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LGW BA lite

Old 23rd Sep 2021, 13:53
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: everywhere
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It's a pity the BALPA Ryanair counsel couldn't display the same resolve, their capitulation has had ramifications all over
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 15:45
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2015
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"Other Airlines" - are there many AOC's left in the UK? Sadly after CV19 with the exception of DHL Air perhaps, BALPA are going to struggle to have any leeway
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 16:25
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Manchester
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IAG to buy EasyJet UK.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 16:30
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 10

Are BALPA helping Ryanair with their PTSD or somesuch?
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 17:53
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 242
If Ezy Uk was a separate company from the rest it could be possible. But it’s not so pretty unlikely. But who knows these days? Would be better than Wizz!
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 18:43
  #26 (permalink)  
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why would IAG buy just the UK part?. I am sure they would be more than happy to buy the lot at the right price.
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Old 23rd Sep 2021, 23:50
  #27 (permalink)  
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Forgive me if I am missing something here but I am struggling to see why people are rejoicing at BALPA turning their backs on BA. At the end of the day, smaller airlines need less staff. Perhaps it's a game of brinkmanship at play here, which the union and its members are prepared for. However, if this is not the case, then I struggle to see that there is anything worth getting excited about a significantly smaller BA and at a time when there are hundreds of BA pilots who have either been made redundant or who are on unpaid leave that is being subsidised by their colleagues.
Mister Geezer is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2021, 06:24
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 174
While I do not know the exact details of this story, sometimes it is better to take a hit on the number of jobs than to accept constant reduction in pay just to keep jobs.

Again, not all the details, so there might be even more valid reasons to say no, but a erosion of T&E hits all pilots and sometimes it is better to take the job löss.
the_stranger is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2021, 07:12
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 31
I think the point was that BA basically wanted the right to do whatever they wanted to the LGW BA contracts without the need to consult Balpa. What’s the point of separating a workforce and then eroding the conditions as they like when they like?. We’ve already seen them do this at easyjet where because Balpa gave way there are people with loads of different contracts (instead of having everyone reduce like most uk airlines did) and Ez not having any intention of bringing anyone back to original contracts but instead introduce UBer like temp contracts when they need more pilots , hopefully this wont be allowed but depends on Balpa to show some strength. It ends up creating resentment against colleagues and the union. The clue is in the title: Union
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 09:27
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 772
I think competition between airlines can only improve pilot salaries especially if there is a shortage. What BALPA needs to do now is a concerted campaign to keep British jobs for UK licence holders like EASA/FAA jurisdictions seem to.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 10:31
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 70
All you need to do is look at the state of Iberia to get and idea of what IAG want to do with BA , a leopard doesn’t change his spots . Iberia SH and LH has been farmed out to several parts of the “group” , LGW Lite is only the tip of the iceberg and would set a dangerous precedent. Well done to BALPA on this occasion
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 15:35
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 484
I think it's a mighty good thing to have said 'enough is enough'. The viability of an LGW BA base would categorically not boil down to whether the flight crew was paid the same as their LHR colleagues - the command salary was broadly similar to the old Gatwick numbers, so it was really only the FO scales that were not up to scratch. A grand total saving of not much more than £1m/yr in wages. All after offering a scheduling agreement significantly more fatiguing (read: far more hours per year) than the LHR offer. More could be saved through the increased use of single-engine taxi procedures.

As others have said, sometimes, simply getting as many jobs as possible isn't the right answer.
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Old 24th Sep 2021, 17:21
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 93
Indeed, well done BALPA, and you should all be proud. It'll never catch on in many parts of the world, but at least you've kicked the fools in BA management into touch for the time being. We all know what these crafty buggers would really like, and indeed, we see it at Iberia and elsewhere. They just can't help themselves.
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Old 25th Sep 2021, 10:04
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,365
Speaking as a passenegr/customer I have a couple of questions

1 At what point does British Airways stop becoming British

2 At what point is BA 2021 so different from its predecessors that it is just trading on the brand name without the service and operational competence the brand was built .

Some thing that seems common in todays business world is to rely entirely on an established brand while weakening the product to save costs , Before long people do notice this and they dont like it and the much vaunted Brand is devalued to the point it becomes almost a liability. I though BA had learned their lesson from 20 years ago when they cabin crewed the LGW long haul leisure routes with agency/outsourced staff.-who were very clealry not BA.

In the wider world Waitrose v Lidl is a good example , 20 years ago if you bought your food from Waitrose Lidl was just some upstart , but lots of people found out that in many areas Waitrose charged premium prices for products that were no better than Lidl ones ( some obviously are still better quality of course ) . While it has not put Waitrose out of business it has badly hurt them, they are cutting back while LIDL and their German cousin Aldi keep expanding. .

I thought the new BA CEO ) was keen on restoring BA s values, but from reading this thread that too seems to smoke and mirrors.. , Cruz was basically a disaster from a branding and service view point, ( For which Walsh should have got sacked for employing him) . Either way good luck to the BA staff caught in the middle of all this
pax britanica is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2021, 12:44
  #35 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: sussex
Posts: 613
Another own goal by Balpa. Easyjet will just expand further into the BA market.
The bid line Barons are still running the show.
stormin norman is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2021, 14:06
  #36 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Middle East
Posts: 65
EasyJet don't seem to have the appetite for anything for some years and the chief share holder is telling them to slow down even more.
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Old 27th Sep 2021, 20:00
  #37 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 488
So who is going to do the BA short haul work ex LGW - Iberia, Vueling, EI or BA?
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 08:58
  #38 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK, Paris, Peckham, New York
Posts: 17

Perhaps a little unfair. The Ryr council and union is still very young, it was the first time they went through such a process and ryr had in effect started the redundancy process on over 340 jobs.

Now seeing how ryr are totally taking the mick out the agreement I think should this happen again, it maybe wiser to let the company lay people off in order to not get another haircut.

Otherwise the ramifications industry wide are just too great.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 21:19
  #39 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 127

He isn’t running the show!
a5in_the_sim is online now  
Old 4th Oct 2021, 10:39
  #40 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 31
Lets Hope Balpa stood their ground and do not give in to diminishing terms or different contracts to those that LHR. Would just set precedent. I doubt BA would ever give way those slots at lgw.
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