Also heard it was yesterday so I suspect there's a lot going on behind the scenes

Wow that is good to hear, maybe common sense and fairness will prevail? Hang in there BALPA.*Although we had all expected a much harder fight from the Virgin managers, and a lot more threats and bluffs! They havent even yet claimed that the airline is about to collapse because of the greedy Pilots, or that richard is now going to be forced to sell Virgin to Ryan Air to pay the bills! I was looking forward to a lot more drama and *exaggerated tales of doom from "The Office" . *After all, *Virgin are the masters of spin and deception, especially where money is concerned! *During the Cabin Crew dispute, the message was "take what's on offer or leave" why haven't the Pilots been given that message yet?*And I wonder what Singapore Airlines thinks of all this mess? I doubt if they are very impressed with how the money they invested is being frittered away and squandered by such an unnecessary public squabble. *And what will all those potential buyers that are hinted at by the management think ?*

Does anyone think they could close the airline down on a Friday and restart it on the following Monday with new contracts for everyone?? I suppose if that were possible Wille Walsh would have done it with BA a long time ago.*

However, talking to our passengers, they just want the service to run on time, as published with safe and happy Pilots! Most just think Richard will pay the earth to make sure he has the best Pilots he possibly could. After all didn't he offer to Double Capt Sully's salary if he came to Virgin ??*

Latest:

Turbulent times for Branson's racing mate - Business Analysis & Features, Business - The Independent

BALPA - BALPA DISAPPOINTED IN VIRGIN CEO'S COMMENTS

Hi Virgin Mary

I've been pondering on what you said too about Singapore Airlines, and it struck me that the interview in the Independent (link above ) was a bit passive agressive.... do you think Steve Ridgway actually wants a strike so he can a\ restructure or b\ devalue VS temporarily so that SIA will sell their stake for a lot less than its worth just to offload a liability and leave the door open for VS and\or other potential partners to buy their stake at a bargain price??

Hypocrisy from the Virgin Mill-Owner yet?
 

Has Billionaire Branson appealed to the pilots yet? His style is sneaky and always with P.R. in mind; I'm willing to bet that he'll start off telling the pilots that they are letting down a winning team, etc, etc,; If no success, he'll start to apply pressure and threats through his management as well as push for public/customer pressure against the pilots.

And this time, he could have met his match!

Not that I wish for this at all but I have a feeling the pilots will lose this battle.
I just hope that the BALPA subs will be money well spent for the VS pilots.

BALPA have said there will be a further announcement today.... judging by the lack of press coverage the negotiations must have been very serious the past few days..no idea which way it will go at this stage

BALPA - BALPA DISAPPOINTED IN VIRGIN CEO'S COMMENTS

Incidentally, I'm not sure this was a wise choice of words on Virgins Customer Help pages a few days ago, even if it was a direct response to a specific customer question

I am really angry that your pilots are affecting my holiday plans

If the VS pilots hold their nerve, they'll win out. Simple as that. Good luck folks, it'll be unlikely they ever get to action the strike.

BALPA - VIRGIN UPDATE

Not sure if this is good or bad...... will have to wait till Monday at least....

Not spotted and bridges nor foundations as yet. Maybe we all find other jobs by the time it's sorted :ugh:

Perhaps at this time of delicate discussions with VS management, BALPA should heed the wise words of a former IALPA rep who once sublety said: "A reasonable man gets nowhere in negotiations."

It is incredulous that Steve Ridgway does not view a below inflation rate as a pay cut. His slip is showing - in more ways than one.

Unless things ARE being effected in the background as they should be, even more incredulous is the fact that Ridgway is somehow coveniently ignoring a 97% stand up and be counted vote for industrial action. THAT is a massive vote against the managment of VA for a just and proper increase. It is certainly something for RB to act upon even if his 'mate' doesn't like it. The future of VA is at stake and it would not be the first time that someone has said that Ridgway is out of his depth.

Jim McAusian of BALPA says:
And how lacking in humility not to face the fact that 97% of his pilots chose to vote for industrial action for the first time in their history which has a whole lot to do with an antiquated and out of date management style at the top of his company.’

He doesn't just have a point. He has it in one. It means that unless Ridgway/Branson agree to meet the demands of the pilots, Virgin will be in very serious trouble. Better men than Ridgway have fallen in the wake of stupid mistakes.

Saying to pilots what they said to CC - 'if you don't like it, leave' - would be crass. Only pilots fly aeroplanes.

If there is an annoucement today, it had better be a good one!

