Dear cucuotto
What do you mean about developing countries pilot ?
Would you please let us know what is the relation between a country and professional pilot careers ? In cockpit will your profession and skills conduct the aircraft or your nationality ?
I saw some guys here talking about Turkey as a third world country with below standard working conditions etc, if you believed that you are from a first world country with pretty higher standards, ok why you waste your time with turkish operators ? Why you do not work at your own high standard country ?
In my opinion, a safe flight is conducted by professional careers and skills not by nationality. Nationality has no priority over profession.

Cucuotto and Pork Flyer contribute nothing to these forums and simply display racial attitudes towards any threads. I doubt if they are real pilots maybe trolls or scammers but appear to have no real knowledge of the aviation community or the profession itself. Best approach is to ignore them completely. This time next week I will be working for NASA or MI 5 if their guesstimates are anything to go by!

I am NOT working in Turkey but I have friends that do ( most probably not for long) and tell me stories... Would it be fair to say that we can expect , on average ,an higher level of professionalism in certain environment or regions of the world if compared to others? Would you rather go under surgery with a surgeon with a degree from a premium North American medical school or one that got his degree in Bangladesh ? We are not all the same in aviation. Its just automation that is creating this impression. Its easy to confirm this from statistics on where accident happens most frequently or on airlines safety. You can tell me that I'm racist but this is not about race, color of skin its just about cultures, sociology, organization. licensing methods, training environment, resources. Some countries are aviation safety friendly , others are NOT. Face it. And its seem like Turkey is, due to the poorness of their T&C is now attracting pilots that would most probably not be able to join other more "competitive" environments.

Thats exactly the same bull**** chinese media are writing about expat pilots....they are here cause thay cant get a job in their own state airline ...
Most guys i met were from major airlines,defunct or on furlough...
THY selection process doesnt fluctuate with the TL...but again maybe youd like to ask the ex Emirates guys who joined THY if they think they are the bottom of the barrel....
Foreigners represent apparently 10 % of the work force..failure rate always been 70 %...fair or not ...either way it seems even pilot shortages dont change their selection process.

@Kirks_Gussett yes you can do 3 on 1 off at Pegasus but you are on unpaid
leave for 5 and they take 2 of your off days to make up the 7.

Cucuotto
 

Mann you need to go up the jungle and drink the coolade! The education system in America is abismal and your ref to a surgeon is pathetic. If got a degree from any American prestigious college your daddy paid for it, does not mean you have any skills or intelligence ...look at the previous President, C- from Harvard and lucky if IQ makes the figures.
As for Bangladesh, I would choose that surgeon every time and twice on Sunday as they say.
I have 6 ATPL s from 6 continents and have worked for 10 major airlines and all went broke, if you live long enough you will witness the same. I am going for SXS assessment and would be very proud and happy to work for that airline and live in Turkey. I have worked and lived all around the world for 35 years in aviation, have 23,000 hours and 14 type ratings, never failed an exam or checkride or anything else and have no accidents or incidents. The emergencies and tech issues I have dealt with were dealt with calmly, methodically and logically without complicating the issue.
So please don't judge others motivations for joining an airline. If you are a pilot, I would almost guarantee you do not have a job and can't keep one due to your poor ATTITUDE towards others. I have worked with more than 36 nationalities of pilot and if I had to fault any of them it would be the North Americans most of whom do not seem able to stay on speed, they are always too fast on the approach, like to exceed flap speeds, kick rudders unnecessarily and have extremely poor radio skills, and will never say Mayday or Pan, preferring to errr err um err we err have err um err maybe err problem here and err um etc etc.
The world is getting smaller and smaller, diversity is necessary and good for business so I would suggest if you are an aspiring pilot, think about a career change, because we don't need your attitude in any flight deck.

Topic already covered in Ryanair thread.. not free type rating as you are bonded by bank guarantee letter or cash deposit, i.e leave after 12 months and loose 10K Euro! So McGinley speak with forked tongue!

