Virgin Atlantic Pilot Strike Ballot
 

Now this has been all over the news but I rarly seen any information or comment on PPrune.

Does PPrune have a private agenda?

Virgin pilots 'to vote for strike' | Business | guardian.co.uk

Virgin Atlantic faces prospect of its first ever strike just as it celebrates landmark anniversary | Mail Online

No hidden agenda just a bunch of professionals doing their best to avert a period of chaos to holiday makers over the summer. However, the vote just released is 97% in favour of industrial action. The last chance for an incompetent and arrogant management team to offer a fair deal. I suspect Mr Branson will have to get involved to reach a compromise. In any case a very solid and unequivocal result from the pilots.
Good luck to the flight crew.

Result in...

BBC News - Virgin Atlantic pilots vote to strike

From the Telegraph article:

"Virgin's captains are paid around £70,000 a year"

How accurate is that figure?

Media lies
 

The crass UK media get it wrong again, deliberately. Virgin do not focus on holidaymakers, and the strike timing is therefore unrelated to the cheap holidays of the great British unwashed to Disneyland, etc. Any old lies to flog newspapers and gain attention.

And good luck to you Virgin pilots. You've got more balls than your lily-livered colleagues at TUI, Thomas Cook and Monarch.

The contre-temps between Branson, an acknowledged pilot-envy sufferer, and "his" pilots should be fascinating.

Well done to the guys and girls at Virgin for having the bottle! Good luck in the coming months.

Anyone NOT convinced by 97%? I thought Mr Ridgeway looked quite haggard on tele tonight................

Roy Hudd
Just remind me why "lily livered colleagues" at TUI, TCX and Monarch are requiring of a pair?
What is the TCX pay award in Apr 2012?
How about TUI and Monarch?
Facts please!

Virgin do to a large extent focus on holiday makers. Look at how many 747s with 400+ pax they send to MCO at the weekend. Indeed, VS has been described as a holiday company with an airline attached.

Also, the press will always report (and sensationalise) stories like this through the impact on their own readers. That's their job. The impact on the business traveller flying at someone else's expense is of no concern to the press.

Not seeking to take any sides; just trying to explain.

I note from the FAQ on the Virgin website that they claim they will wet lease aircraft in the event of a strike. Where will they get these from?

Transparency is todays watchword. Everyone wants to see everything laid out in front of them.

In the case of the VS pilot workforce turning down 4% this year and 3% over the next 2 years, the missing bit is 4% of what?

I know it's a harsh world outside my fur lined rut so I swallow the bitter pill each year and accept sub RPI/CPI increments. Didn't BA pilots similarly swallow a couple of years back, hacking off BASSA at the same time?

Two questions, if answered honestly, will bring clarity to this discussion and as a consequence support from some and anti sentiments from others.

So, what is the spread of earnings p.a. for top of the scale down to entry level? And how many duty hours a year are worked on average to attain that income?

I feel support for their position if the ballot for industrial action is turned into a reality may be hard to come by outside of the industry. Nevertheless, the sight of the Bearded One stuttering over a TV interview could be worth it.

Sir George Cayley

Sir George
It seems perfectly clear to the Virgin pilots....

Singapore Airlines won't be too happy as they strive to sell there 49% holding.

As is usual in all the crass reporting, a lot of facts are missed out. The dispute is not only about pay rises (or lack off) it is also about the incompetent managers and broken agrements....always more to a story....

Any Virgin drivers know/want to list their exact demands on here to us mortals as there seems to be a few issues according to the guys I've spoken to??

All the salient issues have been discussed before on the site and long before the vote. The search engine will lead the way.

The VS pilots have done this before a good few years ago and have a very effective and pragmatic view of whether informing outsiders is a primary goal or not at any given time.

There are fundamental changes in the way we are used to seeing our remuneration rise in line with inflation or in the case here remaining static in turbulent times. The Public sector are coming to terms with changes in their penson schemes for example and taking action they believe is necessary.

The World is changing and for many the the way things used to be will forever change. An employer must make themselves attractive to retain the staff they require by matching market conditions. Similarly if the market rate is down then be prepared for tough times....

Not taking sides here just pointing out that there will be changes for many employees in the coming years and sadly I fear not for the better...

What's the consensus on this then? Are airline pilots paid above or below what they should be?

Airline Pilots are paid what they negotiate. Like any other profession.

What the,

But if new start up airline "ABC airways" comes along paying its pilots 10% less than the current average and then your airline tries to negotiate a 4% uplift what are you told? "Nope, can't be done if we are to remain competitive".
The same could be said one year later by the pilots of "ABC airways". They could want the 10% to bring them up to the average plus the 4% the others are asking for.... They only get what they're given at the end of the day.

So although I partly agree with you what you say I believe isn't strictly true.

Those salaries aren't anything to write home about after you take weekend and night flights into account. I suspect the refuellers are on a better screw than the F/O's.

Stick to your guns; as someone said many years ago "Show me your paycheque I'll show you your status".

Now how much does "old beardie" take and where does he take it.

No one outside the Communist Party wants to strike. For 97% of the Virgin pilot force to vote for one indicates a serious amount of disaffection. This from pilots working for a Company with an excellent reputation with the travelling public. That reputation is in part due to the pilots.
Hopefully, the vote will concentrate the minds of both sides in the dispute and a meaningful offer will be forthcoming.

Virgin chiefs receive pay rises despite job cuts | Pay and Benefits

This may help explain some of the anger!:mad:

Good luck to all the pilots at Virgin Atlantic making a stand against the bearded one. Worldwide static display threat will concentrate the minds of Virgin management. I wish the pilots at bmi had similar cajones!

