British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Originally Posted by bylgw

Possibility: New entrants will be directed to CitiFlyer or EuroFlyer before being allowed to bid to the dangled mainline carrot.

As far as I am aware those who applied for mainline and were successful have been offered mainline. Those who were successful for mainline but ticked the Euroflyer box have been offered the choice of either.

[sudden twang]

I thought BACF started about 2007 so how can anyone have 20-30 years service? Would 15 years be enough for a longhaul command?

[3Greens]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

I thought BACF started about 2007 so how can anyone have 20-30 years service? Would 15 years be enough for a longhaul command?

not even close

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

I thought BACF started about 2007 so how can anyone have 20-30 years service? Would 15 years be enough for a longhaul command?

Originally Posted by 3Greens

not even close

I suggest that you do some more homework. Prior to 2007 when the new CityFlyer was formed, there were several companies within which the CityFlyer pilots were employed. I'm not going to name them nor indeed tell you which ones were BA franchisees or wholly owned as all will be evident to you with a quick Google search. So, yes they do have sufficient seniority for a long haul command and they are definitely going to bid for them should the list be merged. As I said, wouldn't you?

[sudden twang]

Go on Confuscious give us a clue and would they go onto paypoint 24?

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

Go on Confuscious give us a clue and would they go onto paypoint 24?

The clue is probably in Wikipedia and yes to your question.

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

Go on Confuscious give us a clue and would they go onto paypoint 24?

And directly beneath the eligible long haul command bidders is a long list of short haul command and senior first officer wannabes. This has the potential to cause mayhem in many ways.

[sudden twang]

I suppose this is relevant to this thread as new joiners could be displaced and career paths would be affected.
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.

BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?

There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.

Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

I suppose this is relevant to this thread as new joiners could be displaced and career paths would be affected.
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.

BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?

There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.

Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂

I have no skin in this either and nope was not a Brymon laddie. 😉

Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.

I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.

[kendrick47247]

Originally Posted by Confusious

I have no skin in this either and nope was not a Brymon laddie. 😉

Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.

I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.

Putting a lot of stock into a completely unsubstantiated rumour, aren’t you

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by kendrick47247

Putting a lot of stock into a completely unsubstantiated rumour, aren’t you

Put the brakes on......look back and you'll see that I didn't start the rumour here. You'll also see that I said that none of my friends in BACF have heard of this rumour.

[thetimesreader84]

Originally Posted by kendrick47247

Putting a lot of stock into a completely unsubstantiated rumour, aren’t you

Unlike Confusious, I have heard this rumour, from an ex Balpa Rep who still had "fingers in the pie". I (SH FO) heard it late last year (just after the annual bid closed, which was a bit frustrating).

Essentially, BA will "pay" BALPA an amount that they think putting BACF on the msl is "worth". BALPA can then use that "money" to get concessions elsewhere - at the time, getting rid of the "Delta" was one example. BA are keen to do it as they think it'll help recruitment to BACF, BALPA are reluctant for reasons outlined above, but are struggling to justify refusal when they already allow EuroFlyer access, and the "money" would go quite a long way allegedly.

Personally I can see another BALPA stitch up coming down the track, where my career aspirations are cast aside again in favour of an extra 0.5% pension for PP24 LH Captains. It bears repeating that if you're PP34, SH, or an FO with less than about 8 years service, you arent even on BALPA's radar.

[sudden twang]

Confuscious

Laddie?

Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).

You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.

But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.

tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?

[Treestripe]

Course start date

Hey peeps I’m wondering if anyone like me has a course start date for BA Heathrow in Feb?

If so fancy dropping me a DM - I have a few questions.

Cheers

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by sudden twang

Confuscious

Laddie?

Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).

You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.

But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.

tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?

ST, you're way off the mark, but I take full responsibility for leading you that way. 😉

Your desire to be a fly on the wall is a little disconcerting. If 'Captain Manx' arrived on his 380 command course I would hope that the grown up folk at Big Airways would be welcoming to him/her. The lessons of CRM should put aside any instinct to ward off perceived predators from their close knit family.

Anyway, I can 100% assure you that I have no personal interest in this, but as said before I do have a number of long standing friends at CityFlyer, as I do Mainline. The rumour has found its way into BACF which of course could be the power of PPRuNE.

Off topic, the legendary PA38 Tomahawk with the spin characteristics of a demon, nevertheless a great little trainer.

Yes, anyone thinking of joining BA then definitely do it sooner rather than later. As you can read from this thread, seniority is king.

Whatever the outcome to the rumours, what matters above anything is happiness at work and safe flying.

[Max Angle]

If 'Captain Manx' arrived on his 380 command I would hope that the grown up folk at Big Airways would be welcoming to him/her.

The few grown ups might welcome him but the other 99% most certainly would not.

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by Max Angle

The few grown ups might welcome him but the other 99% most certainly would not.

Aww bless them, they'll soon get over it when they do some basic arithmetic. The hypothetical 'Captain Manx' having joined up in the mid eighties must surely be due to expire as a threat.

[GS-Alpha]

I have a few friends there who are in the top half of the BACF seniority list and they have would bid straight into a long haul command.

I cannot see any scenario where that would happen. The scope agreement is there to protect BA pilots. If the rumour is true, BA wants to fly bigger aircraft using a subsidiary’s pilots. There is no negotiation required with the subsidiary or it’s pilots. As far as I am aware, the question would purely be about whether BA pilots allow the subsidiary to operate the flights. If part of those negotiations involves the subsidiary’s pilots gaining a BA seniority number, they would join the bottom of the list, so no leapfrogging of current BA pilots could occur.

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by GS-Alpha

I cannot see any scenario where that would happen. The scope agreement is there to protect BA pilots. If the rumour is true, BA wants to fly bigger aircraft using a subsidiary’s pilots. There is no negotiation required with the subsidiary or it’s pilots. As far as I am aware, the question would purely be about whether BA pilots allow the subsidiary to operate the flights. If part of those negotiations involves the subsidiary’s pilots gaining a BA seniority number, they would join the bottom of the list, so no leapfrogging of current BA pilots could occur.

But surely if BA wishes to equip Cityflyer with 100+ seat aircraft then the Scope Agreement would become null and void? You can't just shred a part of the agreement that best suits you and leave the rest intact. That's why the original poster of this rumour put it one here I'm guessing.

[Jet Set Willie]

On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.