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Captain on a King Air 350 or First Officer on an A320

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Captain on a King Air 350 or First Officer on an A320

Old 8th Mar 2019, 17:22
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Think about your age, what you want in future and what lifestyle you wish to have.
Personally, I'd prefer the stability of the airlines, but many others prefer the thrill.
Airbus or Boeing, both great opportunities for longer term.
King Air, I'm not sure...
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 18:44
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Not sure how old you are or your background etc. Or what both packages offer. But I would 100% go for the airbus.

It gives you so many options down the road if you wanted to move to long haul and so much more security and flexibility as to where you want to live etc etc. Airbus ratings are like gold.

When I initially started out my flying training, I did not want a jet job and had dreams of becoming this amazing turbo prop pilot. In the end I gained my ATPL right at the start of a recession and the only job available was on a jet. But this has made me much more employable.

I genuinally feel like you have to look at longevity, sure airline flying is probably more boring than flying a King Air around, but I imagine the fun will fade after years of doing either. Not to mention the higher risk factor of flying single pilot. That aside, maybe Iím wrong but I feel an airline would generally be able to offer a better work/home life balance.
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Old 8th Mar 2019, 19:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Biggest regret of my life, not just my working life, was deciding not to self-fund a BAe 146 rating when I was offered a job subject to getting the rating.

At the time, I decided I'd go LHS on a B99 for a few more years in order to get the cash to pay for the rating and an eventual career on jets.

Result - I ended up spending the last 25 years of my flying life on a collection of very tired F27s and ATRs because it was too late to make the change by then.

Good Luck with what ever you decide....
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 03:10
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Skipname

Interesting thread as you can see by the response to your question.
Is it the Kingair 350 Captain or. Airbus 320 First Officer ?????

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Old 9th Mar 2019, 11:43
  #25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by FLCHG View Post
Skipname
Interesting thread as you can see by the response to your question.
Is it the Kingair 350 Captain or. Airbus 320 First Officer ?????
Thank you all for the great advice.

I haven't made a decision yet but after careful consideration of the pros and cons and taking into account your advice I am leaning towards the King Air job.

The reason for this choice is that I still have well over 30 years until retirement, maybe even 40 years depending on how quickly the retirement age increases and I would like to have some more fun flying while I can. The job itself is very interesting and I have some friends working there that have only great things to say about the company and how they are treated. Soon I will be going back for some negotiations on the contract and depending on the result of those negotiations I will make my decision.

The A320 job is nothing to be excited about except the fact that it is a shiny jet and within 4-5 years I could be a captain on it. It is with a low cost European carrier where I will be flying the maximum number of hours allowed per year and people have quite a few complaints about the company.

Neither jobs give me the chance to be based at home.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 03:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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The only King Air pilot I have come across in almost two decades of career was a former King Air check Captain that payed almost 50k on top of self funding his TR to a quite dodgy PTF 320 operator to fly on the right seat, and this was at the zenit of the good times for recruitment.

This should pretty much draw the picture for your future.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 07:30
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Take the Airbus job, get command, go part after a couple of years and fly a King Air as a freelancer.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 10:07
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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King air command hours will be pretty useless to move on.
low cos donít value this experience as they can get cadets to pay and do the job with no experience .

take the airbus, use some of the cash to rent an extra at the weekend if you want the ď thrill of flying ď
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 17:25
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Excuse my ignorant and off-topic question.
From what I understand from this thread is that King Air 350 hours (or anything similar) are useless when applying for jets.
On the other had I can see a lot ot topics here in PPRuNe stating that it's not right that people with zero hours, fresh out of CPL/ATPL schools are being offered right seats in "shiny new jets".
I think my question is following - what is "right way" to get to that A320 or B737 F/O position? Your non-jet hours are useless, yet going straight to the airline seems to be endangering the flying public.

I am sorry if I sound offensive, but I do not intend to. I just want to understand the logic behind that catch 22.

&
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 06:08
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Non-jet hours are not useless - in fact there are old crusties like myself who would prefer to employ pilots who had a couple of thousand hours of 'real' flying under their belts, as we recognise that there is no substitute for experience.
But we are not the ones who employ now. Recruitment is all in the hands of Beancounters, Human Remains and Shrinks.
Beancounters want pilots to self-fund type ratings and work long hours for little remuneration.
Human Remains want pilots to touch their forelock and show that they will do as bidded, without ever questioning authority.
Shrinks need to be convinced that the candidate possesses 'soft' skills like empathy, has faith in all beings and knows the value of a high five or fist bump after every landing.
Above all - and quite reasonably - airlines want the candidate to be trained THEIR way from day one, not come in with preconceived notions of how it should be done.
The longer someone flies single pilot in the likes of a King Air the better pilot he or she may become, but also habits and expectations will develop which may not be to an airline's liking or 'culture' .
Properly trained 200 hour cadets have shown that they can master modern jets to the extent required of a co-pilot.
Hence, you either make the move to airlines as soon as you can, or risk being shut out . There is nothing to be gained by becoming 'overqualified' and much to be lost by squandering potential seniority.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 07:01
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sholayo View Post
I am sorry if I sound offensive, but I do not intend to. I just want to understand the logic behind that catch 22.
No need to apologize, what you say is very true. In my previous post I talk about a real case of a former Kingair 350 check Captain that ended up paying a sick amount of money just to be given the chance of a RHS in a 320. Obviously paying was not of his liking. Putting aside ethics (should/should have not gone that way), the airline didn't value any of his former experience, mainly because there is a very long line of PTF kids waiting at the door.

