EasyJet Holding Pool
 

Easy called me and said the can offer me a course in March for a Com position in Spain, approx. 2 weeks ago. I confirmed, and now I got this:

At the moment the company has placed a hold on all external recruitment and placement of Direct Entry Captains. I cannot confirm when we will be able to offer you a start date.

What is going on??:confused::confused:

Hello,

I also was wondering what is going on there. Found out, that I am somewhere in the 80s in the holding pool.Is there any realistic chance that I can go with Easyjet next year in 2008 or maybe I have to wait untill 2009?

Maybe an insider could provide us with some information about it?

Greetings

NIK

As far as I have been told, recruitment for 2008 is running far slower
than in the previous (4) years, because the company accepted too many
new entrants in 2007 (just not to let them go elsewhere) and is reducing this
"backlog" now.

Madrid is a different thing, as it is on a different (spanish) contract and
the need to fill the cockpits is immediate.

HOWEVER: With the recent takeover of GB there are some 200+ pilots
coming into the company and I understand that they like to sort out
the true needs first....

Summary:

Too many entrants in 2007 + GB Pilots on board = Reduced hiring 2008.

I would not be surprised if the total recruitment for 2008 is something
like 100 pilots, not too much compared to 300+ for the last 4 years....:hmm:

A very senior guy from the training department told me lately that only 30 new pilots are needed for 2008, time will tell. Apparently despite buying GB EZY training department still says that they need 450 new pilots in 2009/

Would this not be related to the rate of deliveries for A319s in 2008/9, as well as the GB takeover and the 'over-recruitment' in 2007? I think the next A319 isn't due until the spring, and there may be more B737s leaving the fleet next year too (anyone know?), hence only a small net gain of equipment in the short term.

Well, seems the command upgrade blackmail scheme is working then :yuk:

It goes something like this:

We can't find anyone who wants to take his command in Spain, because the T&C's are below standard (only 3 days sick pay per year amongst others).

So here is what we'll do. Every command upgrade will have to sign for a permanent Spanish contract or will not get his command. As there are only 30ish command upgrades in the copmpany in 2008 you take it or leave it and wait another 1-2 years.

Looks like people are going for it if external DEC recruitment has been put on hold.

Off course most colleagues in the UK don't give a sh*t because it doesn't concern them, so BALPA can't do much about it... :ugh:

Dutchjock - I am not the slightest embarrassed to say when something is wrong at easyJet, but equally I am happy to say when something is right. Your tone suggests that easyJet has somehow behaved in an underhand way by offering commands at Madrid which you either take or leave. It strikes me that this is entirely reasonable and the choice is down to the SFO concerned who makes a decision in the light of his/her personal circumstances. If you turn it down then the offer goes to the next person on the list. I simply cannot see what is wrong with that.

We have become used to a period of unparalleled promotion opportunities at easyJet, whereby anyone with the minimum hours and appropriate sim grades gets a command course. Wonderful as that is, the situation should not be taken as the norm. Like every other company there will inevitably be times when such opportunities are not there. There are now only a certain number of commands available and it is reasonable for easyJet to promote people into slots at the locations where the vacancies exist. You are quite within your rights to turn down that opportunity and easyJet are then quite within their rights to approach the next person on the list. This process is completely transparent and everyone knows the deal. That is not blackmail by any stretch of the imagination.

NSF, that is not what is happening, and it's important that possible new entrants see what is happening.

The "list" was frozen a couple of months ago. No new offers are being made. However, any SFO in any position on the list can get on a command course on reduced (Spanish) terms by putting their names forward for "accelerated command".

Thus you could be at the top of the list (which equates at the moment to having been eligible for nearly a year) and never get the command if enough people jump the queue under the "accelerated" system.

Spanish base has enough volunteers, too many actually. Sounds like 30+ upgrades at the mo is the best guess. No courses after March I think, all DEP Capt recruitment stopped (too late by the looks of things?)
:}

Anybody have any information on hold pool DEP First Officer recruitment ? I am in the hold pool at the moment...
Latest I have is that they have recently started to allocate courses for those in the pool.

There is not much info on the web page about the spanish contract, do anybody have details about the spanish contract? and how easy is it to go to the uk contract?
somebody told me they will make nearyl in every country an own corperation, because they got under pressure of the fiscal authorithies by letting their pilots pay their taxes on the isle of man. is in the near future the uk contract available, if in every country is a different contract?
3 days sick pay, I thought that is not possible in any european country?! Especially if I would decide to pay my taxes and social security in my home country, because if I would comute, I would have my "center of living" there. Or, is this contract based on a company abroad? Easy told me I was one of the first going in the holding pool (beginning of march I had my screening). As from the outside it is hard to say if they have given already somebody a starting date of a course, therefore I can just trust that I am in any row. As far I experienced EasyJet, they where alway straight forward, therefore I was quite astonished about the moves they made recently. But everything sounds logicical what I read till now.

