British Airways Direct Entry Pilot
Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: U.K.
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I appreciate not many will have flown more than 1 or 2 of the current long haul aircraft. But is anyone able to provide some pro’s and con’s on the different long haul fleet options. Thanks.
B777 great variety, has carribbean routes ex-LGW. But lots of east coast usa which isn't well liked.
B787 huge network, lots of long range stuff.
A380 very small network, but small personal fleet and you'll know the destinations very well. Also very few 2 crew trips so does a full trip less every month than the 777.
A350 small fleet, getting some really good routes.
I've only flown the 777 but that is my impression talking to others.
Join Date: Nov 2023
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Would someone be able to clarify the breakdown of salary. I have seen the long haul pilot flyer with the package over the first 8 years. I appreciate the basic salary plus FPS gives the figures provided starting at approx £81.6k.
1. Is the 713 block hours plus 72 hrs of holiday p.a fairly representative for FPS?
2. Subsistence allowance of £4.48 per hour when away. On average what are the monthly/annual hours for this and is it taxed at the standard rate and included in your monthly pay check. Appreciating this is most likely money to be used as expenses just seeing how much of it is likely to be seen?
Thanks
1. Is the 713 block hours plus 72 hrs of holiday p.a fairly representative for FPS?
2. Subsistence allowance of £4.48 per hour when away. On average what are the monthly/annual hours for this and is it taxed at the standard rate and included in your monthly pay check. Appreciating this is most likely money to be used as expenses just seeing how much of it is likely to be seen?
Thanks
Would someone be able to clarify the breakdown of salary. I have seen the long haul pilot flyer with the package over the first 8 years. I appreciate the basic salary plus FPS gives the figures provided starting at approx £81.6k.
1. Is the 713 block hours plus 72 hrs of holiday p.a fairly representative for FPS?
2. Subsistence allowance of £4.48 per hour when away. On average what are the monthly/annual hours for this and is it taxed at the standard rate and included in your monthly pay check. Appreciating this is most likely money to be used as expenses just seeing how much of it is likely to be seen?
Thanks
1. Is the 713 block hours plus 72 hrs of holiday p.a fairly representative for FPS?
2. Subsistence allowance of £4.48 per hour when away. On average what are the monthly/annual hours for this and is it taxed at the standard rate and included in your monthly pay check. Appreciating this is most likely money to be used as expenses just seeing how much of it is likely to be seen?
Thanks
2. Work on 2500hrs/yr. A portion is not taxed depending on where you go see here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/expenses...outside-the-uk
as a rough average I'd work on half of it being taxed.
How much you'll spend really depends on your taste for pot noodle vs lobster. And water vs cocktails. You'll be paying for around 70 full days of expenses over the course of the year so use that as a guide.
Also note for those who are joining short haul will make less subsistance as more of their nights are at home. My guess plan on 1500hrs/yr if mainly daytrips, up to 2300hrs/yr if you do lots of nightstops and tours. And daytrips are 100% taxable too.
Last edited by White Van Driver; 14th Feb 2024 at 07:28.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Hi
How far from Heathrow in the UK is commuting practical for long haul? Inverness/ Aberdeen?
Apologies if this has been covered back in thread somewhere, but time was not a friend today. Therefore, I'd appreciate a nudge in that direction if appropriate and I'll make time for a deep dive later 😁
Regards
GC
How far from Heathrow in the UK is commuting practical for long haul? Inverness/ Aberdeen?
Apologies if this has been covered back in thread somewhere, but time was not a friend today. Therefore, I'd appreciate a nudge in that direction if appropriate and I'll make time for a deep dive later 😁
Regards
GC
Hi
How far from Heathrow in the UK is commuting practical for long haul? Inverness/ Aberdeen?
Apologies if this has been covered back in thread somewhere, but time was not a friend today. Therefore, I'd appreciate a nudge in that direction if appropriate and I'll make time for a deep dive later 😁
Regards
GC
How far from Heathrow in the UK is commuting practical for long haul? Inverness/ Aberdeen?
Apologies if this has been covered back in thread somewhere, but time was not a friend today. Therefore, I'd appreciate a nudge in that direction if appropriate and I'll make time for a deep dive later 😁
Regards
GC
I'd think of practical places in terms of number of flights per day more than distance - Inverness may be 500km closer than Madrid but it has only 2(?) flights a day whereas Madrid has many flights. We'll worth an extra 45minutes flying time if there's 8 flights a day to choose from.
Join Date: Feb 2024
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Guys, how much a short haul and long haul f/o can expect net pay?