I don't want to drift the thread away from the OP question: what is better career wise? I gave him a real life example of a case exactly like his. He needs to be informed before deciding.

Hats off for wanting to learn to fly properly early in his career though!
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 08:25
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Most of you seem to expect a KA350 a Single Pilot Job. Honestly, that problably wont be the Case. In almost all Operations in Europe, a KA is a Multicrew Job and the Relatively Rare KA 350 is for sure, at least in Europe.
Your Experience wont be recognized either and even in Business Aviation will preclude you from flying Jets.

Otherwise flying might be fun, or not, depending on OPs. If you fly private 1hr flights, between 5 known Destinations, than not. If you fly in a Commercial OPs all over Europe, then Yes.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 09:48
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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This is a 'heart or head' question. We mostly realise that in commercial flying lifestyle is the most precious factor the older you become, especially when wife/family issues compete for our attention and money. Having done everything from GA to Widebody long haul, I'm glad to have done the GA when I was young and SH when I had a young family and LH now I'm older. 3 days on a Caribbean layover beats 6 sector turboprop days when you are knocking 60!
So, heart says KingAir, head says a320. The overarching fact is that it is much easier to go back down the aviation feeding chain, than it is to go up it.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:16
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
This is a 'heart or head' question. We mostly realise that in commercial flying lifestyle is the most precious factor the older you become, especially when wife/family issues compete for our attention and money. Having done everything from GA to Widebody long haul, I'm glad to have done the GA when I was young and SH when I had a young family and LH now I'm older. 3 days on a Caribbean layover beats 6 sector turboprop days when you are knocking 60!
So, heart says KingAir, head says a320. The overarching fact is that it is much easier to go back down the aviation feeding chain, than it is to go up it.
Your last sentence may be theoretically true, but how many have you known that have actually gone that way rather than simply talk about it?

The bolded sentence maybe to your liking, but perhaps not to all of us. It may sound like a glamorous tv advert to a young single guy, but to me it sounds more like a pain in the proverbial. I’m 58 now, and haven’t flown since I had a stroke eight years ago, that has allowed me a lot of time to ponder this sort of thing. You forget to mention the likely deep night flight back from the Caribbean, at 58 I think that alone would balance out the positives! The hours between 11 and 7 are definitely not meant for flying when over the age of 40! (In my opinion). As you know, I’ve done my fair share of night flying around Europe in King Airs (National) and night Tenerife’s in Boeing’s (Britannia)as well as a taste of long haul, which inevitably means working round the clock.

I think the success or otherwise of this decision will depend a lot on the OPs nature.

Looking back, I can see that I was blinded by ambition, to get into the left seat of a jet asap, or any seat of a jet!! It wasn’t money that drove me, I don’t really know what it was, possibly ego? I now wish I had really slowed down to enjoy the journey more, rather than the end game, which turned out not to be all I hoped it might - did I really think about it? When I ‘eventually’ arrived, I had nowhere to go, I got bored!

The lowcost airlines have certainly changed things. Paying a lot of dough to get into the right seat of a 320 or 737, then the potential to earn enough back is possible if you are sensible. I wasn’t. I watched the young guys get their commands with 3000hrs or even less, where I had taken nearly 7k to get a direct entry command with Easy, coming as a FO from the charter world. It made me think, where now for these youngsters in their 20s?

I might be looking back through rose tinted glasses at things in some ways. I would say follow your heart rather than your head. It may mean you don’t end up with a great pension, or a Porsche as a second car. But I think you will remember more of the flying you do, and more of the people you meet along the way. You should be comfy enough with a BMW, and a modest detached house. I guess it can be summed up by asking if you would prefer dinking weak coffee that means the tin lasts longer or strong coffee that you enjoy and to hell with what happens when it runs out!

Then again, it’s a great feeling lining up, standing them up and pressing TOGA in a big jet!

Life is a gift, live for today. Anything might happen!

(Are you who I think you are, G?)
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 12:10
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


Your last sentence may be theoretically true, but how many have you known that have actually gone that way rather than simply talk about it?

