Are they taking experienced expat FO's again?

It's not year's average. Could be summertime one.

DGCA rule regarding foreigner FOs
 

Does anybody know, if there are foreigner FOs being currently hired, other than those coming from Stella?

I have heard that the turkish DGCA wants to reduce the number of foreigner FOs working in Turkey to leave space for new Turkish graduates. Can anyone please send me a link to that rule? I have searched the DGCA website, but didn't get the information.

Stella is the only way unless you have a Turkish passport or have alot of experience combined with very good connections.

Thanks for your answer.

Do you know, if there are any restrictions from the turkish DGCA concerning reducing or stopping low hrs. foreign FOs to be flying in Turkey? If yes, can you provide me with a link to their published rules?

thanks

It's here somewhere on the forum but it's in turkish. Yes there is such a restriction regarding low hour FOs but I don't remember any details. That's why companies only take people through AB-Initio schools paying them money to take their students, or like atlas and freebird selling line training.

The turkish DGCA rule for foreigner low hours FOs
 

I searched all over the forum, I went to the DGCA website, Google was my friend and Translator, however I didn't find it. Can anyone provide me with a link?

I get contradicting news from the turkish carriers. On one hand they are still hiring low hours pilots, on the other hand some refer to a DGCA rule that I've never seen on their website, and on a third hand (if this term is correct), they do accept foreign LowHour FOs who buy their own TR and LT.. The question is, are these FOs kicked out after the 500 hours LT or do they stay longer till they at least break even and leave with 1500+ hrs ?

Anyone here who had the experience?

This the problem they will change the rules as suits them. We went from IST base is growing to oh its closing to oh sorry we need 500 people in IST to oh it is probably closing again in say 3/4 of a year. You never know. This job is great for a purpose. Get the type rating, you ll gain some amazing experience flying wise and cultural wise which you ll take with you for the rest of your life and the money is quite good if you get paid in Euros. But your are a guest in a very proud country. A temporary guest and sometimes an unwelcome guest. Know this accept it and you ll have a great time and have a plan for the future as this 100% is not a permanent gig for anybody but the Turish. All my humble opion ofcourse.

You are confusing some companies: Freebird, Atlas and Pegasus used to do LT programs. SunExpress has never done line training programs but used to have a one yearcontract to start you of with. The reason they are still hiring and training low time FO's is because a lot of foreign SXS FO's went to become FO at Turkish once they had enough hours (SXS is a joint venture between Lufthansa and Turkish airlines)

The rest is 100% like DutchExpat is saying..

Just a warning for all the low hour expats wanting to work in Turkey. Unless you have done your national service or bought your way out you will not be eligible to work in Turkey as a pilot.

@Fanor, I you are referring to military service, then I can inform you that you are incorrect.

I'm telling you this from first hand experience dealing with sun express and freebird airlines. No national service = no job.

Fanor,

Yes,this is correct if you are a Turkish national.
Obviously, foreigners are exempt:rolleyes:

Yep. That's why I said "expats be warned". But they are cutting foreign pilots now, or will be soon due to a new DGCA ruling on the percentage of foreign pilots they can have.

Fanor, no there's a big batch of people on the way in, DECs and first officers from Stella.

They will never require a foreigner to have their military status completed. So nothing to be warned about.

There is a limitation on the amount of foreign first officers that they can have, that is true, but nothing regarding DECs. Also for the Stella guys, they have a way around this limitation. However the future is uncertain regarding how much capacity they will produce, therefor there are no guarantees.
But where do you have any guarantees?

Update: Low Hours FOs for the aviation job market in Turkey
 

I conclude, concerning foreign low hours FOs intending to work / fly in Turkey:

1. Concerning SunExpress: Stella is the only way to step in, provided that the FO is under 32 years of age.

2. Everyone has heard of the DGCA rule limiting the number of foreign FOs, but noone has it written or can provide a link from the DGCA website.

