It's 66 sectors actually. And I don't see your point as the FO gets paid after being safety pilot released (12 sectors).

Despite the thread generally been about Ryanair! I know of a mate who's started at Jet2 this year, he's current and a very experienced Boeing pilot - he's on 50% reduced salary until training is finished; doing 5 simulator sessions, 2 jump-seat flights on an aircraft he's flown for nearly 10 years and 20 sectors training planned...maybe Pilot Apprentices are J2 thing!?!

This industry and it's management are nothing short of pathetic... The world has lost its way....it's not just FR! And I gather recruitment at Yorkshires Airline is ongoing due to its turnover, present intake not overly impressed either...

Not my point, an ex Ryanair guy told me he was on reduced cash until he passed his final line check.

Spandex; it's true that the salery during line training is reduced, but then again, the line trainers get extra pay. All in all, I can't see it being financially driven

Yes but the line trainers pay is increased all the time therefore you need to keep the cadets on low pay as long as possible to balance it. I can not see it not being financially driven. Spandex isn't so naive.

LTC get +10 euro gross psbh
Cadet gets -20 euro less psbh

Ryanair keeps a minimum of 10 euro psbh for every cadet during the whole linetraining + the rest of the month in which the first linecheck took place (i.e. checked on March 1 = rest of March on -20€ pay)

Anecdotes... anecdotes...
 

Putting the word "quantified" in an anecdote... well, it looks jolly good, but isn't the same thing as an actual, verifiable measurement.

I'm sure the boys and girls of FR are very well trained. I don't see evidence that they're not. Are they better trained than BA? Better trained than EasyJet? Come on, LNIDA. At least put some perspective on things. It's all very vague...

RAT 5 post 238 makes a very good point. specifically:

"but what is the cost, risk & time spent on getting them onto the line and up to speed as safe pilots? An experienced type rated F/O can be released on line with 4-6 weeks max. A cadet from start of TQ training will take over 6 months. Where is the common sense in that. If an accountant can show the cadet scheme makes more financial sense them I presume the board will buy it, but is it really true? It does seem a daft model where experience is a penalty"

However I cannot understand why a company would follow something not financially viable, and to such lengths?

Surely it must have a financial benefit otherwise it would not be considered, after all accountants job depends on them getting the best out of what money they have to play around with. Why would any accountant worth his/her salt recommend something to the company that wasnt financially viable? In this capitalistic world this isnt going to happen

I believe you are right, but I dont understand how you are right ... if that makes sense.

I personally dont sign up to the "good attitude" "one stop shop" and "known training background" now any of the other old pony originated from the ftos (nor either the best of the lot - the impending pilot shortage) you dont get anything different from cadets in comparison to experienced new hires apart from the same mix of personas with good/fine/bad/appalling attitude, the only difference is the lack of experience and background.

Cadets are essential but the ratio to experienced guys has to be correct.

I am actually also interested in whether 300 pilots have left RYR? it is an interesting development if this is actually true.

Three lions
 

I can't say if 300 is totaly correct but the evidence of those ex- RYR guys that I seem to fly with more and more seems to point to the numbers being in the order of 300 and increasing.

RYR has 3000 pilots. An attrition rate of 10% is not unexpected in any airline. This could be made up of retirements, loss of licence, moving on. I wonder how You'll see from the 3 common reasons there is a spread between the older long served veterans, the unfortunate LoL guys of all ages and the more likely mid-expereinced guys who move on. It is likely that the 'movers-on' are not from the nationals but more the next level of operators. How is the ratio in other large airlines?
What might be more of concern is if the vast majority of losses fall into the 'movers-on' category. That identifies that they don't view their company as a medium/longterm career provider. That's disappointing. It reflects on motivation, loyalty and personal investment. It also causes the in-house training dept. a lot of work and dilutes the company culture in higher ranks, or leaves a short-fall of suitable candidates for promotion.
Are other similar airlines experiencing the same outflux? I'm sure there is a vast movement of vacancies inside the industry rather like a solataire; where there is an empty hole but it just keeps moving; i.e. there is a limited number of vacancies and as people move the vacancies move rather than increase. The large movement of labour may give an impression there are countless vacancies.

I understand you're not saying that with your Ryanair hat on, but it's not really strange if people don't see it as a long term career? Unable to get a mortgage, unable to settle down at any location, tax/social insurance issues, not knowing how many standbys the winter will offer, years ticking by without any accumulated pension (unless saving privately), not knowing when the next home base opportunity will open (or stay open, for that matter), painful commuting, threats of 5/3 roster. It works for some, the prospect of PIC time is nice. But there shouldn't be any surprise why experienced FOs in late 20/early 30 that are ready to settle down with their partners, perhaps have kids, look for something better?

172: I don't have a RYR hat. My comments were about the industry in general depending in division of the league you see yourself, or want to be. The premier division would be nice for many, but as you suggest home life is high on the priority list for many. Working for a division 1 airline out of an English norther county close to home & friends might have more attractions than commuting, or moving, down to LHR/LGW. Lower T's & C's, but better quality of life for the individual. The same argument could go for those eying up the M.E. or Hong Kong. No idea what the divorce rates are these days for those based overseas, but in HK 20 years ago it was not low. Horses for courses and each to their own. Eye of the beholder and all that.

That is precisely why it will never be a long term career option. Fine when you're starting out, but that is no way to live your life.

jeehaa posts.....

"LTC get +10 euro gross psbh
Cadet gets -20 euro "

Not true. LTC's get the same sector pay as other Captains.
Cadets get less than other FO's until they've completed training.

Please stop speculating.

Not on my BRK contract they dont!

Though I do not agree that the high number of training sectors being cost related.

I was posting about RYR contract pilots, not BRK "service providers".

And how is Ryr reacting to all his pilot leaving ?

They just decided to lower requirement for upgrade to 2400h ! Nice and easy ...

Lets see what's gonna happen next ... Its gonna be a hot summer :)

2400 hrs?

What makes you think that?

Unpopular Bases are I believe those in Morocco and very much to the east of Europe. Aswell the Italian islands and Italy in general due to taxation issues.
Should be possible to get a spanish base though as there are many.
Where did you hear that they will lower the requirements? Can hardly believe you can become captain at 2400hr :\

Whilst the new initiatives may be a last ditch management attempt to attract more FOs into the pretty unpopular CU process, the 2400hr figure relates to starting that process, not sitting in the left hand seat, taking command of a 737.

Anyway, if there are lack of crews to fly the summer schedule then the damage is already done.