Dear flydog
Thanks for your post. You are completely right. Cucuotto seems to be a scammer not a pilot or in best scenario the who has been fired due his poor and racist attitude. I saw his useless and racial post in other turkish airlines forums.

I have just successfully pass the DEC assessment. I found them really straight forward and honest during simulator and interview. Also the terms & condition is completely difference with what is written here. At the moment they are recruiting only for Ankara base for at least 2 years. Any base change shall be after 2 years minimum.

The type rating is not free. 15000 euro deposit is required but after 2 years it will back to you. And there is no notice period before 2 years.

Capt143
 

Can you PM me, are you already type rated? Plus have other Q's

Avenger
 

ALARM BELLS GUYS,
Not sure that sounds very ethical, SXS nominate mcGinley to get them pilots and SXS provide type rating, line training and experience and then McGinley actively encourage you to break that contract and go to RyanAir!
Are McGinley looking out for your career or do you think they get more money and benefits from RyanAir!!! Per pilot??? " It's all in the Bung "
Who in their right mind would work for Ryanair flying a toilet stinky aeroplane under constant threat from company. If you do not have the honour or loyalty to the company who trains you and provides your experience for that short time, then you deserve a sentence at Ryanair, who will provide nothing but stress and the constant threat of losing your license and career.
If the above is a true communication from McGinley then .......Strongly advise STAY AWAY from both mcGinley and Ryanair

Capt143 stop pumping For CAE/ Parc...you are the scammer not me. Call it as you like it but none of my relatives and friends will ever put a feet on an Iranian or second tier charter Russian crisis hit overworked pilot flown airplane and stay well clear of any Turk operators.They will keep flying Lufthansa.

Coucuotto
 

Give it a rest, why don't you.
My last sim partner was from Iran Air, worked extremely hard, very knowledgable and excellent pilot, similarly the Russians I have flown with, not spoiled and able to problem solve and improvise with the best.
You sound like you belong to a bunch of Nazi's...stay in that circle of family and friends and leave the rest of us alone.....oh wait a second ....wasn't it one of those subsidiaries and specially chosen guys who recently and deliberately with total disregard for others took an A320 and all its passengers and his colleagues into oblivion!
You stick with that circle because we professional pilots don't need your attitude or your negative contributions associated with our Profession.

You don't need to go through an agency for SXS: The link in English is here:

http://hr-link.net/Home/detail?id=12...No=2950&LangId

Apparently, McGinley make it clear on their advert for SXS that the contract is a reducing bond over 2 years, in addition to the training costs not being refunded if you leave within 2 years, there is a penalty to pay based on salary, not sure how this works and they were not giving any clues either. McGinley principle grassland is Ryanair and one assumes they want a constant feed pool of pilots to retain that " special relationship" As highlighted, it is the " pilot's integrity and wallet" that will suffer if they choose a company change within the contracted period and the agencies coffers that swell as a result. 2 years will be about 1700 hrs, not a bad figure for the portfolio if non-rated and at least with SXS you know the base from day one and they pay the hotel and transport during training period, unlike the "other lot" Sadly, these days everyone is out to make a quick buck and job stability comes a poor second..

Cucuotto
 

Very nice you are flying Luft, so why Lufthansa personnel stop working due to low salary and working condition just couple weeks ago ? ;) ok go and enjoy your faithful circle because your poor attitude makes you no seat in any cockpit. You are so free that everyday make useless and racist comments in all turkish operators forums !!!

Capt 143..you keep insisting. I understand pilot IQ has dramatically lowered in recent years. I and my family and friends fly Lufthansa because statistic say they are a safer operator and they ate safer because in Germany there are no shortcuts and pilots have balls enough to strike for their rights and don't fly 119 hours per month with 7 days off do you understand?? Lufthansa hasn't crashed a plane every two years like THY to make it even clearer. Cheers.