3. Everyone knows that Turkish Airlines is in bad need for pilots. Any chance to slip in for an EU foreign low hour pilot? On their job openings at their website it's officially not possible if the applicant is not a Turkish citizen, or a foreigner without experience (hours on jets). HOWEVER, I do hear from time to time about freigner low hours pilots who slipped in. Any contact / Email to send an application to?

4. As for buying a TR and LT at Atlas Jet / Pegasus / Freebird, I didn't find such information on their websites. I believe, the deal should be done through a sub-contractor. Can anyone here provide me with a contact?

Thanks

Assessment
 

Hi folks!

Is there anyone who could share his/her experience with mollymawk screening and the next stages afterwords?

What is the current situation at sxs, oulook, t&c's, atmosphere....thanks in advance:ok:

I spent about three weeks solid preparing for mollymawk as I was at school some time age. It is do-able with preparation unless or without if you have not long finished maths/science GCSE/A'level.
Working memory test is what everyone finds most difficult.
Sim OK but also a couple of hours practice before is big help - Virtual Cambridge. Raw data departure, engine fail, NDB approach that sort of thing. Allowed to use the FPV.
Interview with HR, pilot and German psychologist who makes you feel at ease and then tries to get you agitated or angry - asks bizarre questions of which the answer is probably not that important but the way you handle them.
On line, interesting work, but very hard work. The roster is often a work of fantasy and subject to constant changes. Eat, sleep, fly mostly. They generally look after you ok and leave you pretty much alone to get on with the job. Others may see things differently to me - best of luck

ANy idea when they will recruit expat fo's again?

They recruit some Ab initio pilots from time to time, but it's only from one contracted school which supplies as many as they can legally have. Expansions seem to be over and don't count on a way in other than as a DEC or Stella graduate.

SunExpress recruiting foreign low hours First Officers
 

Good Day,

As seen recently on their website: http://hr-link.net/Home/Index

It seems they are taking Turkish citizens to train them at Stella, in addition to that, they have an open vacany for low hours FOs.

Can someone please elaborate on that, if foreign ready entry FOs can apply, or is it ment for Turkish citizens as well?

Cheers,

The last bunch of Stella Guys joined about 2 months ago in Antalya, they had been waiting for a while, their initial interviews where back in Jan/ Feb.
At the moment there is no plans to take any more foreigner FOs, SAW base will contract and some guys will have to move to other bases. Recruitment of Turkish Nationals is always on-going.

So if I get this right, you are telling people who are working or have been working there to think twice about what they say. And you haven't even worked there yourself... :ugh:

I am not telling people who work there to think twice. They already know what they have. I am giving my own advice to the people who come here to have some information and read the comments which were made by people who like to produce a lot of rumour.

Advice please
 

Hi guys, just got called in for the 3 step process for sunexpress, do I have to do the mollymawk test before or on the date that they have planed, also I'm a uk citizen with the right to have a T.C. citizenship, I done a European English aviation language test but never herd of TOEIC would I be required to still acquire this certificate ? And would any body have any ideas about the technical questions ? I APPLYED for the FO position I have 228 hours total


:hmm:

How did the English test go?

Very funny DutchExpat. My thoughts exactly.

@Djelal: Do you have turkish nationality and an University degree?

No I havent got a university degree, Im not a TC Citizen at the moment but I have the right to become a Turkish citizen from my mother and my wife, also spoke with irmak yetkin she told me tht I do require a TOEIC test

FIRST OFFICER
Genel Nitelikler

We are looking for Turkish First Officers and a good team member, who will be based in Antalya or Izmir
Min age of 21 years
Min CPL (A) / IR (A) Licence and IR on multi-engine aircraft
Have MCC course
ATPL (A) theoretical knowledge exams passed
Have a valid JAR FCL 3 class 1 medical certificate
English language proficiency for F/O candidates must be;
TOEIC (Reading 385, Listening 400, Speaking 160, Writing 150)
TOEFL IBT (Reading 22, Listening 21, Speaking 23, Writing 21)
Have university degree
No obligation of military service for male candidates

Normally they will require the Mollymawk results and TOEIC results as part of the screening...but.. if you have HR email its an easy enough question to ask and they will give you the heads up. Don't forget you have to pay 30000 Euro for the type rating as the bonding system is gone apart for ex military guys, they have the cost deducted over 5 years and have reduced salary.. You used to be able to supply a letter of guarantee from the bank but since so many " jumped ship" without meeting their obligations the system has changed.. reverbs on the thread : pilots pay to fly" and people ask why!

@djelal
 

... and you should be fluent in Turkish!

Will Sun Express still be flying the A330s for LH's Eurowings longhaul operation? If so, are experienced 737NG pilots transitioning to the Airbus or will they bring in Airbus-rated pilots?

Provided Eurowings LH operation really gets off the ground, do SXS/SXD have surplus of pilots they can send over?

If I may speculate, they would probably take people from LH to start the ops. Even though they have many people with experience on the 320 in SXS/SXD, I think setting up a long haul ops on a new aircraft type will be difficult without some help from outside.

Since the Eurowings probably is a way meant for LH to move the longhaul production to another lowcost subsidary, there will be plenty of laid off Lufthansa guys to do the operation :rolleyes:

They have already started transition courses for ng Captains already based at SXD and about 8 Captains will transfer from SXS to SXD to fill the gaps.

Rumour has it SXD currently pays its captains 6000€ net per month worked. If it's true, is the deal sweetened somewhat for 330 capts?

is there anyone on the site that will be attending the mollymawk test on 27/02/2015 for sunexpress at antalya ?

Sun Express Germany
 

I received an invite for assessment for SXD in Berlin. It's a 2 day assessment including a sim check on a B737 Classic.

Does anyone have any info regarding the selection process, i.e. the sorts of questions asked, the content of the psychometric tests and the sim profile? I'd be very happy for any information anyone might have.

I applied for an FO position and have several thousand hours B737NG time and speak fluent German.

Sun Express Deutschland
 

The assessment is conducted in Berlin by Aerologic. After a brief introduction and a quick presentation about the company, the first phase of the psychometric tests starts. The tests are multiple choice and are completed on a laptop. There are 4 tests to be done, starting with a general knowledge test with questions mainly covering German politics. Following this test, there is a relatively straightforward B737 technical test, followed by a test covering ATPL questions covering a wide range of subjects but yet again, these are fairly straightforward. Once these are completed, there is a visual perception test with a cube containing a twisted cable pictured from various sides and angles and you have to identify from where the pictures are taken.

The maths test works as follows: there are 2 sequences arranged on top of each other, and if the result of the top row is bigger than the result of the bottom row, subtract the bottom result from the top result, if the result of the bottom row is bigger than the result of the top row, add both results together. The catch in this exercise is that occasionally, even if you enter the result correctly, there will be a message saying it was wrong, and sometimes a new question will only appear for a few seconds before disappearing. This is probably done to add pressure.

After a quick break, the tests continue. There is a test covering concentration and reaction, where you have to watch an old fashioned radar screen where the radar blips are shown as triangles and circles, and you have to press a button every time a circle shows. There is a long English test which is straightforward and covers things like identifying missing words in a sentence, identifying spelling mistakes and word association. Some of these sentences are badly worded and will appear to have no correct answer. The next test is based on technical understanding and shows pictures of cogs where you have to identify which way they are turning. Once this test has been completed, the next test covers logical understanding, and shows several symbols, where a matching symbol has to be identified from a list.

Spatial awareness and understanding is then tested once again, with an exercise where cardboard cutouts are laid out flat and pictures of the completed structure are shown, where you have to identify the correct one. Following this exercise, a similar one follows where symbols are shown and you have to identify which symbol fits it correctly as a mirror image.

Memory testing: Information regarding a business meeting at a hotel is presented for 2 minutes and you have to remember as much information about the details as possible. Pay particular attention to the symbols shown. The trick with this exercise is that after the 2 minutes are up, a quite complex maths test follows. The test itself is straightforward, but quite longwinded. Once completed, questions regarding the business meeting follow, especially covering symbol recognition and numbers.

Then there is a test covering information processing. As the secretary while the boss is away, you have to sort through, save and reply to e-mails. You have to decide whether to save the e-mails externally or internally, whether to answer them or whether to save them internally or externally. On the whole, this test is quite straightforward, however, there is considerable time pressure.

The last test is psychological profiling, where you have to answer 210 personal questions quickly and whether you agree or disagree with the statement.

In general, the atmosphere during the assessment is friendly and relaxed. There are ample opportunities for breaks and food and drink is provided throughout the day. The sheer amount of tests is quite overwhelming and keeping up concentration is challenging. The day starts at 9 am and there is non-stop testing until roughly 4:30. A good level of German is required, conversational German will not be sufficient to understand the quite complex questions using technical terms. One thing that was said in the introduction however, was that language difficulties are taken into consideration.

To prepare for the tests, there is an online test facility (German language only) available on www.der-eignungstest.de that quite a lot of the tests are based on. Some other tests are taken from Hogrefe Hogrefe, Verlag für Psychologie and I'm not sure if these are commercially available for practice.

Once the tests are completed, there is a break before transport is provided to Lufthansa Flight Training for the sim check, which is done on a B737 Classic simulator, but there have been reports of depending on availability, a B737NG simulator being used.

The sim check is flown with no flight directors and raw data only. The detail is flown at Stuttgart EDDS, RW25 SID DKB8B. When established on the outbound radial, ATC will provide a radar heading and issue a climb clearance to FL100. Once level, ATC will ask for specific speeds, speeding up to 310 kts and then immediately reduce to 220 kts, followed by increasing to 250 kts again. Then 2 steep turns are requested, to the left and right, before proceeding to LBU VOR and then entering the hold over LBU. ATC will ask which hold entry will be performed and after less than 1 lap in the hold, a radar heading is given for radar vectors for an ILS approach to RW25. Hand over control, set up and brief the approach, and then report ready to ATC and the final vector will be given. Cloud base is reasonably high, so you become visual fairly quickly.

Following landing, the aircraft is repositioned on the runway for a LOFT exercise. It is a V1 cut with severe engine damage, profile to be flown is exactly as per current SOP's. Once the problem is dealt with, radar vectoring for an ILS RW25 are given to a landing, upon which the simulator session will finish.

If you have never flown a B737 Classic you are in for a surprise. The instrument layout is quite different and the engine displays are not as easily readable, and handling is a lot more sensitive than on a B737-800. It is also worth mentioning that LIDO charts are used for the assessment, they are quite difficult to read if you're not used to them. You will fly with a SXD captain and can occupy either seat, and you are told to use your current procedures. The PM will not do anything not asked for, and clear briefings are expected.

The next day, an interview follows. This lasts about 45 minutes and the 2 sim check pilots plus the psychologist are present. Initially, the test results and the sim check are discussed, and then personal questions follow. There are no surprises, they are the usual, what are you strengths and weaknesses, what do you know about the company and why do you want to work here, where do you see yourself in 5 years time, etc etc.
Then some technical questions are asked, eg PTU, landing gear transfer unit etc. Some further general knowledge ATPL questions could also be asked.

It is fairly extensive testing and the tests, although none particularly difficult, are challenging due to the sheer volume and the time pressure involved. The sim check is fair and relatively straightforward, and the interview is set up as a cross examination, with the 3 interviewers on one side and you on the other and that can be quite intimidating. However, the entire team is friendly and quite relaxed.

Thanks a lot november sierra! :)