Norman,

Your answer highlights the main problem: People are not aware of what's going on. Have you read the memo about accellerated command? (which has now strangely disappeared from the admin section)

If it were as you say just offering command on a first come first serve basis then fine, nothing wrong. The problem is, they couldn't fill the Madrid base because of the lower T&C's. So their answer was to offer accelerated command to whoever would accept this. the memo then said: IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THIS WE WILL HAVE TO HIRE DEC's. THAT is blackmail in my opinion.

Dutchjock,

Let me give you another perspective.

When we tried getting a salary increase back when there were no Dutchjocks in the company, they told us, either accept what is on offer, or we will hire dutch pilots....

Was that blackmail?

Why did you join when you knew we were trying for something better?

I think that you have benefited from that policy, what do you think? You did not seem to care then about my T&Cs did you?

In any case Madrid is full of Dutchjocks, so go complain to them. If you do not like it go home to Holland and stay on the doll or work for Martinair at half the salary. Oh they are getting rid of their A320s

In the real world it is about supply and demand. There are Captains out there who want to join.

The have passed the interview, and are highly qualified.

You are still a first officer, and easyjet can and will do as they like. If you do not like it go somewhere else. At present you have nothing to offer, the yhave everything to offer you.

Have patience and respect for your employer....

When you pass your command do as you please, but until then take what Easy have to offer you, or relax and enjoy your life...

Enough Said.

Are you serious????

If you can show any proof that is true than yes it's blackmail.

I love it how there is always someonewho says íf "you don't like it go back to where you came from'. That's always a great argument:rolleyes:

You don't know when I joined so you can't say if "we" were trying for something better. If you read my post a bit more carefull than you might see that the company is imposing WORSE t&c's. How in the world can you defend that?

Don't you see this local contract business is eventually going to erode you're TRE conditions as well?

And finally please don't patronise me with talk of respect.

I have a lot of respect for ezy and even more respect for my colleagues and BALPA, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with all of the company's plans. They seem to have taken a different attitude lately.

Well said "old chap" :ugh:

unbelievable.......

Oh and dear Mr TRE,

These first Dutchjocks you refer to were told they would be based in Amsterdam as that base was going to open shortly. We all know that didn't happen. So as a matter of fact these Dutchjocks were planning on doing exactly as you so elegantly suggested: "If you do not like it go home to Holland'

Mr TRE, do you tell all your trainees from Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, America (and whatever nationality I didn't mention) To p*ss off home if they try to retain/improve their conditions? Nice attitude for a trainer in a European company...

The join date on the left of this message is the date I joined pprune, not my Easyjet join date...just to be shure...:hmm:

Anyway rant over, back to topic

Dutchjock,

No I do not, as they are polite, respectfull and curteous......

When I say go home, I do not mean to your country, I mean to your own Dutch companies.

If they were so great, and jobs were in abundance you would not be here.

The only country in Europe where the real freedom of movement, employment and promotion on merit exists is the UK.

Do not talk to me about fairness, and blackmail, I would much rather you say thank you for what the British have given you and go on your way.


What I am trying to get through your head, is the fact that you are very insignificant in easyjet's eyes.

You are a captain wanabee. You have shown no respect to your elders, and now you are getting no respect or sympathy from them....

You have shown no self respect, so why should management give you something you do not deserve?

Good luck to you, but I can see it will only end in tears... unless you change your attitude.

Try thinking about what you can give, rather than what you should be getting.....

By nice to those who have given you a chance, and if you do not like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Plenty more to come to fill in your spot.....

3 monkeys
 

320STRE

A bit harsh your tone if I might say so :sad:

Dutchjock has a valid point whether you like it or not.

Do you think managements divide and conquer strategy will improve your own UK T&C's in the long run?

Local contracts:http://www.ilcircolo.net/lia/3monkeys.jpg

TRE, you dinosaur...

If you believe that you really should get out more

What on earth are you talking about? I show no respect to my elders? Who might that be? Captain wannabee? Why do you assume that?

When do you become significant then, if you are a TRE? :D

I think the one who should change his attitude is you, you phantom of a long gone era.

