BALPA: Talks will end today: BALPA - BALPA REMAIN IN VIRGIN TALKS

Anyone got a decent insight in to Beardy's mind on this?

With a high turnout and high vote for action, I guess that Beardy's call will be key.

Will he support the poor, grossly underpaid management, or will he support the poor, grossly underpaid pilots?

Any developments?

I understand a deal has been reached. A relief to all concerned I'm sure.

Do you have a source for that Ellis Hill?

He does, pilots to vote on final company offer in due course. Strike called off.

Count N, the VS IA APPEARED to be only about money because a strike can only be called with ONE cause under UK law. In truth it was as much about working conditions, trust and respect of the company management.

Whatever the case, hopefully the result will be fair for all concerned, and lessons will have been learned by VS management regarding the professionalism and value to the company of their exceptional crews who in good faith took a big financial hit to help the company in difficult times.

Trust and respect have to work two ways, and I hope this will shift the direction in a positive manner in the long term

Well.. all I can say is "Thank God".. I'm on Flight 4 on Monday JFK to LHR and would hate to have missed out.. I have to get my Class 1 renewal and refresh my jaded palate with some good English bitter.. don't mind being stuck in the UK so if you guys feel like it, go ahead with the strike on the 18th.. I'll rest easily in my favourite pub in the Cotswolds... :ok:

Well done!
 

Hats off to the Virgin Aircrew for standing your ground and saying enough is enough. I think quite rightly management have decided to "work" with a skilled labour group albeit with a slight threat!
I think the big difference here was your solidarity and firm resolve to get your pay issue fixed and it goes to show that the suits cannot always walk over their manpower assets. Respect!:D

Can we please show a little more respect?

Sir Richard Branson is a VERY successful businessman and should be respected as such.
I may not agree with 100% of his action and he probably wouldn't agree totally with anyone else for that matter but respect where respect is due.
"Beardy" is derogatory and only fuels resentment. there s enough bad feeling in VS at the moment without this.

"Beardy" is derogatory and only fuels resentment. there s enough bad feeling in VS at the moment without this.

Yes, one should not call the Wooley Pully 'Beardy' :E

Good on the VS guys n gals, and keep the threat of IA in your back pocket. :ok:

Respect should be a two way thing. Have you forgotten the letter to the cabin crew when they threatened to strike. More recently his letter to the pilots did not address the issues concerning the ballot ie not just pay but the style of (mis)management.

"show a little more respect"
 

Respect is earned though action. And just as easily lost.

I object to the misuse of my moniker.

How good - for the travelling public - that Beardy, down to his last billion, has fixed it for the poor, grossly underpaid management, and the poor, grossly underpaid pilots.
One for the customers?

It has never been about respect or indeed money primarily.
It has always been about FAIRNESS.
Disproportionate wage increases and crew discontent has evolved into the VS brand being an unhappy workplace, which in turn is reflected in the treatment of the passengers.
Bringing fairness back into the equation will result in happier crews working more productively and therefore being reflected in a more pleasant experience for the travelling passengers.
Another misconception on here is the belief that SRB plays any kind of active role in the day to day running of his airline.

Hmm don't you think that if he is down to his last billion due to losses in VA, that the customers have already been given their share?

It seems to me as a neutral observer that the root cause of this dispute has been the lack of integrity displayed by the VS management in their dealings with their Pilots.

Within the Pilot community at my employer (one of the UK charter 'majors') there is frequently wide disagreement on almost all aspects of relations with the Company management. I don't suppose that things were much different amongst the VS folk a few years ago. That they have achieved such solidarity on the token issue of pay reveals just how badly they have been let down by their 'management' and how little respect they have been given in recent years.

Well done on your joint stance chaps. Hopefully your managers will in future stick to what they have previously agreed and 'going forward' (:yuk:) will treat you with the respect you deserve..... you certainly have mine.

BBK, yes I agree respect should be a two way street and it is earned and not given away.
However SRB has earned this respect unlike our pilot management, who have, at best sat and watched this unfold doing nothing to stem the bad feeling within crews and at worst caused the bad feeling due to their own self importance and self promotion. We have a combination of teflon coated good for nothings and turncoats in middle management and downright crooks in top level management. The flight ops department is now run by HR who know nothing about our jobs at the pointy end of a jet, they assume we go to work fly the aircraft and go home, they have never done anything like this job so cannot be expected to know our day to day lives. No, they should not be running flight ops with this background, but they are and until we get rid of this revolving door management style, they are here to stay, as are the CV greasers who screw a few quid out of crews add it to their CV as a saving and clear off to another job selling mobile phones or the next crowd that will fall for the bull**** they spread.

