBERG reference:

Taming Ryanair Becomes Personal Gamble for Tough-Talking O?Leary - Bloomberg

Surely this is a job for the 'trade descriptions act' , false advertising, just plain lies and deceit. New commanders with Ryanair earning one third of that and living in some godforsaken place in deepest darkest Eastern Europe on a 5/3 roster. Yeah he's right, never has there been a shortage of wannabes HOPING for the dream of these ficticiouly false salaries but the truth is vastly immeasurably inconceivably hugely different form O'Leary's lies that he spouts to journalists and investors.

3500..net

For a lot of people they would consider that a good net wage and this is why pilots don't get the sympathy vote when industrial action looms, of course for a profession its along way from a good wage, but at least the type of contract your on allows you to offset your training costs against tax, which you wouldn't be able to do if you weren't sort off self employed, pay for a type rating to join say Jet2 and if your employed directly or by Xenon/Zenon then it a 100% hit on your bottom line.

So see it for what it is, not what you would like it to be, get your 1000 hours, learn your skill, move on, its cynical i know, but its cynical on both sides, we were never educated to approach employment for our dream job, of get in asap, get out asap, but the smart guys/girls do just that, oh and try and enjoy it :ok:

Yet again, Fryup, you show your true colours - you expect the Ryanair PILOT Group to approach the cabin crew. You don't approach the RPG yourself, and you certainly make no effort to form a cabin crew body. You just want to ride on the backs of the pilots, most of whom are facing most of the same problems as the cabin crew contractors but with the added issue of debts of over £100k.

I'm all for cabin crew fighting the RYR management - I sympathise with their situation, especially the contractors, but if the RYR pilots are relatively powerless to improve their own positions, what makes you think they have the time, money or influence to improve yours?

If you want you circumstances to get better, then like everyone else in the world, you'll have to fight for it yourselves. Slagging off your colleagues and being bitter about not being a pilot is going to get you nothing but the contempt of the pilots who currently sympathise with you.

I remeber a few years back MOL wanted to fly with one pilot and a trained stewardess would take the RHS if complications arrise. How about after the aircraft gets to the cruise, the FO goes down the back and helps sell phone and scratch cards along with expensive drinks and food then returns to the flight deck at TOD.

You are confusing operational reality with the recurrent publicity stunts

I still think that you guys should publicly withdraw smooth landings until a contract is in place and union recognition is obtained.

It wouldn't make any difference to be honest but just go public with why the landings are never smooth with Ryanair.

That would be a daft thing to do.

I presume you have fleet-wide FDM so if you are identified as someone who is over-stressing the gear then I would expect to be shown the door pretty bloody sharpish.

The people (I hesitate to use the word 'professionals') in this industry have officially lost the plot! Barking...just barking!

THE LIES
 

“Never since Noah floated the ark has there ever been a shortage of people who get paid about 150,000 euros to legally fly no more than 900 hours,” O’Leary said.
This from a very recent Bloomberg article.
Even though the reality is vastly different, (calculate one third of that for a recently upgraded captain and you'll be pretty close to the mark).
These are the lies that investors are being told about pilots at flashy conferences.
This is why Ryanair have to resort to yet more cunning 'back you into a corner' tactics of bribing the FO's an extra tenner an hour to enrol into the command course.
This is why pilots are leaving.

Hundreds of pilots take flight from Ryanair with more planning exit

20 April 2014 by Nicola Cooke

Hundreds of Ryanair pilots have left the airline in the last 12 to 18 months, and hundreds more plan to leave in the next 12 months, according to information acquired by the Ryanair Pilot Group (RPG).

Between 300 and 500 Ryanair pilots are understood to have left the airline in the last 18 months to take up jobs with the new transatlantic service provider Norwegian Air Shuttle, as well as with Middle Eastern airlines and other operators such as Thomson and Wizz Air.

In a new survey of Ryanair pilots which was carried out by RPG and generated responses from 1,128 of the airline's pilots, almost one third said they planned to leave the Irish-owned airline within the next 12 months. That figure jumped to 50 per cent when it included pilots planning to leave within in the next two years.

Two in three said they might reconsider their plans to leave the airline if issues around pay, treatment and respect were improved. A Ryanair spokesman disputed the RPG's figures for pilots who have left the airline, and said the company currently employs over 2,500 pilots. In a financial statement in March 2013, Ryanair listed their pilot numbers at 2,625.

In a memo sent to all pilots on April 11 by Michael Hickey, Ryanair's group director of operations which has been seen for this newspaper, the company appears to offer new incentives to pilots in order to retain them. These include an optional extra payment of Euro 10 per scheduled block [flying] hour for first officers who are enrolled in the command upgrade programme (to become captains) after May 1, and an improved co-pilots' ''stable earnings programme. The airline is ''also looking at the option of offering additional salaried contracts, through both Ryanair and third parties, according to Hickey's memo.

Ryanair spokesman Robin Kiely said the company did ''not comment on departures or recruitment.

''We have a waiting list of over 2,000 qualified pilots hoping to join Ryanair on an ongoing basis, he said. ''New base [employment] agreements included pay increases, roster improvements and other benefits, which is why we have pilots waiting to join at a time when pilot unions across Europe are negotiating job cuts and pay cuts in Iberia, SAS, Air Berlin and Alitalia, to name a few.

The company would not provide a breakdown of the split of captains and first officers employed as pilots. The former are senior to, and more experienced than, the latter.

RPG chairman Evert van Zwol said, based on information provided by RPG members from across the Ryanair network, ''we have very strong evidence to believe that up to 500 pilots have left the company in the last 18 months.
'
'There may be many reasons for pilots leaving, but our recent survey and feedback from pilots suggest it is due to dissatisfaction with terms and conditions of employment, and how pilots are treated by Ryanair, he said. ''The survey provides worrying information about the intentions of current pilots to leave Ryanair, which we would like to see addressed”.

I think I have been misunderstood.

The Cathay Pacific cabin crew used the statement "they were withdrawing smiles" as a very effecive negotiating tool with management, of course it was just a statement for the public to swallow, nothing changed in reality.

In this case with Ryanair's current PR changes, some kind of Pilot statement could also be effective.

I am of course not suggesting any real changes to the way anybody does things during critical phases of flight, that would be "barking".

So why say it? ...... unless of course you are 'barking'.

What's it got to do with dogs?