I am not complaining about command or any single issue. This is about divide and conquer tactics on European contracts wich sooner or later will affect us all.

I know that you are an exception in an otherwise great company, but your believes and the tone of your messages are simply shocking.

You've got to earn respect. You don't get it by stating your position in your username.

You're not even answering any single one of the points I've made, but I suppose I'm not worthy enough of an answer.


I hope with all my heart that you retire soon.

Dutchjock,

The contract has been ammended to have a 6 month sick pay condition added.

Why do al the pilots enjoy the MAD base?

Why are they all very happy?

Their overall package is equivalent to the uk, albeit minus the 7.5% pension contribution.

But the cost of living is much lower out there.

Not my words, words of MAD crews!!!!!!!!!!!!

The 7% pension is supposedly built into the salary instead.

320seriesTRE is sitting high up in his ivory tower, looking down on the proles. He got what he wanted (cushy training job, status, respect, power, 4 stripes), and does no longer sees the need to work together in order to improve everybody else's life.

"F*ck off to where you came from," "sign this (local) contract or leave" and "love it or leave it" are usually the exclusive credos of management, or management wannabees...

CRM (have a close look at the last 2 items of 2nd page of the T4 form!) at it's finest! Leading by example, blablabla. Standards are obviously slipping, even for TRE's. :hmm:

Here's a scenario:

Easyjet decides to open a base in say Budapest. With the local contracts now a fact, the company will pay, and I qoute "market rates and not a penny more.

Let's say 80000 euros would be a rather good pay for a local capt. Now the company introduces 3 point flights. (as heard from the mouth of the people director)

For example BUD-LGW-AMS-LGW-BUD

All of a sudden they need less crews in LGW and more in BUD. Now the time for new pay talks arrives.

What do you think the company is going to say?

"Dear UK pilots. Your Hungarian colleagues are about 15000 pounds p/year cheaper. You can either accept a pay freeze or we will expand the 3 point flights, accept the odd night stop and reduce the UK bases.

Do you think the hunagrian colleagues will go on strike for your pay? off course not.

Your uk based ivory tower is going to come crashing down before you know it.

Divide and conquer.

Let's try and work together to avoid this and keep everyone on 1 overall package, tweaked here and there for local taxes/regulations.

320seriesTRE... well, no comment :rolleyes:

The orange management is trying to use the "divide and conquer" method.
And they are successful!
Next base on the list: MXP. Wish you guys good luck :ok:

To the other bases: make no mistake here, benefits will erode at your base too, if not yet then in the long term.
As for the guys in MAD being happy... well, the ones staying (ex Air Madrid et al) probably are, but what about all the ones that left, were they happy?


live 2 fly 2 live

On the subject of MAD contracts, I believe the final draft is now complete having been fought over for the past year. While it is probably not perfect I believe it is a significant improvement on the initial offering and that is due in no uncertain terms to the efforts of our Balpa team. Divide and conquer is definately on the management agenda here and I think we need to listen carefully and follow developments on this issue over the coming months. We can not afford to adopt the 'not in my back yard' stance on European issues or we shall ultimately all lose out.
I don't think we shall see many or maybe any DEC's over the next 12 months. The MAD accelerated command issue seems a little oversold here. The NTC has been removed because the 'offer' is closed and oversubscribed. I believe that (reluctantly) the company has been bound by the existing BALPA agreements on base transfers and crews can apply to transfer out in the normal manner. With that in mind there seems little difference between taking a command in MAD and any other base.

Dutchjock - although I do not agree with your analysis about the Madrid contract, I do share your concerns about the potential for massive wage reductions by the mechanism you specified. Like many things in life, the truth does not lie at the extremes of the argument. I personally see some merit in local contracts but with certain protections built in. Once again the need for a unified BALPA-based workforce is becoming apparent and I have zero sympathy with any complaints about easyJet from any pilot who is not a member. The recent difficulties we have had with our management can be traced directly back to a dilution of membership rates and the consequent boldness of our managers to make decisions clearly not in our best interests.
The issue of European contracts is about to become the big issue at easyJet and we should be prepared for a serious battle. That battle is winnable, but will require greater resolve from the pilot workforce than currently is being shown. In a nutshell, there is an increasing minority of pilots at easyJet who are 'freeloaders' - they want all the benefits won by BALPA but will give none of the commitment. That is their choice, but ultimately we will all lose out if we do not stand together.

320TRE, you say that your location is 'Earth'.

You sure about that?

prob not even a TRE!

How confused some of you are!

