Nightstop - your unfortunate reply would indicate you believe Trainers' salaries are being paid for by other pilot groups and that the only beneficiaries of BALPA's efforts are Trainers. I would have hoped you had sufficient knowledge to realise how totally incorrect such an assertion is - apparently not. Indeed, you have failed to understand the argument. For the first time in our history that I am aware of, the possiblity of 'temporary appointments' appeared. It was brought in without consultation and imposed by our since-departed Chief Training Captain in order to enhance his own bonus at the expense of his own Training Captains. Had this gone unchallenged, it would inevitably have led to the 'temporary commands' for the summer which other airlines employ. Quite rightly, BALPA saw the dangers and acted to defeat this totally unacceptable turn of events. A further advantage of this is to preserve a career structure which enables all pilots to reach the highest ranks and maintain that position on reaching it. That is not just an advantage for Trainers - it is vital for all staff as today's CTC cadets are tomorrow's Training Captains.

Regarding your equally ill-informed assertion that Trainers 'are sittting in the RHS doing nothing for their money', you may be interested to know that in the next 31 days I am rostered to fly 52 sectors of which 46 are training duties. Undoubtedly there was a 3-month period when consolidation went on (quite useful if you chose to take advantage of it), but that is not the case at the moment. If the management had had their way the new Trainers would have been demoted in October - and by the same token numerous new captains would have been demoted too. Dare I say it - BALPA actually acted in everyone's interests and not just those of a few. Never in the history of easyJet has so much rubbish been spouted to so many by so few...

Santa's Little Helper - The issue of BALPA is directly relevant to the current argument. Why are these 'poor souls' in the holding pool instead of being instantly whisked into 900 hours a year of seriously hard work as was the case in years gone by? The reason is that people are not leaving because we have become an employer of choice. Why is that? The reason is that when Ray Webster was still CEO, he tried to award himself and a few of his mates massive bonuses and at the same time award an effective pay cut to both pilots and cabin crew. Union membership soared and in the end a great victory was won when the new CEO, Andy Harrison, wisely saw the absolute certainty of a strike. Pilots therefore were awarded 10% over 2 years which was among the best deals on offer at the time in the industry. In short, for the first time in easyJet's history a critical mass of pilots gathered together to fight for their share of easyJet's success. More recently, however, we have taken on over 400 pilots last year - a significant percentage of whom have not seen the willingness of our managers to look them straight in the eye and tell them they are the low cost side of low cost! Consequently membership has waned, and slowly but surely we are moving back to our previous position of being taken advantage of by unscrupulous individuals. Substantial battles loom in the form of European contracts and the only credible answer is a united pilot workforce working together to negotiate the best deal rather than see a totally disadvantageous settlement imposed upon us. There is none so blind as thems that will not see - but if we have any eyesight still functioning we should have a look at what a low cost airline like Ryanair without BALPA representation is currently offering its Captains. Without BALPA that film will be coming to a cinema near you shortly..........

To which I have nothing to add. Amen.

BRAVO
 

Norman Stanley,

Great to see you back in print on PPRUNE.

Once again you've hit the nail fairly and squarely on the head!:D

I hope norman stanley fletcher, having been wound up enough to produce such a lenghty reply at 0300 this am is not flying today, otherwise Mr McKay will be very concerned.

@ NSF

Very well expressed view of BALPA necessity for Pilots life!
I admire your "taking time to" write down those arguments. I admit, english not my mothertongue, my verbal discussion on the flight line is exactly the same direction.
I still believe after long discussions with freeloaders, that most of them just do not want to spend the money on BALPA fees.
Latest as a Captain the financial situation should allow these expenses!

My two "Euro" cents!

Barbie Jet
 

Anyone in the pool off an EMB145 and if so have you been offered TRSS or Direct Entry to the land of Orange ?:}

I'd stick with yer Honda Jense, new Team Manager and all it seems a bit early to be giving up on the 2008 season.

Honda
 

The Honda is fine, couldn't ask for a better car. Great team....BUT the money, grass is greener, Monaco is the new Benidorm. Couldn't help but notice the large numbers of Buses that crowd the pit lane.

Any swimmers awrf the Brazilian at Easy care to comment ?

