Budget carrier having a laugh
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Budget carrier having a laugh
The easyjet type-rating sponsorship scheme is IMHO only a punchline short of being a joke. For a bargain 23k you can put yourself through the hell and high water we call the airline industry to end up paying an over-inflated price for a type-rating only to end up being bonded to easyjet for 5 years with your own money!
One again another classic example of airlines taking the mickey out of prospective employees. After all the training and hard work invested in your licence you now (apparently) have to pay for the job as well.
Easy claim its people are its number one asset. I bet they are the pounds their chucking in for their training. No wonder they can afford to fly people around the continent for 20 quid. Who needs training expenses when you've got such generous staff.
I suggest to all those even thinking about easy to hold fire and let them run short of crew. Only then will they invest in their people and pass the training costs on to Joe Bloggs. When people sign up to these schemes we all suffer because its another nail in our livelihoods.
Its enough to put you off oranges forever.
One again another classic example of airlines taking the mickey out of prospective employees. After all the training and hard work invested in your licence you now (apparently) have to pay for the job as well.
Easy claim its people are its number one asset. I bet they are the pounds their chucking in for their training. No wonder they can afford to fly people around the continent for 20 quid. Who needs training expenses when you've got such generous staff.
I suggest to all those even thinking about easy to hold fire and let them run short of crew. Only then will they invest in their people and pass the training costs on to Joe Bloggs. When people sign up to these schemes we all suffer because its another nail in our livelihoods.
Its enough to put you off oranges forever.
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Questions
Forgive me, I am very new to the industry (Modular Training). Can you explain what Easy are asking? and what they offer in the way of wages, length of employment and type ratings, for us to cough up 23K? What is a Bond?
A barrage of questions that will hopefully stem my ignorance!
Regards Chris
A barrage of questions that will hopefully stem my ignorance!
Regards Chris
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Well we've been having a great little debate about this in the Wannabe's forum. It would seem from the reaction that a lot of newbies (and some that aren't so new) think it's a fantastic setup. 
It would appear that both Easy and 'The Ryans' have reduced their minimum requirements over the last week. Perhaps the supply of rated drivers is coming to an end.
It would appear that both Easy and 'The Ryans' have reduced their minimum requirements over the last week. Perhaps the supply of rated drivers is coming to an end.
I have 23K and have applied ages ago, but it's got me no where! From what I've seen, being prepared to stump up the cash does not put you any nearer to an interview, but then maybe things are changing...
S
S
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My hubby is an army heli pilot leaving in 2 years and about to start his distance learning ATPL I'm just doing a bit of research into this myself since I will have to make big sacrifices of time together and money (nothing different to the army then!) if he's going to go for it.
We are unsure if it's a good idea given the cost and the current market for jobs. He and his mates seem to be budgeting about £22k for the ATPL & MCC etc (some exemptions) but no one seems to have realised (or have I misunderstood?) that a) hardly anyone is recruiting, b) there are loads of already type rated experienced 737 pilots ready to fill jobs when they do recruit and c) no one pays to train you for type so you have to pay yourself another approx £15k?? d) unless you go to EZY and get locked into working for a horrible company for 5 years.
I had doubts before but having trailed around many websites and the forums here, I wonder whether he would be better getting a civvy job, doing distance learning and applying when the market improves. Also, if you do your ATPL and then are unemployed, do you become uncurrent and have to take some exams again at further cost to yourself?
All advice gratefully received, sorry to barge in on your website boys!
We are unsure if it's a good idea given the cost and the current market for jobs. He and his mates seem to be budgeting about £22k for the ATPL & MCC etc (some exemptions) but no one seems to have realised (or have I misunderstood?) that a) hardly anyone is recruiting, b) there are loads of already type rated experienced 737 pilots ready to fill jobs when they do recruit and c) no one pays to train you for type so you have to pay yourself another approx £15k?? d) unless you go to EZY and get locked into working for a horrible company for 5 years.
I had doubts before but having trailed around many websites and the forums here, I wonder whether he would be better getting a civvy job, doing distance learning and applying when the market improves. Also, if you do your ATPL and then are unemployed, do you become uncurrent and have to take some exams again at further cost to yourself?
All advice gratefully received, sorry to barge in on your website boys!
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Speaking generally, if he's leaving in two years, then it's hard to predict what the job market will be like. However, I'll chance my arm and say (WorldWar III/Gulf War II apart) that things will probably be looking better.
The bottom line is, if he wants an airline job (and the merits of that could fill a whole different thread) then better to be ready to apply for the jobs when the next upturn comes.
Also, if and when next upturn comes, not all airlines will be asking people to pay for their own type rating.
So the bottom line is, if you can afford it and he want's to go fixed wing, get the ATPL and if you're lucky, he'll be in a good position to apply for jobs when he comes out.
Of course, he could always stay rotary, earn less money and enjoy his flying.
Hope that's of some help. Others may have different views - obviously all above simply my own opinion.
The bottom line is, if he wants an airline job (and the merits of that could fill a whole different thread) then better to be ready to apply for the jobs when the next upturn comes.
Also, if and when next upturn comes, not all airlines will be asking people to pay for their own type rating.
So the bottom line is, if you can afford it and he want's to go fixed wing, get the ATPL and if you're lucky, he'll be in a good position to apply for jobs when he comes out.
Of course, he could always stay rotary, earn less money and enjoy his flying.
Hope that's of some help. Others may have different views - obviously all above simply my own opinion.
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I have to say, that although I am not against wannabes opting to buy their own type ratings (a position I predict I will be in) the EasyJet scheme looks very dodgy indeed. However, I don't think one would be bonded as you would simply owe the money back if you choose to leave. What concerns me is why one would owe back so much (est £25k inc interest?) and what happens if they decide to get rid of you?
If you are sacked or made redundant and they stand the cost in such circumstances then maybe, just maybe the extra expense is worthwhile for some. If you still owe them the remainder then this is simply a financing scheme.
If you are sacked or made redundant and they stand the cost in such circumstances then maybe, just maybe the extra expense is worthwhile for some. If you still owe them the remainder then this is simply a financing scheme.
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If you have paid £23K for your 73 type rating (and presumebly line training) then surely you can not be bonded for any length of time?
You would be mad to pay a bond for a type rating you have already paid for.
Regardless of it being moral, surely £23K for a 73 type rating and line training is somewhat excessive.
You would be mad to pay a bond for a type rating you have already paid for.
Regardless of it being moral, surely £23K for a 73 type rating and line training is somewhat excessive.
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Thanks maximum,
I feel slightly less bleak about the whole thing. I guess it is a gamble which will hopefully pay off, and if it doesn't 22k on a mortgage over a lifetime isn't so bad... Still interested in hearing anyone's views.
I feel slightly less bleak about the whole thing. I guess it is a gamble which will hopefully pay off, and if it doesn't 22k on a mortgage over a lifetime isn't so bad... Still interested in hearing anyone's views.
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worriedwife, you're very welcome, glad to be of help.
A couple more thoughts - if money is a worry (when is it not?) has he looked into getting his civvy helicopter licences? I know it can be a can of worms with instrument ratings etc., but obviously worth considering if at all cheaper. Employment still hard to find and less secure in the rotary world I know, but hopefully with his experience worth considering even if just to discount it out of hand.
I would be very wary about paying for a type rating - again simply because he's already an experienced aviator and a company should be glad to get his skills. With any upturn, airlines will be hiring who will pay for his type rating. I know of at least one major UK independent which has hired a number of ex-army chopper pilots, and hold them in high regard. (Not hiring at the moment I'm afraid.)
In my opinion the bottom line would be that he takes the route into civvy flying that costs the least money - if that's rotary then he should stay with that. He could then gradually do the fixed wing bit while still being employed as a pilot and getting used to the civvy world. Believe me, the airlines aren't all they're cracked up to be. Again, I know a few ex army and navy chopper pilots who were quite shocked at the amount of time they have to spend at work - even compared to the military. (Obviously doesn't compare to tours in Bosnia and the like, but certainly much less enjoyable and much harder work than they imagined!)
Anyway, good luck to you both.
A couple more thoughts - if money is a worry (when is it not?) has he looked into getting his civvy helicopter licences? I know it can be a can of worms with instrument ratings etc., but obviously worth considering if at all cheaper. Employment still hard to find and less secure in the rotary world I know, but hopefully with his experience worth considering even if just to discount it out of hand.
I would be very wary about paying for a type rating - again simply because he's already an experienced aviator and a company should be glad to get his skills. With any upturn, airlines will be hiring who will pay for his type rating. I know of at least one major UK independent which has hired a number of ex-army chopper pilots, and hold them in high regard. (Not hiring at the moment I'm afraid.)
In my opinion the bottom line would be that he takes the route into civvy flying that costs the least money - if that's rotary then he should stay with that. He could then gradually do the fixed wing bit while still being employed as a pilot and getting used to the civvy world. Believe me, the airlines aren't all they're cracked up to be. Again, I know a few ex army and navy chopper pilots who were quite shocked at the amount of time they have to spend at work - even compared to the military. (Obviously doesn't compare to tours in Bosnia and the like, but certainly much less enjoyable and much harder work than they imagined!)
Anyway, good luck to you both.