Cucuotto,

Air France crews go on strike,and yet...
Enjoy Lufthansa...their chocolate cake is my favorite..:p

Cucotta, before making remarks on other people's intelligence, please be informed that this thread is about SunExpress and not Turkish Airlines.

Sometimes Cucuotto, it is not what you say, but the way that you say it.

You are right. I don't work in Turkey thanks God but I heard stories of terrible English levels questionable training practices and knowledge as a consequence of this . I had friends there and I have also seen stuff. I remember more specifically a roster with a string of 4 days off starting after a 11.45 pm arrival and ending with a duty just after midnight on the last day. We have to compete with people accepting this **** cause they are coming from even ****tier places bringing down the all European aviation to third world standards. People that has no idea of what a decent lifestyle is..just looking into money �� at all costs . De Facto regardless comparing the AF accident at night in weather due to a confusing malfunction with the slamming on different runways of two perfectly functioning Airbuses is not really fair .Since you seem to call for political correctness you should be ashamed of your self.True this is Sunexpress forum but I have the feeling that the Turk operation is some how as crooked as the local parent company.

"my friends say" and "I have a feeling that" are maybe not the best sources for information when going ballistic on bashing thousands of peoples' way of putting food on the table, on a public forum.

cucuotto, we can see your patent frustration with anything related to Turkish, nevertheless, as pointed out, this thread is about Sun Express, an airline you apparently now endorse as they are partly owned by lufthansa and enjoy the same safety rating:

Airline Ratings.

I assume, as they are "Germany based" you have removed SXD from your vitriol although founded by the Turkish operation, initially supported by the Turkish Operation and piloted by many from the Turkish operation? And of course Eurowings LH which will have some ex SXS Crew?

Are you suggesting that if a pilot operates from a German base they suddenly become more statistically safe than when the same pilot was flying in Turkey?

One assumes your point is the safety net of the EASA FTLS? As for seeing "stuff" yes we all see " stuff" especially through the bottom of a beer glass..

I don't drink my friend sorry to disappoint you. I must assume THY is now a lost cause as you are now into pumping option B Sun Express.The non type rated DEC DEFO deal must be a very good one for Parc/CAE...

Sun Express has never hired an agency to recruit the pilots on its behalf and has no plans to do so. Pilots sent by the agencies were accepted for testing as were those applying direct so one can cut the waiting time and spare some cash by going straight to HR.

Contracts that stipulate the penalties should be paid if pilot decides to leave early are both legal and enforceable - within Turkey's borders. There are folks who decided they will never, ever set their feet again on Turkey's soil so just left without goodbye. Then there was one who wanted to make clean exit so agreement was reached that working one year less than was contracted should cost him 21 000 € (quite less than originally agreed), payable by forfeiting deposit and working one month without pay.

Moving over to RYR makes financial sense if one already possesses some real estate near the expected base.

The life at SXS varies by base, AYT and ADB bases do mainly international legs with occasional domestic thrown in all in the SXS livery, whereas SAW and ESB bases are really just domestic Anadolu jet bases for THY operations and the going is tough. Many guys are leaving, even those in the upgrade process as the Anadolu jet operation out of SAW is crippling, the main reason guys want SAW is the connections to Europe. As mentioned, at the moment SXS is really only recruiting for ESB base where commute options are available, but Pegasus has muddied the waters by offering commute from SAW, albeit, 5 days unpaid plus use of 2 annual leave days.. At the moment SXS is one of the few that pay Captains in Euros and that can give a slight buffer. Some SAW based guys moved to AYT and ADB bases where more days off are given, on the other hand a fair few night flights are rostered. In terms of living costs, SAW is the most expensive option with rents twice Antalya and Izmir. Horses for courses..

I don't claim to know anything, I'm just wondering if you can speak fluent German and be happy living on 4K€ net as NTR DEC?