The guys teed up to replace this lot are no better either.

re the letter to CC as I said I don't agree with everything SRB has done and I'm fairly sure he is only given one side of any argument.
The letter to pilots was a press release and not intended to do anything other than get the public on his side. It in no way addressed any of the problems being discussed. This is the way he work, get over it. It works for him and he has virtually no input in VS other than the odd front man in publicity stunts and launches.

cpdlcuser. Your comments about VS's flight planning are so dead on. HR are flexing their muscles and pretty soon the pilots will have an HR rep telling them what to do. My advice is to join HR..they are the future of the airline!

I don't think this is over yet. The press release from BALPA says that the company have issued a 'full and final' pay offer. As yet, no one knows what that offer contains, though the Times is suggesting that the headline numbers haven't changed, and there's nothing in that press release to suggest that BALPA is flushed with its own success in the negotiations. It looks, rather, as if the company has issued some kind of ultimatum which BALPA cannot fight, and they've thrown in the towel - hence the withdrawal of the threat of strike action.

I have a feeling the Virgin pilots may have been sold down the river.

I fear Digitalis is correct! Will be interesting to see how the new vote goes!!

Nothing like a bit more drama. Let's see what's been offered before the assumed, mad scramble for paddles Digitalis :=

I do not agree that BALPA have negotiated nothing and I don't believe that the managment would have been that daft as to draw a line that would be unacceptable to the pilots. A "final offer" can mean anything at this stage so it will be wise to see what it is.

The truth is that the senior management are so full of themselves that they have no idea which way is up. Their handling, and Ridgway's in particular, laid their mat out when he stated that that a below inflation rise is not a pay cut. That was crass.

Now that an agreement may be on the horizon what about the managment and their ineptitude in dealing with a 97% vote for IA? What about the woman who said that she would break the unions? What about HR being not capable of running water let alone running an airline. The product has dropped and it continues to do so. Aircraft are dirty and in need of refurbishment and management are in and out through an ever open door with the result that VS is changing for the worse. Ridgway is the supposed leader so why doesn't he lead? In many people's minds they believe he can NEVER recover the worth and pride that was once the Virgin brand. He has let it slip but still RB persists with him.

My suggestion to RB is to have a strong word with his mate and tell him how to really run an airline. I would also guess that VS is carrying more surplus staff than one full 744 - maybe two. This one factor alone can cause so many difficulties and disenchanment it is enough to drag the name and the airline down. It doesn't deserve that.

The pilots have demonstrated that there was no need for uncontrolled anger, though there must have been some, when their cause was just and fair. They played the game. The management chose to play another game, which only antagonised them and led to a massive unwinable stance by a management who seem not to understand that the WHOLE airline relies on pilots and its aeroplanes. The rest, including the CC, follow if the airline is being run properly. There is some serious doubt about that.

Sometime soon it will be known what the terms are that BALPA negotiated with the VS management. It is hoped that it is what it should be - a fulfilled promise. Not very difficult - so why was it?

I wonder if Sir Beardie has been influenced by O'Leary of late? We could see the flight crew doing other duties on board to pay for the "increase"! I'm sure HR would love to see the crew multi tasking.

Well the offer is out there now so the number crunching can begin. What I don't understand is why was the option of IA taken off the table. It would make sense, perhaps, if the offer had significantly been raised.

I'll let the number experts do the maths and see how it pans out. I hope it is worth it otherwise the company have wriggled free again.

Will be interesting to see the details. Have BALPA called off the strike in favour of a significant improvement in the offer or not? Can't wait to find out!

The VS management rhetoric in the press would suggest its a done deal! Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the offer needs to go to a ballot.

Looks like this dispute may have legs!

TBE.

Surely, if BALPA are recommending acceptance then the members of the 2 winged master race will agree to the terms. Otherwise they sack their union reps!

Bernouli. There is no lack of integritiy by VS management, their position has been constant. There is nothing to negotiate. They are doing what any good management should do and that is to keep costs down.