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Worriedwife,
Ignore SleazyJet and it's methods. It is an airline that has long dissapeared up its own posterior and is not going to really represent the market in general.
If your hubby has experience, whether it be rotary or fixed wing then he will get a job if he tries hard enough. It will depend on his attitude. If he 'expects' a job then you are in for a long haul. If he is ready to take what's on offer and work his way up the civil ladder then he'll get a command with a civil airline before too long depending on the market. Just remember that the civil world owes the military pilot nothing. He chose to play big boy games for eight/sixteen years and that's been his pleasure, now it's time to join the real world.
I'd go for it, but as yet avoid paying for a type rating.
Ignore SleazyJet and it's methods. It is an airline that has long dissapeared up its own posterior and is not going to really represent the market in general.
If your hubby has experience, whether it be rotary or fixed wing then he will get a job if he tries hard enough. It will depend on his attitude. If he 'expects' a job then you are in for a long haul. If he is ready to take what's on offer and work his way up the civil ladder then he'll get a command with a civil airline before too long depending on the market. Just remember that the civil world owes the military pilot nothing. He chose to play big boy games for eight/sixteen years and that's been his pleasure, now it's time to join the real world.
I'd go for it, but as yet avoid paying for a type rating.
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Thank you
I think what he'd like most is to do is police or air ambulance for job satisfaction. I've looked into this and he is going to be 500 hours short which would mean going to oil rigs first to get hours up then applying (neither of us like this option re: danger etc). Also, they prefer pilots with mainly mil. hours + there will be many with a lot more hours than him.
He is not too bothered about money if he enjoys his job, but the idea is if you can't do your ideal flying then you say 'show me the money' and go to airlines and be able to afford nice holidays instead. He'd be happy to stay rotary - I think he will just go for the one where he is most likely to get a job. Also you have to bear in mind even if you are unemployed for a year or so when you finally get an airline job you will easily be able to 'pay yourself back' the money you spent on training and being unemployed whereas in rotary the wages are lower so it's more of a financial gamble, ie. you get less return for your investment. Anyone know which companies other than BASL, McAlpines & Police/Medical Aviation Services recruit heli pilots?
I'll get him to read all your advice when he gets back. We have til xmas to make a final decision and stick to it so I or he may be back for more advice later. Better go, this is quite addictive - and I'm not even a pilot!
I think what he'd like most is to do is police or air ambulance for job satisfaction. I've looked into this and he is going to be 500 hours short which would mean going to oil rigs first to get hours up then applying (neither of us like this option re: danger etc). Also, they prefer pilots with mainly mil. hours + there will be many with a lot more hours than him.
He is not too bothered about money if he enjoys his job, but the idea is if you can't do your ideal flying then you say 'show me the money' and go to airlines and be able to afford nice holidays instead. He'd be happy to stay rotary - I think he will just go for the one where he is most likely to get a job. Also you have to bear in mind even if you are unemployed for a year or so when you finally get an airline job you will easily be able to 'pay yourself back' the money you spent on training and being unemployed whereas in rotary the wages are lower so it's more of a financial gamble, ie. you get less return for your investment. Anyone know which companies other than BASL, McAlpines & Police/Medical Aviation Services recruit heli pilots?
I'll get him to read all your advice when he gets back. We have til xmas to make a final decision and stick to it so I or he may be back for more advice later. Better go, this is quite addictive - and I'm not even a pilot!
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WorriedWife
The easyJet type-rating scheme only applies to pilots with between 500 and 1500 hours. I assume your hubby has more than that? If not, this is easyJet's own explanation of their scheme: click here . Far better to read it yourself than rely on secondhand information from those of us here who might have another agenda!
However, there are more jobs out there than some would have you believe, and most reputable airlines would be prepared to take the risk of training an ex-military pilot at their own expense - and that may well include easyJet. Their direct entry pilot scheme is still open, as far as I know.
The best way to find out what's out there is direct contact with all the potential employers you can find. Get your hubby to join BALPA and the IPA; both offer employment assistance services with comprehensive databases of UK-based airlines - and they are cheap to join for unemployed or trainee pilots. Another helpful resource is CoPilot Publications. I don't have an address for them, but they have been mentioned in the Wannabes forum a few times recently - try a search there.
There are many, many ex-military pilots here who are now well ensconced in the airlines. I'm sure we are all delighted to help out with further advice if you need it.
Good Luck!
PS Try a fish for info on rotary opportunities in the Rotorheads forum.
The easyJet type-rating scheme only applies to pilots with between 500 and 1500 hours. I assume your hubby has more than that? If not, this is easyJet's own explanation of their scheme: click here . Far better to read it yourself than rely on secondhand information from those of us here who might have another agenda!
