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Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences.

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Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences.

Old 5th Apr 2021, 14:17
  #121 (permalink)  
 
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According to the many, many pro brexit posts on the JB thread this is not true. WTO rules they shouted, We thrived outside the EU before we shall do so again, they said.

It's funny how its getting more and more difficult to find anyone that voted for brexit these days, A couple of years ago they were all standing outside Westminster waving great big union flags around.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 14:26
  #122 (permalink)  
 
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Turin,

Did they hurt your feelings or something?
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 14:32
  #123 (permalink)  
 
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No, they hurt the economy, my children and grand children's chance of a prosperous future and unrestricted travel opportunities within Europe. They hurt the NI Good Friday agreement and reintroduced the prospect of nightly news reports of sectarian death and destruction. They have hurt many things, but my feelings are nothing in comparison.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 15:08
  #124 (permalink)  
 
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Contact Approach

I think this entire thread is proof of the amount of people they ‘hurt’, and this is still within a relatively small group of people, and a very specific consequence of this supposed ‘will of the people’...

Perhaps a Petition ‘for the UK government to reconsider its relationship with EASA’ would be a slightly more humble wording, as opposed to demanding special treatment...

Last edited by bittersweetheart; 5th Apr 2021 at 17:20.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 17:29
  #125 (permalink)  
 
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I very much doubt the UK would reconsider under the current Gov, sadly. I can only see this getting worse before getting better.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 19:42
  #126 (permalink)  
 
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I completely agree with your assessment of the state of affairs. Being a casualty of it all, I just feel there is a bit of misdirected animosity in the discussion. BREXIT did not necessarily have to involve leaving EASA, Galileo and other EU agencies; Norway, Switzerland and others seem to be enjoying their Sovereignty just fine.

These ‘red lines’ seem well beyond anything the public had any direct say in from my perspective. It’s easy to vote on blanket statements printed on the side of a bus. I can only assume the fine print was posted on the underside of said vehicle...
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 19:47
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Yeah i agree and that’s why those who keep posting you voted for it so deal with it aren’t entirely correct.
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Old 5th Apr 2021, 20:29
  #128 (permalink)  
 
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Still in agreement. But subsequently some kind of introspection needed, in some cases, before blaming the EU/EASA/whathaveyou for the failure to deliver said message on the mentioned bus. ‘Perhaps’ the author over-promised on the benefits of being a non-member. At least in the case of EASA.

So once more. Perhaps the petition should be rephrased: To the UK Parliament and its
MP’s responsible for a hard exit from EASA membership and affiliation; On behalf of those affected who were quite content being a part of this inter-governmental European Agency and the associated Flight Crew Licensing benefits...

Sovereignty politics apart, we will still continue to be operating in the same geographical aerospace...
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 05:10
  #129 (permalink)  
 
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It’s ridiculous of course that both sides don’t recognize EASA licenses issued before 1-1-‘21 under grandfather rights regardless in which EASA country it was issued at the time. Pure bureaucracy and obstruction, serving no purpose.

Exams passed or licenses issued after Brexit not being accepted by both sides, as that was after the split, is fair enough I suppose.
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 07:33
  #130 (permalink)  
 
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Exactly that. I genuinely don’t see the argument as to why licences weren’t grandfathered? What purpose did it really serve? Would have probably saved the SOLI paperwork. I also don’t understand why being part of the EU is so vital as others have rightly pointed out the likes of Norway, Switzerland etc are still members of EASA but not part of the EU. I get that the UK would have to accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ but is that really so much of a big deal? It’s clear the UK Gov haven’t got the foggiest when it comes to aviation in any case so maybe that would have been a good thing!
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Old 6th Apr 2021, 18:04
  #131 (permalink)  
 
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Well... I am European living and working in the UK. I have EASA licence for the next two years still valid within the UK, but after that I will need a British licence. That Brexit is just a dream of great again britain by those pub visitors that flushed their brains in a daily pint of beer and absolutely no sense for the aviation community!
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 17:32
  #132 (permalink)  
 
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this is a major issue for UK pilots who did not transfer before 31st Dec, this also means that currently Ryanair cannot accept apps for the AFA B737 type rating programme, the solution for UK licence holders is to contact somebody who will do a quick transfer course, Diamond Aviation in Sweden are doing something.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 18:18
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Another solution would be for Ryanair to accept UK licences for UK based roles.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 18:23
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How would UK licences work for flying Irish-registered aircraft?
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 18:27
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“It has been our long-standing position that a UK airline with a significant presence in the UK, such as Ryanair UK does, should not rely heavily on using wet-leased, foreign-registered aircraft to undertake their operations. Doing so undermines the competitiveness of the UK aviation industry and the effectiveness of the regulatory regime.”
UK CAA

https://www.caa.co.uk/News/UK-Civil-...press-release/
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 18:56
  #136 (permalink)  
 
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There is nothing preventing EU airlines from basing EU-registered aircraft in the UK and operate UK-EU flights with those aircraft.

It would be extremely silly for any airline to move their fleet to G-reg, if large majority of their flights are UK-EU, as they'd lose the flexibility in not being able to operate inter-EU flights with those aircraft.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:03
  #137 (permalink)  
 
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There is nothing preventing the EU empowering EASA to issue licences to former UK EASA licence holders either.

I'm sure operating EASA registered aircraft with EASA-licenced UK-based crews is financially the best option for Ryanair shareholders, in the same way employing pilots via bogus self-employment schemes or not recognising unions was until the regulators and courts caught up. There may be nothing preventing them doing this now, but who knows in the future.

Maybe Ryanair can use their considerable lobbying power to encourage the reciprocation of licence transfer.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 19:51
  #138 (permalink)  
 
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vp89

Good for you, and thanks for your touching concern. The UK is being its usual accommodating self and allowing a generous leeway for EASA licence holders. Such a pity that the EU is not being "gentlemanly" by not providing a reciprocal leeway for UK licence holders. Certainly, grandfather rights should apply, since UK licences before Brexit were gained and awarded under EASA rules. Nothing has changed that.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 20:00
  #139 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ascoteer View Post
You realise British people were also "European pilots that were unable to transfer their license to any other EASA authority because they were working for a UK operator."
You realise there's no point of transfering to an EASA authority if one has no right to live and work in a member state.
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Old 7th Apr 2021, 20:07
  #140 (permalink)  
 
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Sick

Indeed. Just all of irish and british crews. But certainly not a huge problem at the moment. However, without technically being based in the UK, but rather seconded there on a temporary base, that might still be possible, after all, the TCA makes it very much clear that wet leasing from the EU into the UK remains possible, just not the other way round.
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