In an article in yesterday's Times (8/7/11), it looks like BALPA has rolled over again. The 'final' VS offer they are recommending is hardly any different to that when Virgin pilots first voted for industrial action. What a victory!!

The only tweaking being flexible rosters, profit share (how would you know if VS made a profit anyway?) and the 'promise' of some overtime. Hardly a collapse of the VS management position, but more of a face saving deal for BALPA and VS pilots, whose sphincters are now trembling at the prospect of industrial action.

Looks like the "Proud" VS pilots have no stomach for seeing through this spat, in order to gain a meaningful increase to their pay.

That's all fine until the VS pilots most likely reject the BALPA/VS management deal then they're all back to square one. Can't see the VS pilots voting for it.

strike
 

No guts no glory a bunch of sideway talk, strike if you must, you might get paid more than the bus driver in you'r town, otherwise please!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ugh:

And what might all that mean .... in plain English???????

Count whatever your name is, surely the role of a GOOD trade union during pay discussions is to squeeze as much as they can without damaging the hand that feeds.

So with management doing all they can to keep costs down (fair enough) and the union squeezing to get as much as possible (fair enough), isn't the likely outcome when a GOOD trade union is involved, is a little extra here and there?

Now I have no idea what the virgin pilots think about this offer but isn't just possible that BALPA, under the circumstances, have in fact done a bloody good job.

Best of luck to all the Virgin Atlantic crews.:ok:

Qantas crews have just voted on PIA in Australia, 89% of pilots voted, 94% YES to industrial action. [first time since 1966]

We only want <3% pay-rise but some security against off-shoring our jobs.

Worldwide it is time to stop this cancer and the demeaning of our profession.:D

Paddles issued. Sale done and dusted. Balpa have wasted 8 months of negotiation and a 97% vote for industrial action. The deal is the same as the one 'offered' on day 1, yet the threat of strikes has been withdrawn. I would guess Balpa's future in Virgin is on a knife edge now.

Balpa are presenting this as some kind of success on their website. I'd love to know what it would take for them to declare a failure!

So what you are saying is "Stop fighting for better T&Cs in this business because there are lots of people worse off than you." ? ?

Is that how we maintain "integrity"?

Because that's what unions do...? :ugh:

Because BALPA and the VACC sold us out and are now trying to pretend they have some "greater" knowledge. Apparently after 8 months of negotiation in the final few days the Company said that they are in such dire financial straits that if the pay deal went ahead they would have to close routes and make redundancies.

As a Union member for 20 years I have never felt so betrayed. They Marched us up to the top of the hill and then the Grand Old Duke of York went to the pub with his final salary pension scheme, company car and £35K a month from pilots in Virgin and did a 180 degree turn.

Still it's election time next year for the General Secretary and some of us remember Chris Darke's demise. Perhaps he should show some humility and admit he lead us into a fight he was not ultimately going to support.

The VACC asked for support for strike action. Virgin Pilots gave it and told their family's, their banks and their colleagues that the action was just. 8 Months later BALPA ask us now to accept the same deal that was offered back then.

If I had a word of caution beware of whether BALPA act in your interest or just want media grabbing headlines " BALPA secures deal in Virgin Atlantic" Funny how they dropped the handshake symbol of their website so quickly after it was questioned.

BALPA and the VACC have sold out. We have damaged the VAA Brand and business and in return they have accepted a pay deal that was given to all non unionised employees!

F

IMHO
 

IMHO I feel VA pilots need to stop whinging, and start realising they are already onto a good deal.

750 hours a year.....if only!

Yes we all know your management is distinctly lacking in ability but you work for a small operation linked to a big brand. Nothing more.

Regardless of the irregular and highly inaccurate accounting processesof VA I would be surprised if the airline has made any money during the recession.

On top of this even with the strong link to the Virgin brand SA have been unable to find a buyer for the 49% stake they hold for a number of years....why.......because no major airline is willing to take on a loss making company which is looking increasingly isolated.

As a pilot for a slightly larger company not only have I taken a pay cut over the last three years but also taken unpaid leave and worked unpaid. O, did I forget to mention the 900 hours as well.

To summaries, boys, you’re on a good deal and although your managers are lacking chill out.

Just fly your 330s and enjoy the 750 hours while it lasts.

:E