Jenson Button,
As far as I know the embraer would have to be on the TRSS scheme, even the CRJ is the same. As a general rule, you have to fly jets weighing more than 45 tonnes to be concidered as a DEP. This summer they concidered flying the BAE146 as DEP, but I think this procedure has stopped again after a few "incidents" on the line in EZY. I could be wrong though.

I got in as a DEP of the 145. Having said that, that was last year and I do believe things have, yet again, changed.

that's another funny one isn't it ? putting regional jet guys into a TRSS scheme instead of a DEC scheme should stop those "few incidents" ? :}
No problem with 200 hours cadets but "some incidents" with experienced jet guys....:bored::confused::bored::confused:

May I conclude that those "few incidents" have something to do with monney ?! you get paid lower and you have to pay your own type rating that is much better for easyjet :D:O

Guillaume (CRJ OPL :cool:)

I though about applying the other day with 1,000 hours only to be told I'd be put on SSTR. That's ridiculous, a typical LCC.

Right now, all applicants TRSS except current B737 or A319 pilots, together with pilots of "heavier (jet) types".

Simple.

Nuageblanc,

Some who came from Bae146 and Embraer were taken on as direct entry captains. Some of those did some stupid things on line and at least one lost his job because of this. After those incidents EZY went back to the old scheme, above 45 tonnes aircrafts to be concidered for DEP, so I was told at least.
When I joined EZY I had +4500 hours and still I was put on TRSS, I agree with you it's a silly concept and I don't like it.
However it does help putting these guys into the right seat with an experienced EZY captain to start with, rather than putting them straight into the left seat of an Airbus. A much better combination than putting the Embraer guy in the left seat with a new cadet in the right seat. That's what EZY did and the outcome wasn't good and that's why to my knowledge this has been stopped/ doesn't happen anymore.
I hope this helps your lack of understanding.
TFCM

Nuageblanc,
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ak...smiley-086.gif

TFC, Ok but what if an FO like myself currently flying CRJ happens to apply to EZ ? will I have to go to a TRSS or a DEP scheme ? If it's TRSS then they can keep there vacancy and give them to a CTC cadet :mad:

Nuageblanc,
Don't waste your time, we're not that desperate....!

....but isn't jet time the be all and end all of everything in commercial aviation??? :rolleyes:

Nuageblanc,

An answer to your question;

Does your CRJ have MTOM above 45 tonnes?


No = TRSS, yes = DEP

So you better give the job to the CTC cadet then :ok:

nuageblanc pleaaaaase don't apply :eek:

and check Right Way Up lovely smily :D



live 2 fly 2 live

and what does your looovely balpa think about that ? TRSS is downgrading terms and conditions. Your low cost airline starts with that and will eventually finish with your working conds and salary , be sure of that :} :E

Keep on recruiting cadets while treating experienced jet/TP pilots like **** ! it seems that you are already on the same heading as Ryanair :D

Guillaume

nuage
 

They say the creator equipped us with 2 ears and only one mouth so we would listen twice as much as we blabbered. I know (s)he also gave you 10 fingers but I suppose this was decided before keyboards were invented. Think about it.

Nuageblanc I think you should apply mate. We'd all be fascinated how you get on.:E

And once you're in you can show us ex-ctc cadets' how to fly.

ahah ! yip but I will have to teach you on a different aircraft than A319, otherwise it's too easy :oh:

TRSS today, tomorrow is the local contract, and after tomorrow it will be easyjet merging in Ryanair to become the biggest europeen/worldwild low cost :yuk:

I am not in rush to apply, let me wait and see :E:E:E

Guillaume

Ok well I'm rated on the 737 aswell thanks to easyJet so we can go head to head on that.;)

There are interesting times ahead - none of us deny that, but there are far worse places to work. We are nothing like Ryanair that is for sure!

depth of the hold pool?
 

Any ideas on the current depth of the holding pools?
DEP and TRSS?
From website:
"Our pilot recruitment needs for 2007 and early 2008 have now been met. We are still running regular pilot assessments to enter our holding pool. We anticipate that spaces on training courses will be available from late 2008 and into 2009."
So those with late Oct or early Nov 2007 pool entry dates may get a course in a year's time?

Angelorange,
Not much recruitment upto October 2008, however the big orange sausage machine gets back upto speed after that. However keep your your ear to the ground as that could all change.

