PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Terms and Endearment (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment-38/)
-   -   Monarch Anyone? (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/486524-monarch-anyone.html)

SEAMASTER 31st May 2012 12:13

PPJN has all the upto date info, expect on average to fly between 60-80 hrs a month unless you have leave in that month of course !

Honda-pilot 31st May 2012 14:06

I am just looking for a simple answer should you apply by the application forms on Monarchs website or not? If so why not?

Flightlevel001 31st May 2012 15:21

Honda-Pilot, if you're unsure - do both!

It all seems a bit vague at the moment and the application forms on the website are pretty generic, not really flight deck orientated...

As has been said before, i'm sure more info will filter out in the weeks to come. You certainly won't be missing the boat by waiting a while I'm sure.

Burpbot 31st May 2012 19:44

Are they ever going to pick the people out of the existing pool? Or is it another type rated/ctc only gig?

tom775257 31st May 2012 20:08

I would think it would be worth giving them a quick call if you are waiting in the pool.

I called them after having been in the pool for 6 months having heard nothing, they offered me a job later that day. I'm not saying that will happen now but perhaps worth a shot if you haven't.

Tight Seat 31st May 2012 20:37

Be pro-active, it will help.

monkeyferret777 2nd Jun 2012 11:36

Can anyone tell me the rough take-home pay for an Fo each month inc sector/per diems etc?? 3500?? Less, more??

MaxPower2011 2nd Jun 2012 16:04

For a A320/1 year 1 FO, 3500 is about right as a take home average give or take a couple of hundred depending on time of year. That's assuming no student loans, pension deductions or overtime (of which there is plenty at present)

bb503 7th Jun 2012 13:20

T's & C's
 
Hi All,

Am doing some thinking about this Monarch business, but am in the fortunate position of having a job already, so it would be a sort of sideways move rather than just paying the bills, were it to happen.

Because (I'm assuming) MON soon pretty reputable, and you don't get too many folk complaining on here, I can't seem to find too much info on what life's like for FO's on the smaller airbuses. Can anyone shed any light on the lifestyle? For example, LGW based 320/321 scheduling & nightstops? Home most nights? 5/2 6/3 etc?

Thanks to anyone on the inside who can shed some light.

Aviator74 7th Jun 2012 15:00

On the 320/321 very few night stops, only the odd charter (I have been here about 5 years and only had 5 and 3 of those were tech stops). Roster wise there is nothing as structured at 6 on 2 off 5 on 3 off or anything like that, u get what u get which is all rostered within the scheduling agreement and usually have your roster about 6 weeks ahead, you can register up to 4 VIP (confirmed days off) in any month and you can ring fence duties so they can't change you from the early to the late etc.

Over the last couple of years only about 15-20 have left (thats my best guess not official).

There are New bases this year, and a fair amount of expansion planned.

The family are still interested company seems to be doing well, and is a key part of the group. MAEL, Cosmos, 1st aviation, Avro etc would all suffer if the airline dissapeared.

Alexander de Meerkat 7th Jun 2012 21:38

I fully understand someone who does not have a job, but has a type-rating, going to Monarch. I even understand if you are working for an Eastern European outfit or similar and feel the need to return to the UK - Monarch fits the bill. What is very intriguing, however, is the fact that a significant number of easyJet FOs are applying, which seems to be a backward step. Many of them feel the difficulty of not having permanent contracts yet, and I can only express my sympathies for them and my frustrations with easyJet management for creating a situation where they felt they had to leave. It is, nonetheless, an incredibly unwise move on just about every level. You will wait forever to get a command in a Company where the future, at its most generous, is not overly bright and fly old banger aircraft that are all different. If you are a young person with 18 months at easyJet, by all means leave to join British Airways, Cathay or even Emirates - but Monarch or Virgin? This is not sensible.

Cheapshoes 7th Jun 2012 21:41

Alexander

You forgot to add the statement "in my opinion" and to acknowledge the fact that you aren't in fact capable of predicting the future.

Makes you sound a little arrogant.

go around flaps15 7th Jun 2012 21:43

Old banger aircraft?
 
Mon have a significant fleet of FBW Airbus aircraft and probably expanding with more to come. The 757 and A300s will proabably be phased out too.

Good company and not many pilots complain about working there.