And upgrade to captain? How long should it take for experienced FO. I know it is seniority, but just wondering here
And upgrade to captain? How long should it take for experienced FO. I know it is seniority, but just wondering here
I'd summarise it as
B777 great variety, has carribbean routes ex-LGW. But lots of east coast usa which isn't well liked.
B787 huge network, lots of long range stuff.
A380 very small network, but small personal fleet and you'll know the destinations very well. Also very few 2 crew trips so does a full trip less every month than the 777.
A350 small fleet, getting some really good routes.
I've only flown the 777 but that is my impression talking to others.
B777 great variety, has carribbean routes ex-LGW. But lots of east coast usa which isn't well liked.
B787 huge network, lots of long range stuff.
A380 very small network, but small personal fleet and you'll know the destinations very well. Also very few 2 crew trips so does a full trip less every month than the 777.
A350 small fleet, getting some really good routes.
I've only flown the 777 but that is my impression talking to others.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: London, UK
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777
Pros- Great network, lots of movement on/off fleet so likely to move up the seniority list more quickly. Lots of DEP likely to join this fleet so seniority will improve rapidly
Neg- Lots of two crew, east coast, low credit trips so expect to work 5-6 trips per month and most weekends
787
Pros- Great network. Large fleet and will see the biggest expansion in future years. It is also rumoured to be dual fleeted with 777-10. Lots of movement and lots of DEPs expected so similar to above.
Neg- Expect to work most weekends as a junior pilot. Very efficient fleet so expect high hours.
350
Pros- New aircraft. Small fleet of 18 aircraft so expect to fly with same crew more regularly.
Good network, if somewhat limited. Seems to be the most likely fleet to enjoy weekends off as a junior pilot.
Neg- No future deliveries, and no orders. Most pilots relatively new to the fleet, which means there is unlikely to be much, if any movement in the next few years. Relative seniority will stay the same once all recruitment to the fleet is complete in the next few months. Expect to be junior for a long time and work more two crew, low credit trips.
380- Pros- Again a small fleet of 12 aircraft so you will become familiar with crew and destinations. High credit trips.
Most inefficient fleet so expect more time off.
Neg- No future orders, and likely to be the first fleet to downsize in future years. Very few destinations so little variety. Few weekends off as this seems to be the currency of choice.
Pros- Great network, lots of movement on/off fleet so likely to move up the seniority list more quickly. Lots of DEP likely to join this fleet so seniority will improve rapidly
Neg- Lots of two crew, east coast, low credit trips so expect to work 5-6 trips per month and most weekends
787
Pros- Great network. Large fleet and will see the biggest expansion in future years. It is also rumoured to be dual fleeted with 777-10. Lots of movement and lots of DEPs expected so similar to above.
Neg- Expect to work most weekends as a junior pilot. Very efficient fleet so expect high hours.
350
Pros- New aircraft. Small fleet of 18 aircraft so expect to fly with same crew more regularly.
Good network, if somewhat limited. Seems to be the most likely fleet to enjoy weekends off as a junior pilot.
Neg- No future deliveries, and no orders. Most pilots relatively new to the fleet, which means there is unlikely to be much, if any movement in the next few years. Relative seniority will stay the same once all recruitment to the fleet is complete in the next few months. Expect to be junior for a long time and work more two crew, low credit trips.
380- Pros- Again a small fleet of 12 aircraft so you will become familiar with crew and destinations. High credit trips.
Most inefficient fleet so expect more time off.
Neg- No future orders, and likely to be the first fleet to downsize in future years. Very few destinations so little variety. Few weekends off as this seems to be the currency of choice.
The point about weekend work is a bit misleading. I’m >80% on the fleet and have had 10 full weekends clear of work in the last five months with an early clear Saturday and Sunday as a day off or late report Sunday with Saturday clear on a couple of other occasions too and I haven’t even been specifically bidding for them off.
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You are right, looking at recent rosters it does appear weekends off are more available on the 380 than I had heard. And it does seem that a number of senior guys are migrating across to the 350 possibly on secondment. I assume this is because of the constant tech issues, and the low caps over recent months?
Join Date: Aug 2023
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You are right, looking at recent rosters it does appear weekends off are more available on the 380 than I had heard. And it does seem that a number of senior guys are migrating across to the 350 possibly on secondment. I assume this is because of the constant tech issues, and the low caps over recent months?
Furthermore there is also talk once again of mixed fleeting the A380 with the A350. For practical purposes it appears this would involve the A380 pilots being rostered to fly both types but not vice versa. I suspect that’s tactical from BA to be able to sort out some of the productivity issues with the A380 pilots and have them fill in on the A350 when it’s slack otherwise.
I don’t want this to come to pass (and don’t think it will anyway - it’s long been looked at but deemed impractical) but I suppose it would alleviate some of the job security concerns that some people have.
Last edited by Plastic787; 15th Feb 2024 at 07:58.
Funnily enough I was told by a TSC it’s unlikely to be paired with the 787 due to the 777/777-9 both having TAC and the 787 not. Do not underestimate the possibility of yet another standalone fleet either at this stage.
Furthermore there is also talk once again of mixed fleeting the A380 with the A350. For practical purposes it appears this would involve the A380 pilots being rostered to fly both types but not vice versa. I suspect that’s tactical from BA to be able to sort out some of the productivity issues with the A380 pilots and have them fill in on the A350 when it’s slack otherwise.
I don’t want this to come to pass (and don’t think it will anyway - it’s long been looked at but deemed impractical) but I suppose it would alleviate some of the job security concerns that some people have.
Furthermore there is also talk once again of mixed fleeting the A380 with the A350. For practical purposes it appears this would involve the A380 pilots being rostered to fly both types but not vice versa. I suspect that’s tactical from BA to be able to sort out some of the productivity issues with the A380 pilots and have them fill in on the A350 when it’s slack otherwise.
I don’t want this to come to pass (and don’t think it will anyway - it’s long been looked at but deemed impractical) but I suppose it would alleviate some of the job security concerns that some people have.
[QUOTE=SkyRocket10;11597157]777
Pros- Great network, lots of movement on/off fleet so likely to move up the seniority list more quickly. Lots of DEP likely to join this fleet so seniority will improve rapidly
Neg- Lots of two crew, east coast, low credit trips so expect to work 5-6 trips per month and most weekends
6 Trips a month! Does this happen often? I assume most trips are 3 days of work? To squeeze 6 into a month means only 2 days off between the trips. Add to that losing 2 nights of sleep in every 10. Always fancied long haul but this isn't that enticing. Am I missing something?
Pros- Great network, lots of movement on/off fleet so likely to move up the seniority list more quickly. Lots of DEP likely to join this fleet so seniority will improve rapidly
Neg- Lots of two crew, east coast, low credit trips so expect to work 5-6 trips per month and most weekends
6 Trips a month! Does this happen often? I assume most trips are 3 days of work? To squeeze 6 into a month means only 2 days off between the trips. Add to that losing 2 nights of sleep in every 10. Always fancied long haul but this isn't that enticing. Am I missing something?
Join Date: Aug 2023
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[QUOTE=Fox_one;11597665]
if you haven’t tried LH I’m afraid to say even 4 trips per month is tiring
777
Pros- Great network, lots of movement on/off fleet so likely to move up the seniority list more quickly. Lots of DEP likely to join this fleet so seniority will improve rapidly
Neg- Lots of two crew, east coast, low credit trips so expect to work 5-6 trips per month and most weekends
6 Trips a month! Does this happen often? I assume most trips are 3 days of work? To squeeze 6 into a month means only 2 days off between the trips. Add to that losing 2 nights of sleep in every 10. Always fancied long haul but this isn't that enticing. Am I missing something?
Pros- Great network, lots of movement on/off fleet so likely to move up the seniority list more quickly. Lots of DEP likely to join this fleet so seniority will improve rapidly
Neg- Lots of two crew, east coast, low credit trips so expect to work 5-6 trips per month and most weekends
6 Trips a month! Does this happen often? I assume most trips are 3 days of work? To squeeze 6 into a month means only 2 days off between the trips. Add to that losing 2 nights of sleep in every 10. Always fancied long haul but this isn't that enticing. Am I missing something?
[QUOTE=Fox_one;11597665]
Nope. The bottom of the 777 is horrific. If on a month with no leave 6 trips a month is not uncommon at all although more frequently it seems to be five and a half (with a trip that carries out into the next month). Days off between trips almost always seem to be be 2 at the lower end.
Dont forget too that you’ll be joining with minimum reserve points in which you can expect the company to give you a minimum of one day off (two local nights) between trips. And for the two years or so until you catch up with everybody else with your reserve points expect that pleasure with alarming frequency. Worth bearing in mind if you’re planning to commute, although if you’re busy on reserve at least the hotel bills won’t rack up quite as much.
6 Trips a month! Does this happen often? I assume most trips are 3 days of work? To squeeze 6 into a month means only 2 days off between the trips. Add to that losing 2 nights of sleep in every 10. Always fancied long haul but this isn't that enticing. Am I missing something?
Dont forget too that you’ll be joining with minimum reserve points in which you can expect the company to give you a minimum of one day off (two local nights) between trips. And for the two years or so until you catch up with everybody else with your reserve points expect that pleasure with alarming frequency. Worth bearing in mind if you’re planning to commute, although if you’re busy on reserve at least the hotel bills won’t rack up quite as much.