This job is really going nowhere. I don't find anybody else to blame than the pilot category that never did anything to safeguard its professional pride. The job hasn't changed we too often are. No pride no self respect only interested in our short term interest and falling down to the lowest common denominator.Way too many enthusiasts wasting parents money, too many shortsighted individuals that do not understand they are digging their and others professional grave. I personally saw it coming and I'm ready to bail out should it become unsustainable..and its getting there. 4000 euro is a good salary for an employee working 8 to 16 and sleeping in his bed but not for having on your hands the life of hundreds of people. Passengers should start asking them selves questions as well. Who would accept that responsibility and all the downsides on the personal side for such low wage if not the mentally disturbed, the megalomaniac, the loosers that could not get into a real profession ( including legacy carrier ) or art , those frustrated and full of complexes finding in an uniform their revenge to life and the all assortment and shades of imbeciles . This business, out of a few exception, and especially in Europe is becoming apparently more and more their realm. Managers are barely shooting on the red cross and receive no counter fire..can we blame them?

Pilot resources for the Eurowings operation has been reorganised and some DEC type rated interviewed . The " internal job offer " stated fluent German required. Some SXD captains may have done conversion from 737 but no firm plans yet. The Eurowings deal is not the same as the 75 percent SXD deal

SunExpress does not hire non Turkish pilots?
What if someone is ready to pay for their type rating?
And if not first officer then what about Second officer? :ugh::ugh:

Only Turkish FO apart from the Stella guys from last season re employed. No 2nd officer positions at SXS. Latest guys totally sponsored by company zero to 737 type but contract is 10 years and they were selected over a year ago on a one-off scheme when DGCA put 10 percent limit on foreign pilots. Can't buy your way into SXS or THY but maybe Atlas Jet if you speak Turkish

Would any Ankara based SXS captain be able to share some (unidentifiable) details about the commuting roster. I know you get 7 days off at the end of your month, but what about the 3 weeks before this? How bad is it? Some extra ideas about the days off / working pattern would be ace before I say 'yes' to them.

Thank you!

Expect minimum rest according to turkish CAA. 8hrs rest, several night duties on a row, 6/1 pattern, 12hrs of standby not accredited as duty, average of three roster changes per day, late checkout before your off-day and early check-in the day after. The rostering is a complete horror story.

At least the rating is refunded and apart from the disastrous rostering it's not a very bad place. If you need the rating and time, it might be a good option but be warned about the crew planning.

A 330
 

Dear fellow colegues,

I am A 320 driver and got an answer to my application for the A 330 Sunexpress Germany, they want to look in my past DLR Tests and then maybe i can join the 2nd stage in their assesement.
I didn´t find anything about the Reruitment and conditions for the A 330, could you shed some light....

I heard Base will be Cologne EDDK in Germany.....
-where will they fly to?
-What will be the initial salary and Flight Pay?
-How long does it take to command?
-is this a long term contract between sunexpress and EuroWings/LH?

Please send me a link where i can the info or let me please know the details, with my best regards

There is very limited information regarding SXD T&C's. They have recently published an ad requiring experienced senior F/O's for a quick command upgrade, the way I read it is as being recruited as an F/O and then being put straight on a command course.

There's no mention of any part time contract so it seems to be a full time position and permanent employment from day 1. The only question is, what are the T&C's and what would a typical roster look like? The only official info is that the remuneration will be as per the standard contract in place at SXD. One thing that seems a little bit odd is that they required ICAO level 5 German on the license, I wonder how that can be added for us Auslanders...

Regarding the assessment, is it the standard Hohnerbach test + sim check that everyone seems to be doing? Thanks for any info.

Instead of soliciting gossip and unqualified rumours from this forum would it not be more practical to get the actual T+Cs from the advertiser?

If it was that easy I would obviously not go looking for info on here! :ugh:

are they still giving you 8 months of salary for 12 months of work?

That's what I'm trying to find out, there's no mention of any part time work on the ad at least. My guess is that they're losing a lot of pilots to the A330 fleet and don't have enough experienced FO's for upgrade.