Angelorange,
Heard from a recruiter lately that there are +130 swimming in the pool at the moment. With the number needed for 2008 it sounds about right with 1 year of waiting. Things could change for good or worse :confused:

Bit of a schizo our Snow White . . . last week he was on here on the EJ Paris Base thread be-rating BALPA for ruining zees fantastic company Eeesee Zhjet and today he is moaning that they don't rush in and demand that they sweep him, the Jet God, in on better terms and conditions than theez leetel poonks on zee TEE ER es es Theeng. What was that word I was looking for, Oh yes Conard, that was it.

Connard actually...

Just being pedantic, ok I leave...

I have managed to get Nuageblanc on to my ignore list and it works a treat!

I can see other guys responding to him but I cant see his worthless and uninformed ramblings, its great!:D

ignore
 

heheheheh but now you're curious... just a little bit? c'mon admit it! ;)

Nuageblanc,
Don't you dare say that about our colleague ezydriver! :}

Just to go back to the original topic of the thread...

Heard from a very reliable source four days ago that the number for 2008 has been set at 120. No idea about the breakdown i.e. TRSS vs DE vs Cadets.

And now to spin the thread back towards BALPA... Looking around the crew room, there's no doubt a lot of pilots qualified in the "pay for everything yourself" era of aviation. Not talking about TR here, but just Ab Initio or Modular costs (as opposed to the cadet/ex-RAF schemes of old). Yet a couple of weeks ago in a BALPA Newsletter, only ONE of the 12 or so candidates to the executive council talked about the financial worries of recent entrants who had to pay a fortune for their training. How do we afford mortgages AND training loans? How can we contribute enough to the underfunded pensions schemes to makes sure we have a half-decent retirement?

Want to stop the dilution of BALPA membership at EZY? How about spending a little less time wondering how big a yacht you can afford and a little more time addressing the concerns of a significant portion of new entrants? Ahhh, now I feel better ;)

P

On the first point Permafrost, that is encouraging as only a month or so ago the figure was no more than 30.
With regard to the second point I think it is swings & roundabouts. Most pilots have been through the tough times. When I did it there were no schemes in place so I had to arrange everything myself at extortionate rates. When I finished it took me two years to get a job & in the meantime I was made redundant twice. At all times I was a Balpa member because I believed that a strong membership would improve my career prospects in the long term. It would not surprise me if those with mortgages now, could be the paupers in a few years time especially if the expected recession occurs. It might in fact be a good situation next year to have few ties. As for myself, I'm just going to bury my head in the sand & hope. :\

Don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusion there are plenty of "non-young" pilots out there who had to face the same hardships. I'm just often left with the impression that the people at the top of Balpa have either not been in that situation or have forgotten. I'm not at all convinced BALPA is spending enough (any?) energy on things like lobbying the Inland Revenue so we can pay at least a portion of our loans back pre-tax. Maybe I'm wrong, but having only one of 12 NEC candidates address the issue is not reassuring.

P

Permafrost,
I agree, anything that can be done to ease the pain for new guys & gals would get my backing.

BTW I like the "non-young" terminology!

Permafrost has a valid point but it is also worth noting the british airline pilots association seems to have done little to prevent an invasion of foreign pilots to our shores when there are still many home grown guys and girls out there with licences who cannot get a look in.
It does seem from norman stanleys posts that balpas "next battle" in easyjet to fight for common terms might be taking place because their pilots now feel threatened by the possibility of overseas contracts undermining their UK terms & conditions.
Its a bit late, they should have already been encouraging the company to form mini airlines within each country (like easy swiss) under the easyjet group. It is not a new concept, Air Europe tried it years ago but were too far ahead of their time. I reckon it would work now to the benefit of all concerned.

Would it be too simplistic an analysis to assume this is as a result of 12 extra aircraft delivered in 2008 ? (Source - EZY 2007 Results Webcast).

Is there any news yet on how EZY will fly the GB sumer 2008 programme i.e as a stand alone fleet within ezy or will operations start to mix before then ?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Not necessarily, as there is the issue that Easyjet have been somewhat overcrewed. The original plan was for circa 30 recruits October 07-08 and that was based on 12 aircraft. Now there is a figure of 120.