Slippers

How can an "opinion" be refutable?

May I ask your credentials? Your location and robust defence of the IAA and / or the business practices of RYR instil in me a feeling of the lady dost protest too much.

As an aside, if the IAA is such a strong defender of standards in aviation, why is the Republic fast becoming the aviation equivalent of shipping's Panama when it comes to registration? Genuine question if we consider the case of multinational pilots operating from a Thai base on EI registered aircraft for a company based in Norway for example? Exactly how big are Norwegian's offices in Dublin and how many are employed there?

If you cut through the routine Pprune mud slinging, I'm genuinely interested as to how the above arrangement can be effectively regulated.

I'm saying it isn't in fact opinion. It's refutable facts under the guise of opinion. Genuine opinion is just that, if you're wrong and there is evidence to show you are wrong, then it's ignorance I suppose.

I have no problem showing my bona fides - I'm SLF, keen interest in aviation. I'm from Dublin but work from London for a rather large technology company. I'm a lawyer in that company and I do Media litigation for them - I came here when I heard all the news about subpoenas, etc. back in 2012 and have been lurking ever since!

I don't frequently fly Ryanair; I prefer to fly with EI or CityJet.

My defence isn't meant to be robust. I'm not even sure it's meant to be a defence of the IAA. When one sees allegations of improper regulation or relationship between an airline and the regulator for example, one does bit of research. Like seriously ONE Google search and I found the ICAO document. Now, if we're going to suggest that ICAO is also in on the game, that's one conspiracy too far for me.

Choice of registration in Ireland is IMHO not due to lax oversight, but more to do with tax implications.

Most of those points you have stated about my views, I stand by. I disagree with you that there is no such thing as the spirit of the law. They chose which law they are going to comply with whether it be Irish law or EU, and they find gray areas in between. They have been found guilty of breaking the law in France, as a result they used their financial clout to take punitive measures against France.

They threatened to move bases out of the UK if Pilots voted for unionization. Something which a legal right in the UK.

They have throughout their history openly used threat and manipulation to strengthen their bargaining positions, they take pride in it.

I am lost when you talk of unsupported claims, most Claims I have made are well known.

This site is a lot about opinion. It is my opinion that any regulator which allows an Airline under it's supervision to employ 1300 Pilots, who have absolutely zero experience(flight school only),is incompetent. I truly find it difficult to see any reasonable unbiased argument against that statement.

freud

I actually do have no "skin in the game", and if you are not a Ryanair shill then I'm a fat welsh lesbian.

Thank you. That makes your posts or more specifically your viewpoint here more easy to understand.

The question remains for any others to answer, given that the attraction of EI registration may well be purely financial, can the arrangement I alluded to above be effectively regulated? Open question.

As for ICAO, it is an executive function of the UN. No conspiracy is needed, the facts are there for all to see and have been since about 1950. The idea behind the UN is great on paper.....

If people need to prove everything there are different limits to that as well and no one would be able to say anything interesting as to prove things getting involved in advanced science which i wouldn´t be able to do and more or less turn this into something completely different. It is a rumour network after all much more fun that way.

Since Enron´s AAA rating earlier from one of the credit rating agencies i tend take audits and reports with a pinch of salt since you need to look for specific things in order to find them.

Never thought i would be quoting Donald Rumsfeld also but here it goes, he put it brilliantly eariler.

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

For example in an audit as you cannot look for everything. All audits by the way.

I am going to bite on that as there is surely some difficulties for the regulators that rely on income from their customers and the same time need to regulate them. Especially countries with fewer airlines based there as they are naturally more dependent on each airline for parts of their revenue.

I looked through the annual report of the IAA also and what struck me was the focus on economics in contrast to the UK CAA report. The legal framework in Ireland for corporations considering Google, Apple and many more all gather there as well as Norwegian lately must be good. A corporate minded regulator perhaps and favorable tax and social charges make it worthwhile relocating there.

I looked through the annual report of the IAA also and what struck me was the focus on economics

Might explain why the cost of an IAA ATPL is 100's% more than UK or NL. The same goes for TRI & TRE revalidation's. They charge extortionate amounts. When challenged on this the IAA said they were tasked with being financially self sustaining, and that it was normal for airlines to pay these costs not the individual pilot. Extraordinary!

Polax 52
 

Howdy !
Free speach is aperantly a hard to come by.
I am not shure were You have Your knowledge from, but it I the truth P52.

Some geniouses have the last 4 days aparently taken offence, most probably since thay know You are right.
Lately the irish tiger has gotten more in hot water as reshufeling in managment has resulted in severe stress to the orgenisation with regards to day to day rostering.
This is not the end, not even the beiginng to the end. But it is the end off the beginning.
Soldier on, remember Norwegian LongHaule is registered in the socalled competent IAA,,, aiming to unfairly compete against EU and US long haul.
The battel is now.

Have you ever considered learning to speak and write English?

Whatever do you mean Dear old boy.

You represent the incompetent brit attitude we all now suffer under.
Brits are the main reason Jar ops , Jaa and Eu ops do not work.
Not because i do not bother to chec my spelling on a roumor network.

Do they speak Ingerlish in 60N?