The bolded sentence maybe to your liking, but perhaps not to all of us. It may sound like a glamorous tv advert to a young single guy, but to me it sounds more like a pain in the proverbial. Iím 58 now, and havenít flown since I had a stroke eight years ago, that has allowed me a lot of time to ponder this sort of thing. You forget to mention the likely deep night flight back from the Caribbean, at 58 I think that alone would balance out the positives! The hours between 11 and 7 are definitely not meant for flying when over the age of 40! (In my opinion). As you know, Iíve done my fair share of night flying around Europe in King Airs (National) and night Tenerifeís in Boeingís (Britannia)as well as a taste of long haul, which inevitably means working round the clock.

I think the success or otherwise of this decision will depend a lot on the OPs nature.

Looking back, I can see that I was blinded by ambition, to get into the left seat of a jet asap, or any seat of a jet!! It wasnít money that drove me, I donít really know what it was, possibly ego? I now wish I had really slowed down to enjoy the journey more, rather than the end game, which turned out not to be all I hoped it might - did I really think about it? When I Ďeventuallyí arrived, I had nowhere to go, I got bored!

The lowcost airlines have certainly changed things. Paying a lot of dough to get into the right seat of a 320 or 737, then the potential to earn enough back is possible if you are sensible. I wasnít. I watched the young guys get their commands with 3000hrs or even less, where I had taken nearly 7k to get a direct entry command with Easy, coming as a FO from the charter world. It made me think, where now for these youngsters in their 20s?

I might be looking back through rose tinted glasses at things in some ways. I would say follow your heart rather than your head. It may mean you donít end up with a great pension, or a Porsche as a second car. But I think you will remember more of the flying you do, and more of the people you meet along the way. You should be comfy enough with a BMW, and a modest detached house. I guess it can be summed up by asking if you would prefer dinking weak coffee that means the tin lasts longer or strong coffee that you enjoy and to hell with what happens when it runs out!

Then again, itís a great feeling lining up, standing them up and pressing TOGA in a big jet!

Life is a gift, live for today. Anything might happen!

(Are you who I think you are, G?)
I can't disagree with anything that either of us have stated. The advantage that we have, is the perspective which age and experience have taught us.
The standard career path is to get onto the jet, then get a command, then consider the options from that position. At that point personal attitudes to do with lifestyle vs income vs ambition can be addressed. If LH doesn't suit, plenty of SH jobs to choose from and vice versa. Training yes or no. Management yes or no. But you have to get to the position where choice is available in the first place. That is difficult to achieve from the left seat of a KingAir (IMHO). As it happens, I have known 3 people leave big carriers to return to Turbo prop flying. All for lifestyle reasons, and all were much happier to live on their reduced income.

The point you make about the young men and women who have joined the LoCo's at an early age and have had rapid advancement, is very pertinent. Anecdotally, I have heard of increasing levels of dis-satisfaction and burn-out amongst these people. It would be interesting to know if they are beginning to vote with their feet and what type of decisions they are making to improve their lifestyles. The point being, that as a 35 year old skipper of a European A320, you have more choices available than the equivalent KingAir pilot.

All the best!
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 12:38
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
I can't disagree with anything that either of us have stated. The advantage that we have, is the perspective which age and experience have taught us.
The standard career path is to get onto the jet, then get a command, then consider the options from that position. At that point personal attitudes to do with lifestyle vs income vs ambition can be addressed. If LH doesn't suit, plenty of SH jobs to choose from and vice versa. Training yes or no. Management yes or no. But you have to get to the position where choice is available in the first place. That is difficult to achieve from the left seat of a KingAir (IMHO). As it happens, I have known 3 people leave big carriers to return to Turbo prop flying. All for lifestyle reasons, and all were much happier to live on their reduced income.

The point you make about the young men and women who have joined the LoCo's at an early age and have had rapid advancement, is very pertinent. Anecdotally, I have heard of increasing levels of dis-satisfaction and burn-out amongst these people. It would be interesting to know if they are beginning to vote with their feet and what type of decisions they are making to improve their lifestyles. The point being, that as a 35 year old skipper of a European A320, you have more choices available than the equivalent KingAir pilot.

All the best!
Just shows how different our experiences can be. The closest I know of was a good pal that went from Emirates as a A330 trainer to Flybe as a Dash8 trainer, again for lifestyle.(And to get away from the constant heat!) Heís still there.

All good stuff. Thanks.

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Old 13th Mar 2019, 00:28
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by speedrestriction View Post
A bit like a child actor, it is easy to get type-cast in the LHS of a TP after a few years. The first few thousand hours in your logbook are good but after that they will not make you any more employable.

Take the hit hit now and within three or four years (depending on the operator) you will be earning the same as Kingair skipper but with still plenty of headroom for further pay rises in the LHS and/or training. Flying small TPs is in all likelihood more fun with more hand flying, more visual approaches etc but if you end up with one of the larger Locos you will still have the opportunity to fly to some challenging and rewarding destinations from Greek islands to Iceland and many points inbetween.
I'd say most 320 FO jobs in Europe are paying more than the average King Air skipper salary.
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