I think your post is quite flippant and I completely disagree. I think a move to MON from any low cost is a step up.

babotika 7th Jun 2012 23:20

Hardly wishing to take sides I would hazard the guess that AdM was referring to the comparative age of the aircraft the fleet. Some of their aircraft, although they are 320/321s, have been around a while and been sourced from different places which means their configuration may vary slightly - unless they have been refitted.

Of course perceived "age" has a lot to do with maintenance and how much use the aircraft gets. Some of the orange 319s look like they have been flying non stop for 20 years, whereas a 20 year old 320 I flew a few years ago looked brand new.

As to EZY versus MON - as an example - again it all has to do with perceived stability, satisfaction and morale. It is very subjective and personal; a permanent job in what could be considered as a less "robust" airline may be better for some than no contract in a more "robust" airline.

BlackandBrown 8th Jun 2012 08:04


I think a move to MON from any low cost is a step up.
In what respect?

A permanant contract with Monarch looking at the present may well be a step up from a pay by the hour Ryanair FO contract - I too would probably make the move.

When comparing it to a permanant FO contract with easy, particualy on a mainland Europe contract it is a no brainer in my opinion - don't move.

The middle ground is easyJet FlexiCrew......I honestly don't know what I'd do - resign myself to never having a planned future, no guaranteed income, no proper pension, no structure, no respect with a view that the Middle East is a possibility OR join Monarch, a company that right now offers a reasonable amount on a permanant contract. However I think all would agree, if they were to put their money on an airline not being around in the next 5 years then it'll be Monarch. That at least seems to be the opinion with everyone I fly with. If that happens then FlexiCrew, the Middle East or the Far East are going to be the only options for the vast majority if they wish to continue being a pilot......and they're lucky.

'Better the devil you know than the devil you don't'

Anyone joining a privately owned company which discloses nothing and does things like Monarch did earlier this year where their CEO made a rapid exit, never to be justified or replaced should approach cautiously.


I'd finally close by saying Monarch is quite a small airline where I'd have thought 'everyone knows everyone'. People from bigger airlines may not find this comfortable.

MikeAlphaTangoTango 8th Jun 2012 10:54

AdM

You're not *seriously* suggesting that an FO is better on FlexiScrew at eJ than a permanent contract at MON are you??! If so, can you tell me where I can get a pair of those rose-tinted specs you're wearing please?

I'm Off! 8th Jun 2012 11:30

What MikeAlphaTangoTango said...

Permanent job, vs Flexiscrew with no guarantee of anything. I know what I'd do...

i_like_tea 8th Jun 2012 11:33

I'm easy (not flexi anymore!) and in Europe and very happy with my deal and lifestyle and have no intention of going back to the UK (even if they do know how to make a proper cup of tea and not just hot milk with a dash of brown).... however, I have to be very honest if I were still flexi (especially the CTC contract) and if I wanted the UK (which a lot do) then this would be a fantastic opportunity.

Let's not forget that with project Merlin, where are the openings for flexis to get a proper, non pay per hour contract in the UK in the foreseeable future? They're just not there and everyone is sick of the emails offering European contracts saying "but do not apply if you'd like a UK base, opportunities will be available soon" which has been the same story for the last 2 years.

As I said, I am really happy here in easy, but it's not all like this for everyone sadly

P.S Adm, a young person with 18 months in easyJet? That's less than 1500 hours (by quite a long way) and so Emirates isn't an option and you need at least 1.5k for even the Second officer programme at Cathay

alpha.charlie 8th Jun 2012 14:43

Possibly, a few did join earlier this year. Manchester and Gatwick for the 3 757s

HPbleed 8th Jun 2012 15:29

AdM, we met at OAA the other day and you either felt sorry for me or didn't want confrontation but you did not say any of that to my face.

In my defence - I failed the BA selection, not enough hours for EK, I've been on flexicrew for over 2 years, my first year I flew 900 hours, this year I have flown 700, which is a DECREASE in pay. Merlin hasn't produced anything at all. My circumstances mean I want to stay in the UK for the forseeable future.

For me going to Monarch is not a backwards step. I have 1800 hours, at eJ I am still an FO (not really an issue) getting paid by the hour. At Monarch I am now an SFO, on 48000 basic plus flight pay. During my groundschool with Monarch I got paid allowances - not at eJ. My uniform has just turned up - paid for by Monarch. It may be a longer time to command than eJ but their expansion plans are looking at an extra 8, possibly 18 aircraft over the next 3 or 4 years. Rumours are another 100 FO's over the next year. There is the oppurtunity of long haul (at the moment anyway), which appeals and with those expansion plans the time to command won't be that long. Even if it's 7 or 8 years it's still less than BA. Do you think that easyJet are going to keep expanding? I don't think there will be much more - everything will slow down then, and guess what - flexicrew commands, think it won't happen? Rose tinted specs.

20 year captain is on 117k plus flight pay - almost as much as you! TC's earn another 25k on top of that. Base trainers another 10k. What is so good at eJ that would keep me there?

MaxPower2011 8th Jun 2012 17:17

As someone who has worked for both having done 3 years at easy before moving to Monarch at the beginning of last year, I can honestly say (in my opinion) Monarch is by far the better airline to work for. Comparable pay, better rostering, better pension, human management, guaranteed summer leave, better scheduling agreement, V.Strong BALPA representation to name but a few reasons.

I flew with some excellent guys at easy, but found the morale to be generally quite poor and fatigue was definately an issue. At Monarch we are working hard at the moment, but much of this is voluntary and is well rewarded. Even with this I am nothing near as tired after a working week as I was at easy.

I also have it on decent authority from people a lot more in the know than myself or some of the other speculators on here that Monarch's future is quite rosy, all the cost saving targets have been met and Airframes increasing by 20% next year (rumour has it they're even brand new A/C). 3 new bases and a number of new routes.

Artic Monkey 8th Jun 2012 17:35

Maxpower

Do we know what the new bases are? EMA is obviously one.

Thanks.

windshear-a-head 8th Jun 2012 17:41

Think LBA is another, EDI the third??

bill b 8th Jun 2012 17:50

Not to mention lots of chit chat about 6 A330's. :ok:

Robert G Mugabe 8th Jun 2012 20:13

Please will Monarch take some of our cadets and flexicrew as I am tired of listening to some of them them whine on about ( in no particular order )

1.How life is so unfair as they deserve a permanent contract.

2. How they cannot afford to live on the money

3. How they are not getting enough flying

4. How they cannot maintain proficiency with the amount of flying they do.

That is despite some signing on to the very terms and conditions that enable easyJet to use and abuse them. Some not bothering to get their heads in the books to read their way around the aircraft. Some having a lack of awareness and no will to get the job done ( much preferring to pose in cheap sunglasses and pontificate with their other newbies or infront of the cabin crew)

rant over

P.S Not all are like this but the vast majority are arrogant self centred mummies boys and girls. :{

i_like_tea 8th Jun 2012 20:15

RGM, are they the same ones who refuse to take a european contract too?

There are opportunities, you just have to be ready to commit and change lifestyle.

P.s My RayBans aren't cheap.. :E

assymetricdrift 9th Jun 2012 08:56

Please tell me that this is a chance for all of us who are rotting away in turboprops in the places where Monarch have bases, and equally the bmiBaby guys and girls and not a total and utter jump across from Orange land...

The Orange Army have helped contribute to a large T&C drop across the whole industry - sadly unchallenged. They are not the only cause, but they are in there. It would be nice to think that those of us who have been stuck on turboprops for as long as can be remembered, will finally get some recognition.

Here's to hoping, however, my cynical side says "The Orange Army paid once, they've already shown that they are the cheaper option".

Good luck to the turboprop and Baby guys. I hope you all get it... :)

Field In Sight 9th Jun 2012 09:19

From what I've heard, we will take easy flexi pilots and CTC but will be mixing that up with experienced Turboprop/military etc.

Advert should be in Flight on Mon.
Good luck to those that get into what is still a very good airline.

BlackandBrown 9th Jun 2012 09:43

Monarch are expanding to:

1. Compete against easyjet at LGW, MAN and LTN - our 3 biggest UK bases, where they have lesser economies of scale, higher crew costs, less diversification (business/leisure route mix), older, more fuel hungry, more maintainance hungry aircraft and a lesser known brand.

2. Take up routes/ slots that previously failed for an airline that had the backing of one of the biggest most successful airlines in the world and couldn't be given away.

3. Monarch as a brand could never enter the lucrative business market so they are expanding on high risk leisure routes which have a more target rich focus.

So all the altruism, great blokes, lack of complaints, lack of tiredness and wonderful union representation in the world isn't going to prevent the inevitable. I've said it before and I'll say it again, raise your chin and look ahead.

Hand Solo 9th Jun 2012 09:51


Monarch as a brand could never enter the lucrative business market ....
That's exactly what was said about Easyjet 10 years ago.

londonmet 9th Jun 2012 10:33

Yes but BlackandBrown was probably doing his 11+ exams then so wouldn't have known! :ok:

BlackandBrown 9th Jun 2012 10:41

Was it? Do you have a reference? Or was it someone on pprune? Many on pprune are very wrong! And if you agreed with it, look how wrong you were too. Easyjet has an unbiased, multinational, simple brand. Monarch is a chintzy jack of all trades stuck in the 70s.

Here's a question, what happens when the old guy dies?

gunka 9th Jun 2012 10:47

The "old guy's" son has already taken over and they don't have to go cap in hand to the bank for a loan or worry about public perception affecting share prices, they have the funds to fuel their train set and seem happy to do so. Huge investment in the future to drag the operation out the 70's as you say. Not a short term act.

BYMONEK 9th Jun 2012 12:42

BlackandBrown

I think the word 'clueless' springs to mind when I read your last few posts. Whilst it may be the oldest surviving original named charter airline, and may still be somewhat of a gentlemans club when it comes to flying, underestimate this Company at your peril. You have no idea who's behind it and what incentives there are to ensure it remains in business.

When the old man dies, a new godfather takes over and the firm keeps going. Simple! ;)

londonmet 9th Jun 2012 14:23

BlackandBrown,

Stuck in the 70's? Yes part of it is, you're actually correct here. They've been around a long time doing what they do best. No rapid expansion or taking risky gambles. It seems to have worked for nearly 45 years.

Now...lets look at a few of the massive low cost airlines in the world with huge fleets operating for very small margins and how the effect of a rise in oil price could have on their sustainability? :ugh:

Hand Solo 9th Jun 2012 14:47

Funny how that 'unbiased, multinational, simple' brand is completely different from the Easyjet of a decade ago! Don't believe us? Why not try watching some daytime TV reruns of 'Airline' to see what the orange cult used to be. Leopards do change their spots.

ZeBedie 9th Jun 2012 20:32

Black & Brown, you may be right, you may be wrong but I'm very pleased that I won't have to share a flight deck with you :rolleyes:

Devils Martini 9th Jun 2012 21:36

Monarch Anyone?
 
B&B, thank god you're stuck at EZY because it means I'll never have to waste my life meeting you.

To anyone thinking of applying to Monarch, please do so. A fantastic airline to work for and I'd recommend it any day. The facts stated on this thread about life at Mon are entirely correct and you'll never look back!

What's more you won't have to fork out for a rating!

Good luck.

Robert G Mugabe 10th Jun 2012 00:40

Rather a lot of experienced Monarch FOs' came over to the orange side to get commands.

I would suggest most aiming to leave the orange bunch for Monarch are low hour dreamers hoping for a miracle. Monarch will provide a temporary home for a few mercenary types until they have the hours for the middle east carriers. No loyalty or integrity amongst some of the flexicrew and cadet ranks.

Monarch cannot compete with the Locos' on price , convenience , cost base , market exposure and finally economy of scale.

They are a good little " momma and pappa " type of niche business which will bumble along nicely as long as they do not try to take on the multi nationals. I fear they might gain market share in the short run but it will be at the expense of earnings per seat and will not be cost effective in the medium term.

BlackandBrown 10th Jun 2012 06:12


Stuck in the 70's? Yes part of it is, you're actually correct here. They've been around a long time doing what they do best. No rapid expansion or taking risky gambles. It seems to have worked for nearly 45 years.

And now it's all change for Monarch, turning their back on what worked. And at such a poorly timed moment. You completely proved my point with what you said, re read it. It has worked for 45 years, no rapid expansion, surviving on a majority charter market with quiet winters. Now it IS rapid expansion, a big scheduled shift, trying to take on 'big business' people with lots of money at their disposal.

As for saying you wouldn't want to fly with me, that's your problem not mine, you're the one clearly so easily affected. I've said nothing personal, I've offered an opinion to try and help raise people's awareness to potential pitfalls that may befit someone taking this job. I've said what I've said with BA but if you can't see a move to Monarch is so far from a necessarily long term sensible thing to do then you're either selectively blind, a massive risk taker or one that requires instant gratification.

To brand Roberts post as utter :mad: without justification shows what a closed mind you must have. You can disagree but you should not do that, it is ignorant.


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:14.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.