BluSdUp
 

Norwegian (long haul) sought an AOC with Ireland for a number of reasons and light touch regulation wasn't on the list far from it.

Firstly Norway does have an open skies arrangement with Europe, but whilst that allows it to fly Norway to anywhere in Europe it does not have the same rights to fly from Europe to the US, hence the need for a European AOC, Norwegian could have used any other European country to obtain this and did indeed look at UK as well as Ireland.

Ireland has a number of advantages over other European countries in this regard, they speak english and they also use the Euro a currency in which an increasing amount of Norwegian's income is now billed, they also have low rates of corporate tax and have a long established history in aircraft finance and leasing.

The UK lost out for a number of reasons, not least is the business risk that it might leave the EU at some stage, higher taxes and currency fluctuations.

Norwegian labour laws are an heavy burden on its employers and the need to compete across Europe with Ryanair, easyJet, AirBerlin and the legacy airlines is very difficult with Norwegian social taxation.

It's worth remember that only the long haul operation of Norwegian is on an Irish AOC but of course many of Norwegians pilots work for contracting companies, but these are well known agencies and a very different set up from the one used by Ryanair often referred to as service companies.

Norwegian have of course caused a storm in labour markets in the USA and Europe, but it is difficult to see how the DOT in the US can block their route licence application to fly from Europe to the US if they are on an European AOC and thus fall within open skies agreement. I don't see an Irish AOC as a flag of convenience and there is no serious suggestion that safety is at risk. There is of course a lot of vested interest in keeping Norwegian out of these markets.

I'm not really sure what to say to that. I'm certainly not going to give a toss what you think. At the end of the day, I saw statements being posted here which I knew to be untrue and backed them up with evidence.

I'm not really sure what your weight and sexual orientation has to do with this though?

Deal with your denial issues before demanding integrity and veracity from others.

By what measurement, or yardstick, are Ryanair pilots trained "very, very well" above and beyond an industry standard? Or does it just sound better than saying FR crews meet the minimum requirements, along with every other carrier. That's it. This thorw-away line keeps getting propagated as some sort of justification in Ryanair's defence, so please quantify it rather than offer the usual anecdotal enthusiasm for such a statement.

Journey man, I'll have a go at quantifying that for you with a simple analogy ...
My spaniel is trained well, we'll above normal training for a domestic animal, he comes when I call, and sits when I tell him, above all he knows who his master is and will obey every command without hesitation, thought or question. No matter how badly he is treated, he'll still turn up for work.....er I mean he'd still wag his tail.

Well trained :p

Okay, that's a fair comment Journey Man,

I will admit that a certain amount of the statement is my own personal belief/feeling, but also based on knowing several of the trainers, many current RYR pilots, and working alongside ex-Ryanair employees. Their (RYR) operation on a normal daily basis will see crews exposed more readily to more NPA's than many other airlines (experience), the SOP structure is very rigid, the knowledge that is demonstrated seems to my eyes and ears, to be sound (or I'm plain thick and lack understanding - which is possible), and technical knowledge is taught to a very high standard, with excellent material from what I've seen.
The above is only said as my experience leads me to believe, and I would suggest that the above is, as mentioned, equally true at many other carriers - but this thread is in relation to RYR. Now, I'm not RYR's biggest fan I will say, and purely I base this on comments I've made previously.

A good response, but it's all very much subjective and I'd question whether you have experience of other carrier's training programs from which to make such a comparison?

With the NPA argument it could also be claimed that bizjet operators are therefore inherently safer due to their exposure to smaller airports.

To add balance, it cannot be subjectively argued that Ryanair standards are lower than the rest of the market either. I've no doubt the folks up the front are well trained; but likewise I'm sure your colleagues in other airlines are too.

Very true, I am basing my posts on operating at 4 different operators, with 3 being biz-jet, and the fourth being airline (just to give things a little background, and from where my perspective is based upon).

You could reasonably argue the point with biz-jet operators, agreed - although I do know that we are straying into another topic, that has numerous different points that could be raised ;-)

Didn´t know the difference was that much between IAA and others RAT5. Good to be self sustaining not to bother taxpayers but the same time the word does have a rather wide meaning also.

Maybe the plan, actually i am pretty sure it is, is to to sell Ireland as a aviation hub and attract airlines and customers. That´s all fair enough in my book but it depends on how it is done also. Costs for pilots should be competitive thinking about all revenue pilots actually provide to the regulators especially in cases where they have to fund it themselves. Ryanair Airlines requires it contractually for whatever reason, earlier for sure, possibly still does, leaving you with no choice but to lap it up like a pussycat.:p

But where it get´s even more interesting is when some say the regulation is not what it could be, whereas others think it more or less deserves a spontaneous round of applause and the wave when mentioned. From my experience i am with the former not only due to the emergency exit issue earlier which make you wonder if sometimes innovation take the upper hand over safety at times. Flying around with the emergency exits unmanned because no one has paid some more money for extra legroom in combination with something happening on takeoff run requiring an evacuation make it seem that way then at least.

Bit of a chat leading to different thoughts exposed to each other and some clashes, nothing to get to tense about or playing the lawyer card for really.

I will defend this opinion also. But only if i can afford it. If i can´t - i´ll issue a statement in time to the contrary. :eek: