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Old 11th Oct 2021, 14:01
  #61 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ask crewing
Posts: 207

What do you think should have happened?
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Old 11th Oct 2021, 23:24
  #62 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Homeless
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Professional trade union negotiators? (The budget should just about cover it)

an open and honest consultation, with representatives that represent the community as a whole not just the interests of PP24 old boys club (hence the term representative)

A deal whereby the ‘union’ of pilots negotiate a fair deal rather than sending the 249 most vulnerable members of the ‘community’ off to the slaughter with no aid in a bid to protect the precious ‘T&C’s’ ?

When the chair steps down after a revelation of misconduct during negotiations by company representatives, this would normally be rather telling. But the narrative enables a convenient sweeping under the carpet..

I could go on.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 07:30
  #63 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ask crewing
Posts: 207
What would you have considered a 'fair' deal? afaik BA insisted on statutory redundancy packages for ALL staff despite BALPA wanting to improve the package. Are you suggesting that the selection process which was based on the agreements that ~4000 pilots had worked to their whole careers should not have been respected?

That's not why the chair stepped down though is it? I assume you read his resignation letter. Wasn't said chair a PP34 FO too which isn't exactly the PP24 capts old boys club.

I really really hope you get back flying asap and hopefully when the anger subsides can have a long and fulfilling career in BA. But CV19 has been the biggest [email protected] we've ever ever seen in aviation and it's sad that it caused the first CR pilots in BA. Would anything have avoided this though I'm not convinced. Thankfully we can see green shoots and I truly hope this results in better outlook for you
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 09:48
  #64 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Surrey
Posts: 477
Lots of airlines in financially worse situations managed to avoid pilot CR though didn’t they? If balpa had stood fast with part time, or simply a temporary pay cut for all, to cover the costs of the surplus, there would have been no CR. (I’m told those at the top repeatedly said “if you have any ideas which may save jobs let us know” and then when such suggestions were offered simply said “oh no we can’t do that” )
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 11:47
  #65 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,242
Don’t forget they (BA BALPA) had not long come out of a strike in not particularly great shape so what form do you suggest this “standing fast” should have taken?

As I recall things it appeared that BA were utterly and absolutely intent on CR for at least some of the pilot force…TBH I think BALPA did reasonably OK in the circumstances, though I’m still a bit about the way things were handled on some fleets.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 15:56
  #66 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Homeless
Posts: 4
FL370 Officeboy

ithe implication that the 249 had *not* been working for their careers?

the agreement wasn't adhered to though, was it? not going into specifics, but many aspects which would have helped members of the 249 were not honoured...

the said chair was also ex BACF and on the 747 a technically redundant fleet, no? Gosh wasn't it lucky he/she wasn't caught out in the number of redundant pilots

don't get me wrong, the chair seemed like a decent person, but there's no doubt is all very strange.

Do you think had PP24 not been offered in exchange for 0 CR ba wouldn't have sniffed?

If you were party to negotiations and you can insist they were completely fair and transparent and everything was done to prevent CR, well ill take back what I said but until then I remain dubious...

whatever helps everyone sleep at night though.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 19:10
  #67 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: London
Posts: 7
I knew he was 747, I didn't realise he was ex Cityflyer.

How many times have I heard this rubbish "BA were intent on making CR". Great, how macho did they look getting rid of the 249 most junior, vulnerable pilots. So, the BACC couldn't do anything about it? The same BACC that have just supposedly almost averted BA from attempting a return to LGW.

So, after the huge need to make CR, those CR recipients (recipients of £ zero) are on the verge of returning on a big pay cut. Who could have seen that coming?!

I saw an internal memo recently saying how the Chief Exec was determined to do the right thing by their staff. If only they had that attitude a year ago.
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Old 12th Oct 2021, 20:34
  #68 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Sussex
Posts: 5
Well said. Those 249 future pilots were treated appallingly to save those sitting comfortably waiting for a seat after 747 was dismantled. And keeping on those that had been in for 5 mins to what end? 787/350? The precious seniority working for whom?
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 04:58
  #69 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 371

You are under no obligation to return. You could reject the offer of a job at LGW and wait to see if one becomes available at LHR.

If it was not for the BACC's efforts, there would not be any opportunities for you at LGW - they would have been lost to BA pilots for ever.

If you don't want to go to LGW, there will be many who will be happy to take your place and many others who would do it for free. Count yourself lucky to have the option.
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 10:06
  #70 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Homeless
Posts: 4
Surely if PRP members had wished to work at Gatwick (easyjet's main base) for an easyjet salary, on airbus A320's, they would have joined easyjet? Or in the case for a good portion of the PRP, not left easy in the first place?

Otherwise, brilliant work from balpa, negitoating easyJet T&C to fly for BA, excellent deal, for the company at least...
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 17:42
  #71 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 203

I just hope those pilots who have no intention of returning to work can live with their decision.
Did not someone come off the 747, then got a 787 course and then did a handful of trips, then retired?
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 17:55
  #72 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 83
Yes, he did.
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 19:58
  #73 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here and there
Age: 47
Posts: 617
negitoating easyJet T&C to fly for BA, excellent deal, for the company at least...
I think you’ll find EasyJet t&c are a lot better than you think, hence why more and more turned down BA job offers as EasyJet was a better place to be.

thye didn’t make anyone redundant (only voluntary)
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 20:10
  #74 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: France
Posts: 194
except for half of the German workforce. But sure, none in the U.K. in return for PT for everyone.
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 21:53
  #75 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2021
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Posts: 4
somewhat proves my point, balpa offering PRP pilots less than easyjet T&C nice
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Old 13th Oct 2021, 22:41
  #76 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I'm pretty sure easyJet made a lot of pilots redundant in Germany.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 08:29
  #77 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 203

Thus denying a young pilot with his career ahead of him and eye watering debt, and no prospect of a job short term.
I know everyone's circumstances are different but you would like to thing that someone on pp24 which is £180,000+ plus a pension that we all dream about, would have thought it was now time to throw the towel in and give someone else a go.
Believe me this has caused a lot of anger amongst the new FO's in the company who knew a lot of the people who were let go.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 09:53
  #78 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,242
..and in the interests of fairness/completeness can I point out that a fair number in those circumstances did indeed throw the towel in…

Hopefully that at least avoided some CR.
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 11:35
  #79 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Just Around The Corner
Posts: 1,368

Is this related ?
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Old 14th Oct 2021, 11:52
  #80 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Runcorn,Cheshire,England
Posts: 123

I’m sure you understand that it’s BA offering the terms and conditions, and not Balpa? It’s not a great deal, granted, but do you think Balpa event to BA and said “hey let’s pay newco pilots £xxx”?
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