However, there are more jobs out there than some would have you believe, and most reputable airlines would be prepared to take the risk of training an ex-military pilot at their own expense - and that may well include easyJet. Their direct entry pilot scheme is still open, as far as I know.
The best way to find out what's out there is direct contact with all the potential employers you can find. Get your hubby to join BALPA and the IPA; both offer employment assistance services with comprehensive databases of UK-based airlines - and they are cheap to join for unemployed or trainee pilots. Another helpful resource is CoPilot Publications. I don't have an address for them, but they have been mentioned in the Wannabes forum a few times recently - try a search there.
There are many, many ex-military pilots here who are now well ensconced in the airlines. I'm sure we are all delighted to help out with further advice if you need it.
Good Luck!
PS Try a fish for info on rotary opportunities in the Rotorheads forum.
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Scroggs,
Thank you, will do all those things, and I had already looked at the EasyJet website. I think that scheme may well be finished by the time he is looking for jobs anyway; I really just wanted to understand the situation with type ratings, which I now do.
By the way he did other army stuff before becoming a pilot and is an offr so he has less hours than you would think (the army like to throw their money away training people and then sending them to fly a desk). Will finish with an absolute max of 1400 hours unless very lucky (or unlucky if you consider current political situation in Gulf), 'tho I suppose there will be some extra hours from the ATPL etc and we might consider taking a working holiday to America to get some cheaper flying hours in. How do you think that would affect his chances?
Thank you, will do all those things, and I had already looked at the EasyJet website. I think that scheme may well be finished by the time he is looking for jobs anyway; I really just wanted to understand the situation with type ratings, which I now do.
By the way he did other army stuff before becoming a pilot and is an offr so he has less hours than you would think (the army like to throw their money away training people and then sending them to fly a desk). Will finish with an absolute max of 1400 hours unless very lucky (or unlucky if you consider current political situation in Gulf), 'tho I suppose there will be some extra hours from the ATPL etc and we might consider taking a working holiday to America to get some cheaper flying hours in. How do you think that would affect his chances?
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. No one but an irresponsible fool pays for their own type rating.
Fool, because you can't have any idea who will offer you a job, and the likelihood of it being on the type you bought is small. What a **** you'll look with a £15K 737 rating (thats about the going rate) and bet offered a job on an Airbus...
Irresponsible because you are screwing up the market for the rest of the jobseekers out there who aren't rich/daft/selfish enough to bribe an employer to take them.
Type ratings are one of an airline's natural business expenses and by paying this yourself you merely open yet another crack in our shaky foundations that the airlines are consistently chipping away at. Next we'll be PAYING THEM for the priviledge of flying their damn aeroplanes, just because of the selfishness of a few who started the rot. Don't do it!!!
I have seen people with bought type ratings put thru full courses anyway, and then bonded on a type they already had. Bwa ha ha ha!!! Serve them right.
As for a £23K type rating and a bond afterwards, firstly I doubt its true. Even EJ know you can't bond for more than the value of the training, and £15K is accepted as about the norm for a 737. Secondly, no fool takes a 5 yr bond on anything, no such period has ever existed before as far as I know, this is a pisstake. 2 Yrs is the max anyone is ever bonded for.
If you've paid yourself you CANNOT be bonded. That's pretty clear from a legal point of view. In any case it is doubtful if bonds are legal in the UK anyway.
Leave this scam well alone, for God's sake, as welll as for the sake of your fellow pilots.
Fool, because you can't have any idea who will offer you a job, and the likelihood of it being on the type you bought is small. What a **** you'll look with a £15K 737 rating (thats about the going rate) and bet offered a job on an Airbus...
Irresponsible because you are screwing up the market for the rest of the jobseekers out there who aren't rich/daft/selfish enough to bribe an employer to take them.
Type ratings are one of an airline's natural business expenses and by paying this yourself you merely open yet another crack in our shaky foundations that the airlines are consistently chipping away at. Next we'll be PAYING THEM for the priviledge of flying their damn aeroplanes, just because of the selfishness of a few who started the rot. Don't do it!!!
I have seen people with bought type ratings put thru full courses anyway, and then bonded on a type they already had. Bwa ha ha ha!!! Serve them right.
As for a £23K type rating and a bond afterwards, firstly I doubt its true. Even EJ know you can't bond for more than the value of the training, and £15K is accepted as about the norm for a 737. Secondly, no fool takes a 5 yr bond on anything, no such period has ever existed before as far as I know, this is a pisstake. 2 Yrs is the max anyone is ever bonded for.
If you've paid yourself you CANNOT be bonded. That's pretty clear from a legal point of view. In any case it is doubtful if bonds are legal in the UK anyway.
Leave this scam well alone, for God's sake, as welll as for the sake of your fellow pilots.