Great going lads! Nice to see your CEO (and many others) helping themselves to large increases. Stand your ground. Don't cave in like your cabin crew did a few years back.

Good luck, I suspect you won't be the only pilots looking to strike over the next year.:ok:

Yes good luck to those pilots, I hope you can find time for those most likely to be affected, not your bosses but the people who ultimatley make sure you have a job. No SLF no airline.

Both me and my wife have had either below inflation rises or pay freezes over the last 3 years, we have saved like mad for a special holiday this year after 3 years of no holiday, only to realise that it could be ruined even before we get there.

As a member of the great unwashed you will struggle for sympathy whilst others have a far harder struggle for a lot less money.

Virgin don't want to pay the going rate for long haul pilots. Do you think if they told BP they don't want to pay the going rate for fuel that they'd be flying any aircraft?

As for the comments about overpaid pilots then let them employ average British workers to fly their planes. Uh oh - There's a flaw in that argument too.

Pay the pilots the going rate for their skills and you won't have any disruption. If they can find £47 million to pay the fines and costs of their CEO's price fixing debacle then they can find the few million extra to fund the difference between the sub-inflation offer and the going rate the pilots expect after their salary sacrifices over the last three years.

Not too much to expect but thanks to an HR head who has promised the board that she can break the last unionized group within Virgin we now have the potential for a strike. Aside from the disingenuous utterings from Ridgeway and SRB about everyone else accepting the company offer, they didn't mention that the "offer" was imposed, not accepted as all the other workgroups are not as united and organized as are the pilots.

Whilst I understand your frustration, your thoughts nicely sum up why the UK has become the low cost/low quality country it is now. Sometimes you just have to stand up for yourself and if you don't you become a beancounters wet dream. I left Virgin a fair few years back (how is Ridgeway still there?) and I have a family holiday booked which no doubt will be affected. However I know that the VS pilots are making an important stand. After all the last decent pay award that VS pilots got was after one of the CC unearthed that there was a sizeable amount of money ending up offshore.

After all the last decent pay award that VS pilots got was after one of the CC unearthed that there was a sizeable amount of money ending up offshore.


I'm shocked ..........................................................no t

Your holiday probably won't be ruined if it is ATOL/ABTA protected, you'll probably just end up on another carrier.

Striking has become quite unfashionable over the last few years, but the blame has to fall on fat cat or incompetent management, rather than the put upon workforce irrespective of their income.

I suggest you write directly to Richard Branson and complain about the way his managers are running his company.

:ok:Best of luck to the professional pilots of VS! You will never win the sympathy or understanding of the public - so dont try!(especially with the UKs gutter press on your backs). You know what you are worth, stick to your guns. If only more pilots would stand up for themselves sigh!

I don't know, have I missed something?
I wonder, if after the receipts based exercise last year when it was decided by HMRC that duty pay should be taxed at the full rate, has been forgotten by those who cannot understand the frustration of the pilots. Yes they earn okay money for their responsibilities but with the tax changes, paying the full amount on duty pay and probably being at the bottom of those losing their personal tax allowance they and I am up to UKL 400 a month worse off with no prospect of a pay rise, (actual take home pay), without either a substantial pay rise or major salary sacrificing, which doesn't help much with inflation at it's current rate. We have had a serious pay CUT since this time last year. No wonder people are fed up.

Peedoff
 

I assume that you were aware that Virgin pays below the going rate before you applied for a job with them. Therefore why didn't you go to work for a different company?

The warnings were clear enough and went unheeded. VS will now reap what they have sown.

Insty66 sorry to read that you and your wife work for companies that value you both as they do, and sorry to read that you and your wife, and your work collegues dont care enough to stand up to your companies to try and better your pay . Your reply is typical of this countries me me me attitude, if i cant have it then nobody else can! You moan that for the last 3 years you and your wife have had under inflation pay rises or a pay freeze so what have you and your wife done about it? Obviously nothing! Virgin pilots are doing something about it though, 97% of BALPA Virgin pilots feel that they need to stand up and show the company that they are not happy with the pay at Virgin and are willing to withdraw there labour. I would bet that not one of them actually wants to strike, and not one of them wants to mess up your holiday, but they are willing to show Virgin that as a workforce they have reached a point and need to show the company how they feel, when was the last time you showed your company how you felt Insty?

Who says Virgin were paying below the market rate when I applied for the job? What's your point? This is about what's been happening for the last few years.

This is about so much more than pay. 97% of a professional body one of very few professional bodies at VS are in total agreement that the current management is inept. It has systematically removed any element of enjoyment from this company.
It constantly undermines the decisions made by pilots, it has handed all direction to HR who know nothing of a pilots lifestyle nor working pressures. It shows absolutely no respect for its pilots, this is then filtered through the food- chain to crew and ground staff alike.
Many pilots have been disciplined and even fired for minor and sometimes fictitious events. The fleet management are totally invisible and only interested in safeguarding their pension and income as well as picking the nice trips and events.
A pilots word used to have credence as a respected professional but at VS, should a pilot dare to speak up he would definitely disciplined and probably fired.
Yes, pay is an issue but not the only one and I would dare to say not even the major one. Reform is needed here or the airline is no longer viable for pilots to work for.
Promotions are another issue, new joiners can expect around 20 years to command if ever. There is no system in place for any career progression. A sad, sad state of affairs and a very unhappy place.

AFA
 

Well, as a free agent, take your excellent skills to another employer. I've done this twice since leaving the RAF & on each occasion have become considerably better off.

Well done you. That's precisely what I plan to do