The MAD contract is nothing like the UK one. The increase in gross salary it is not equivalent, at all, to the UK contract. The gross salary on the Spanish contract is higher than in the UK one. However, payments to National Insurance in Spain are much higher than in the UK. Furthermore, the 5% pay increase in UK has not happen in Spain (= effective pay cut). In Spain you do not get the extra 2% of the pension. According to EZY Right now there are talks in Spain of how to scrap the pension all together. In addition, if you are not Spanish, how will you benefit?:confused:

Night stop allowance for Spanish crews is only 18 pounds! Why do you think it is cheaper for the company not to base pilots in CDG or LYS. At the beginning it will be LGW crew down in France. Once the Spanish bases are fully manned it will be us doing the night stops.
Sector Pay. It is equal for Capt., F/O and Cabin Crew. Under the Spanish Contract any flight to Spanish soil is considered domestic; hence, you get a daily fix domestic rate = 22 pounds. International flights will get the international rate of 40 pounds/day. If the flight duty is divided between Intl. and Domestic you get whichever is the longest flight. Some examples follow:

- 2 domestic sectors: MAD-ACE-MAD = 22 pounds (>5hours flight time)

- 4 domestic sectors: MAD-OVD-MAD-LCG-MAD = 22 pounds
- 6 " " MAD-IBZ-PMI-IBZ-MAD-AGP-MAD = 22 pounds
- 2 domestic + 2 intl: MAD-FUE-MAD-TLS-MAD = 22 pounds (>7 hours flight time) Longest sector is the domestic; thus, domestic pay.
- 4 Intl. sectors: MAD-LIS-MAD-LGW-MAD = 40 pounds.

Sick pay cover is ONLY for 3 days. Do not get confused with six months. The six month sick pay cover is only for pilots transferring to the Spanish Contract before Feb' 08. Anyone, new or from any other EZY base, will not get it.

I have read some naive guy (he knows who he is) in the forum saying that life in MAD is cheaper. Either you live in the city of London or you just not have a clue how expensive it is to live in MAD. MAD is nothing like Benidorm or whatever cheap place you might have been on holydays in Spain. Madrid is the 7th most expensive capital in the world. Therefore, unless you are Paris or London based, you are talking from your rear.

DIVIDE AND CONQUER. How many times do we have to see this happen before the saying sinks in? If the UK goes on strike and EZY asks someone on a Spanish Contract to operate flights from LGW, he/she cannot

Spain has not received the UK pay award because the revue date in Spain is different from the UK and is only just coming up for negotiation. Therefore it's a little early to be talking paycut. You have also failed to mention your 10% productivity bonus. That will be levied on a higher basic than a UK contract. Overall though, I agree the UK contract is a better one.

NSF, since you appear to be an expert on easyJet, perhaps you could explain why
"The recent difficulties we have had with our management can be traced directly back to a dilution of membership rates"
It is quite clear that balpa is not the answer to every pilots prayers as some would appear to believe and your statement
"The issue of European contracts is about to become the big issue at easyJet and we should be prepared for a serious battle"
is just another example of balpa offering their membership too little too late. It has been obvious for years that it was easyJets intention to have European bases with pilots on local contracts.
Perhaps those who have not yet joined consider that spending in some cases over £700 a year for doubtfully quantifiable benifits have a point

Santa's Little Helper

NSF knows better than most what he is talking about when it comes to easyJet and Balpa.

He is quite correct that membership levels are a problem. Look at the results other airlines get with high levels of membership. Despite this Balpa have achieved a great deal in the time I have been with the company and deserve due credit for that.

Balpa membership costs are not as high as you suggest. You can claim tax relief on the 1st 2/3 of your annual membership. So on £700 the saving is £186.66 as at that level of cost the member would be a 40% tax payer. Not so sure of the costs if you pay your tax to other than the UK taxman. Oh and they only charge you half your subs in year 1 and 3/4 in year 2. In 2004 they negotiated a tax break of £950 a year which we all get, member or not. So I reckon thats a quantifiable benefit to me each year of about £450 thanks to Balpa as my subs before the adjustments I just mentioned are over £700. Very helpfull around Christmas don't you think Santa's Little Helper? So next time you slate the cost of membership get your facts right.

If you are one of the freeloaders then get your act together and get on board the ship. If people do not stand together then there is only one winner and its not the crews. Balpa is far from perfect but its the only show in town so stop pulling it down and face up to the real threat.

If you have a workable alternate to Balpa then by all means enlighten us.

Thought not.

Always easy to make excuses when you freeload.