That sounds threatening, I bet Mr Branson is quivering in his beard! Seriously though, Branson also has a bottom line to consider & if he decides that the wage demands cannot be afforded then maybe the strike will take place.

What happens next?????

If it turns in to a Mexican stand-off, of any notable length, then Virgin Atlantic will go t1ts up.

Book with BA? Err...no thanks.

As for Virgin, no problem with the Pilots. I am however furious with Virgin Management for seemingly allowing it to come to this.

In a nutshell from an outsider, it seems like Virgin were having a hard time during the recession (same as other companies), and they asked people to not have a payrise to help the company through troubled waters and that they would rectify this when these troubled waters were calm.

Pilots etc all stepped up to the plate to help the company thorugh. Seems like the company has now reneged on the deal and offered a seemingly lower than expected rate.

4% and with the rate of inflation at 5% is this not a 1% paycut this year? Is this a too simplictic view? Have I got this wrong? I am not in the profession myself but it just seems that people helped the company only to have this basically chucked back at them.

I do not want to fly with an airline that can do this to its own staff. I will fly Virgin this year (unless there is of course a strike) because I've already paid for it, but give Virgin anymore business? Definately not.

Personally, since the downturn in 2008 I had no rise in 09 and a 2.2% in 2010. In fairness my employer never said we were going to get more and maybe Virgin promised their pilots more and have rescinded. Its just the way the industry has been. Everyones feeling it.

I think VS went for 2 years without a rise which is quite a cut in real terms. That's why they're not happy with less than rpi/cpi whatever they use for this proposed deal. I don't the bearded one will let his beloved airline go t**s up!

How have senior management fared financially over the last three years?

"How have senior management fared financially over the last three years?"

Aha, well isn't that the million pound question...?!

It's a game of political will and VS management are playing their commercial trump card. It's an obvious but nasty tactic as far as the pilots are concerned. Branson wants the public to believe that his flight deck are holding the airlines fortune to ransom. What a load of bollocks! Mismanagement has VS in the precarious situation that it faces. This used to be a prestigious carrier that commercial pilots aspired to be part of. Now it isn't. That isn't the fault of the pilots. Keep your chin up guys, I wish you well. Good for you for showing your cojones!

My pay has gone down over the last year and its a simple equation. No pay increase I get to keep my job. There's faults here on both sides with the pilots but mainly with the VS mis-management.

The Bearded one should be sorting out some of the VS managers who have been there too long and believe that they are God. They should go and be replaced by people who can assimilate to the current trading conditions; not behave as if they were still stuck in the 1960's.

If you can find anyone like that in airline management, every company in the world would be competing to take them on!

Totally agree Dan Air 87, however I think there's some politics at play here too.... namely an HR chief who wants to be VS CEO and wants to break the unions to get there...

I suspect you and I have both seen the cost of mismanagement in the shape of Capt Mayes enrolling John Olssen, and David James trying to pick up the pieces....for a very high fee, and at even great greater cost to most employees back in '92

If you want to know the blueprint for how this dispute at VS will roll, you only have to look at the cabin crew dispute at BA. Not many pilots on this forum had any sympathy for the BA cabin crew, and in fact many BALPA members undermined the cabin crew industrial action.

Now BALPA members at VS are going to be on the receiving end. VS is in a precarious position financially, and quite possible would have gone under if it wasn't for the windfall of BA passengers over the last 12 months. I suspect that Beardy is sticking in a load of his own dosh to keep his 'hobby' airline flying, but if the pilots spoil it for him, then the plug will be pulled.

VS's "Four engines for longhaul" fleet is a handicap. BA for instance reckons its 744's are only economically viable if oil stays under $130 a barrel. Fortunately the trend in oil prices at the moment is down.

VS is in a coffin corner for so many reasons: Such a relatively small point to point operator, in the world of huge alliances cannot survive anyway. A pilot strike will simply expedite its demise, and Beardy will for evermore be able to blame BALPA and its members for causing VS to go tits up.

That just won't happen. Virgin is a brand name with very liitle substance apart from it's image. If VS is allowed to go to the wall, the whole of the Virgin empire will be tarnished and substantially devalued. VS was already in trouble prior to 9/11 as a result of some bad business decisions, not least the re-branding of the J class product and that terrible seat. After 9/11, the airline was only days from going belly up with some drastic actions requred to kepp it and the whole of the Virgin empire going.

Richard couldn't let it happen then and won't let it happen now.

Mr Dan,
that would be an interesting bet......If we assume that BALPA and members do have a strike, and a "real" one rather than the few days of hoilday taken by BA CC, which way will the bearded one jump?

Impossible to tell.

If I were him, I would let it go, and go off to Necker island and drown my sorrows with a few glasses of something nice. No-one owes VS a future.

I would then sell my lhr slots, and VS would go down the tubes.

From his Island, the Beardie would win the PR war 3 sets to love, and BALPA would look stupid. Nothing new there, then. How would SQ feel? Who cares?

So the pax will be let down, and the VS staff would lose their jobs.

I might be wrong but I thought BALPA said another announcement would be made yesterday?

I agree with Dan, VS is the flagship of the Virgin brand... and the brand value's reputation - based on Sir Richard's 'ethical' treatment of Virgin employees - would be shattered irreparably - it goes against everything he has ever stood for, built his empire on, and sold countless books about. In short letting VS go would destroy Sir Richards credibility completely.

An yes, BALPA did say there was an announcement due yesterday, and no change on the website which means things must have ramped up yet another gear in the meetings I guess.

Whats interesting if you look at various travel forums, newspaper comments is the travelling public who cant, or dont want to understand the real reasons behind the strike - have been saying for days now that they are shifting bookingsto BA etc as they are now 'sorted' and there's uncertainty over Virgin. Virgins efforts at keeping the public up to date have been pathetic and someone there needs a good kick up the backside for that imho.....

The talks are still ongoing.

There is some real bo!!ocks posted on this forum. Some obviously wishing Virgin to go under, BALPA to fail and see SRB squirm.

97% of 94% of the membership voted to do something about numerous poor decisions past. Yes pay was what we voted on, but it's the whole package. (those who have forgotten or don't realise you can only vote on a single aspect re industrial action)

All we wish for is a well run company that pays industry rates for the experience it needs for a safe operation.

There are enough CEOs out there in differing companies who prove it can be done if there is a will to do so.

Hi Xray 1. Hope you didnt think that was my angle there... it wasnt

I still believe VS is a superb company, and does not deserve that reputation to be tarnished by a few individuals at management failing to recognise those very issues you mention and deal with them fairly and promptly.

I do think though that every day that goes past with no updates to reassure pax and just keep them informed, even if there's no 'news' on VS's website is very unwise.

Well said Xray, as a side note though I dont agree with strike action I do feel that such an overwhelming vote in favour of striking sends a clear message to the leadership (And maybe prompt a bit of C.V writing from some)

I'm a passenger and yes, thats what we want. Some idea of what's going on. Just something saying the talks are progressing well (or not) would be good. We are heading to peak holiday season and there are an awful lot of families desperate to know something. The current silence from both sides is hopeless. You must remember than many of the people flying over the summer only take one flight a year. This period of uncertainty with no information will live long in the memory even if, as I sure we all hope, there is no actual walkout.

I make no comment about the dispute itself. I don't know the history in full or the internal disputes over management. I just want to see a settlement.

vs69
 

That's exactly what the BA cabin crew were told by their union leaders ....:ooh:

Virgin Atlantic pilot strike: no news is very bad news

Note: first paragraph.......

It is looking rather ominous and an interesting conumdrum is in prospect. If the strike goes ahead, Virgin will sub out some of its flights to BA no doubt and other airlines.

Will BALPA members with other carriers cross this 'picket line' so to speak?

With even RyanAir talking about laying up 80 planes this winter, a strike now will certainly knacker VS before the loss making last six months of the financial year.

It is interesting Virgin have not esclated the dispute by threatening to remove striking pilots staff travel for life. Perhaps Beardy is not as tough as Willie Walsh after all.

This is a fascinating exchange, especially as it is based on a pay rise, rather than a departmental restructure.

Quote: "How have senior management fared financially over the last three years?"

Aha, well isn't that the million pound question...?!


Well nearly...our man Steve is on 750k

can he calculate v speeds ...no
can he put 300 tonnes down in x-wind chop ....no
I can do without 74 acres in the caribbean and I'll gladly fly the ship for 10% of what he makes.
What I can't stomach is upstairs getting 40% pay increases and telling downstairs we cant have 5.

Count N.
 

Tough choice - I'm open to correction but I think that under current UK law if a BALPA member working for another carrier refused to cross a Virgin picket line that action could (in fact probably would) be construed as secondary industrial action and would shortly be followed by the immortal words: "you're fired"..........

Hopefully we won't get into that situation.

wiggy
 

I don't think it would be classed as secondary action, just AWOL with the same end result.

BA have challenges manning their own operation in the summer. I doubt that they, or any other scheduled airline, would be able to 'assist' Virgin in any meaningful way. How much capacity is there in the long-haul charter market?

Looks like Virgin BALPA could be on to a winner.