British Airways Direct Entry Pilot
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 353
Likes: 39
From: s england
I suppose this is relevant to this thread as new joiners could be displaced and career paths would be affected.
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.
BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?
There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.
Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.
BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?
There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.
Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
I suppose this is relevant to this thread as new joiners could be displaced and career paths would be affected.
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.
BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?
There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.
Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂
I have no skin in this game but you raise an interesting concept.
2 airlines owned by the same Opco wants to combine the seniority list.
BA to get around scope BACF pilots get to bid for longhaul some jumping to well over £200k pa
whats in it for the 4000 BA pilots?
There are many precedents, Cambrian for example. The colour of the plane I believe is irrelevant it’s more a case of who the owner is.
Don’t tell me you were Brymon Heralds 😂
Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.
I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.
Last edited by Confusious; 6th January 2023 at 10:35.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 124
Likes: 8
From: london
I have no skin in this either and nope was not a Brymon laddie. 😉
Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.
I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.
Yes as you say, It is relevant to this thread because 100+ BACF folk jumping over to Big Airways would stall the recruitment process for a while and more likely divert those in the process to LCY.
I also have no idea how the void of experience would be filled in BACF.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 336
Likes: 3
From: somewhere in the middle
Essentially, BA will "pay" BALPA an amount that they think putting BACF on the msl is "worth". BALPA can then use that "money" to get concessions elsewhere - at the time, getting rid of the "Delta" was one example. BA are keen to do it as they think it'll help recruitment to BACF, BALPA are reluctant for reasons outlined above, but are struggling to justify refusal when they already allow EuroFlyer access, and the "money" would go quite a long way allegedly.
Personally I can see another BALPA stitch up coming down the track, where my career aspirations are cast aside again in favour of an extra 0.5% pension for PP24 LH Captains. It bears repeating that if you're PP34, SH, or an FO with less than about 8 years service, you arent even on BALPA's radar.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 353
Likes: 39
From: s england
Confuscious
Laddie?
Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).
You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.
But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.
tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?
Laddie?
Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).
You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.
But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.
tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
Confuscious
Laddie?
Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).
You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.
But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.
tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?
Laddie?
Just as well you have no skin in the game.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when you called the BA TC doing your command convex to the 350/380 laddie from your lofty sub 50 on the seniority list having joined Manx in the mid 80s ( just for example).
You do allude to the merger causing issues.
I’d have thought ( having done my homework as instructed) the solution for BA is obvious.
But back to the thread joining BA asap to get on their seniority list would seem prudent if BA is the right fit for you.
tic: I flew a BA flying club Tomahawk in BA livery in 1987 ish can I have a 787 command ?
Your desire to be a fly on the wall is a little disconcerting. If 'Captain Manx' arrived on his 380 command course I would hope that the grown up folk at Big Airways would be welcoming to him/her. The lessons of CRM should put aside any instinct to ward off perceived predators from their close knit family.
Anyway, I can 100% assure you that I have no personal interest in this, but as said before I do have a number of long standing friends at CityFlyer, as I do Mainline. The rumour has found its way into BACF which of course could be the power of PPRuNE.
Off topic, the legendary PA38 Tomahawk with the spin characteristics of a demon, nevertheless a great little trainer.
Yes, anyone thinking of joining BA then definitely do it sooner rather than later. As you can read from this thread, seniority is king.
Whatever the outcome to the rumours, what matters above anything is happiness at work and safe flying.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
If 'Captain Manx' arrived on his 380 command I would hope that the grown up folk at Big Airways would be welcoming to him/her.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 898
Likes: 73
From: UK
I have a few friends there who are in the top half of the BACF seniority list and they have would bid straight into a long haul command.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
I cannot see any scenario where that would happen. The scope agreement is there to protect BA pilots. If the rumour is true, BA wants to fly bigger aircraft using a subsidiary’s pilots. There is no negotiation required with the subsidiary or it’s pilots. As far as I am aware, the question would purely be about whether BA pilots allow the subsidiary to operate the flights. If part of those negotiations involves the subsidiary’s pilots gaining a BA seniority number, they would join the bottom of the list, so no leapfrogging of current BA pilots could occur.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
From: In the mines
On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 124
Likes: 8
From: london
On the above 2 posts, subsidiary pilots are already on the MSL, this happened with the creation of Euroflyer - Fact. Scope has already been scrapped at LCY. Aircraft can now fly over 100+ seats as long as over 50% of the flights depart LCY - Fact. The rest regarding BACF I understand to be a complete rumour, so I am glad this is a rumour website lol. Don't expect any change any time soon.
This cityflyer rumour has been doing the rounds for years already.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: On a Flight Level
A few senior pals in City Flyer have started talking A380/350 flight sim add on packages to practice handling and crossing procedures. The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior they’d be.
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 34
From: London,England
The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior
place to be. That, and the fact that it does a lot of low credit East Coast flying at the moment. I suspect the 787 is currently the senior fleet
Not that any BACF is going to have to worry about that.
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 911
Likes: 31
From: At altitude surviving on bleed air.
A few senior pals in City Flyer have started talking A380/350 flight sim add on packages to practice handling and crossing procedures. The consensus seems to be they wouldn’t need to or even consider the 777/787 due to how senior they’d be.
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
I said I thought they would at best get the Pay point but fleet wise just get what’s going i.e short haul Heathrow to appease all. How did it work when BMI merged?
Last edited by Confusious; 8th January 2023 at 11:03.