Orange Tree you seem to be a bit lost. What Yabaduu has pointed out is all true. With regards to the negotiation date regarding MAD, the company decided to put the date they felt like, even though BALPA was completely against it. Why should there be a different pay review date when the MAD pilots (about 85-90% of them) come from the UK? By doing so the company has given those pilots an effective pay cut.:confused:
Since you mention the productivity bonus lets talk about it. Do you even know what the bonus is going to be based on next year, or the year after? No. You just have not got a clue. Not even the company knows what they are going to base the bonus on. In addition, this year bonus is hardly going to mean anything since is pro-rata. So 10% of your salary for four months (which is when we were force to sign to the Spanish Contract) at 43% tax, you tell me how much would that be. And then you compare to your pay rise, sector pay, pension...:mad:
But since you brought those things up lets not forget the loyalty bonus is now fixed on the UK contract, and it adds up on to the pension. Whereas on the Spanish contract it is still dependant on the company earning profits. Not to say that the pension part we will never get it since we have no pension.:ugh:

Ugly duck

You seem to know a bit on spanish tax. Are you MAD based? Copilot or Capt? Could you give us your take home per month on average? That 43% is only on some of your salary isn't it? I imagine payable tax increases gradually like it does in other countries. I am about to join easy and would love to live in spain. Thanks for any input.

Back to the theme
 

Back to the original theme of this thread....

I am told I am less than #10 in the DEP FO pool and have heard nothing since early Oct. I can only guess that people are busy working out the GB integration ahead of next summer, and thence working out how much space is left to get new guys in.

That said, if they dont start giving out start dates for Mar/Apr/May soon, I dont see how they will have trained pilots ready for the summer.

Please post any new info here as you hear it!

I entered the holdpool in October and was told I'm around 100 in the hold pool, with dates no earlier than next October.

Santas Little Helper - I am one of those who left BALPA in the past but rejoined when a big fight was coming at easyJet - so I have held to both sides of the argument. What finally persuaded me to back BALPA was that I saw the power of force of numbers. There are those, and you may be one of them, who have such a visceral hatred of BALPA that any amount of rational discussion is wasted. For the more discerning, it seems self-evident that if you have all pilots acting as one then you will have a voice in the face of unreasonable management.

Have a look at those companies who have big BALPA voices - Monarch, BA, Virgin and until recently easyJet. Every one of them has done well from it. Look at the other end of the scale - Jet 2 or Ryanair. They are continually stuffed by their bosses. The working conditions at the BALPA-represented companies are manifestly better than those without union representation. Our percentage membership has gone down recently and consequently our excellent CC had their bluff called and had to give in over the last pay deal.
Let me give you a great example of how BALPA can work and your £700 can pale into insignificance. Last year we were desparately short of Training Captains and about 40 new ones were promoted. When the contracts came through the 12.5% pay rise was a 'temporary' promotion for a year. BALPA went in and argued the toss, won the argument and all trainers are now on permanent contracts. That has proven to be worth about £9k a year for each captain involved - makes your £700 seem quite small.

For all the freeloaders who want to let everyone else fight for the good deals, pay nothing and then say thanks a lot - just do not come back and whine when it all goes wrong later. You have lost the right to speak or complain. Everything that we have now at easyJet has been won by BALPA - let us not be so foolish as to throw it away for a few quid a month extra in our banks.

Very well said NSF. !!!!

NSF: your reply while very interesting does not really answer the questions I asked about the comments you made earlier relating to the next battle etc.
It is quite obvious even to me that pilots working for a big airline like easyJet need to be represented collectively by a union but what I object to is the way that quite a few balpa members seem too ready to force their views on others, to hijack any arguement (this thread is about the holding pool) turning it into a balpa recruiting campaign and to make assumptions about people which sometimes border on the insulting. And if one dares to criticise something a balpa rep has done or said, it is invariably met with the response "well if you think you can do better why arent you a rep"
Actually I am in balpa but like a lot of members I do not have a better answer and I do not regard it as good value for money. I also respect the right of others who choose not to belong because over the last thirty odd years I have seen that even if you are a member, when it comes to standing together on an important issue the membership is often diluted by apathy or fear.

NSF I can't see how Santas Little Helpe'rs £700 pales into insignificance when only 40 Trainers are benefiting from BALPA's assistance in achieving permanent training contracts. Now, a year later, they are sittting in the RHS doing nothing for their money ie "consolidation" while these poor souls in the holding pool above are desperately waiting to absorb their knowledge and expertise. Never in the history of easyJet have so few benefited so handsomely from the subscriptions of so many :hmm: