Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Respect, money or both?

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Respect, money or both?

Old 31st Dec 2018, 08:05
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SPAIN
Age: 38
Posts: 381
Respect, money or both?

Happy new year to everybody!. I would like to lunch one question just to see and analyze what is going on in Aviation nowadays.

What is more important for you guys, respect or money? it is not valid to say both.

for me 65% respect and 35% money. But I see constantly pilot that they don’t care respect are thinking in money. Even if the company treat them like sh... for the rest of their lifes, they just think in money. And I think this is the main problem why pilots social position is dropping everyday more and more.

you feel everyday since you cross the security of the airport, the taxi driver, the receptionist in the hotel...

Anyway I would really know your point of view and what do you think that it can makes improve our social position. Probably this pilot shortage? What do you think??

cheers
S.
samca is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 385
Hi samca

For me respct is also more important. In my previous job i was living in a golden cage: money was ok, social security was good but respect towards pilots (only pilots not other personel) was zero point zero. No respect for your private life, never any appreciation when you did something for the company, threatening all the time. NADA. Just because of that i decided to leave. Now, working for other company were you have much more respect but unfortunately also less money.

dboy is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:09
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Qwerty
Posts: 333
Life style.

Enough money to have a comfortable life style, enough time off to enjoy your life.
Council Van is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:15
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 393
Respect is long gone. Perceptions are important and while the pilots of the two largest locost airlines in the world (Ryanair and EasyJet) walk through airport terminals looking like high school kids in ill fitting uniforms and back packs, you’ll be lucky if things change. It sounds crass I know. But to overlook, this fails understand the importance of perception of the traveling public and those that control the purse strings.
Boeing 7E7 is online now  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:22
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NAT-HLA
Posts: 24
Respect is there with my current employer and money is okay(ish) as well.

The problem comes in when people exploit that respect (calling sick for the weekends, public holidays, football games, etc.), simply due to the fact that they live in a bubble/this is their first job(not knowing how it is out there)/union will take care of it.

All this, and nothing else imho makes the company struggle and letting go some of the best people i have ever worked with for the simple fact that they are contractors, not on local contract.

Sorry for the drift.
A321drvr is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 09:54
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 862
If we can’t choose both, why entitle your thread “respect, money or both”?
Johnny F@rt Pants is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:16
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: On a Flight Level
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Boeing 7E7 View Post
Respect is long gone. Perceptions are important and while the pilots of the two largest locost airlines in the world (Ryanair and EasyJet) walk through airport terminals looking like high school kids in ill fitting uniforms and back packs, you’ll be lucky if things change. It sounds crass I know. But to overlook, this fails understand the importance of perception of the traveling public and those that control the purse strings.
And maybe if we start by respecting one another outside of our individual airlines. My uinform fits fine, I don’t own a ‘BACK pack’ and I’m certainly not a high school kid!
Captain Spam Can is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:26
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the flare
Posts: 45
I overheard crewing speak to a member of cabin crew and I was shocked, it was bullying. For this reason, I don't agree we get zero respect because it can be worse!

Maybe time will prove me foolish, but I think I take and command respect when I adhere to rules and won't bend for the company with the assistance of BALPA. Providing I have respect for myself, respect for my role and respect for others... bring on the money first. Well paid jobs regularly command respect as a by product anyway.

I'm saying this whilst the company and union have been bitterly fighting for a while now and newsletters take a swipe at our efforts on a regular basis.
clamchowder is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:27
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 32
Money, Respect does not pay the bills! But that does not mean that we have to accept everything from a company we are working for.
USA1pilot is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 10:49
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 55
Posts: 830
Money!

Hi Samca
Long time no see! How are you doing?
"Money Money Money,,,,,Must be funny ,,,, In a rich mans World"
Quoting ABBA just after lunch firmly puts me in the geriatric end of the scale!
But I started of with great respect and small money.
And after over 30 years,no respect and ca 2,5 x average Industrial workers annual income,

I absolutely love my job, and I have found a cheap substitute for respect.
Power through use of common sense ( formerly part of airman-ship).
It is in my power to make my ship run safe efficient and on time.
The fact that Company and Pax generally do not respect me for that, does not bother me anymore.
I am good at what I do, a lot of people are not in jobs were they are happy and with a good self image!

If You have ever passed me in the terminal there is a chance You said to Your self:
" Dude, were did he park his Bomber!"

Take the Money and enjoy the Show.
Thanks for 2018
And a Prosperous New Year to all!
With Respect
Cpt B
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 11:57
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 694
Are you wanting Respect or Deference? If the latter, then that is pretty much gone in the western world unless you are part of the super-rich. The general public do have respect for pilots (and anyone else who does what is considered a difficult job). I think even airline management have a grudging respect for their pilots, but that is often vastly overshadowed by modern combative management techniques and the overwhelming desire to pare costs to the bone. We are tough and intelligent enough to deal with the first, but the incremental chipping away at t&c's is harder to bear, this is often expressed as being shown a lack of respect. So,I'd rather be on an industry average payscale with an employer who doesn't fret about Hotel and taxi costs so much, has sensible industrial relations with the union and keeps any promise that it makes.

If I had a Christmas wish, it would be to make aircrew's passage through security a less demeaning process. Particularly in the UK.
macdo is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 13:38
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SPAIN
Age: 38
Posts: 381
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
Hi Samca
Long time no see! How are you doing?
"Money Money Money,,,,,Must be funny ,,,, In a rich mans World"
Quoting ABBA just after lunch firmly puts me in the geriatric end of the scale!
But I started of with great respect and small money.
And after over 30 years,no respect and ca 2,5 x average Industrial workers annual income,

I absolutely love my job, and I have found a cheap substitute for respect.
Power through use of common sense ( formerly part of airman-ship).
It is in my power to make my ship run safe efficient and on time.
The fact that Company and Pax generally do not respect me for that, does not bother me anymore.
I am good at what I do, a lot of people are not in jobs were they are happy and with a good self image!

If You have ever passed me in the terminal there is a chance You said to Your self:
" Dude, were did he park his Bomber!"

Take the Money and enjoy the Show.
Thanks for 2018
And a Prosperous New Year to all!
With Respect
Cpt B
yesss again. I feel much better since I removed contaminant people out of my life 😁

Last edited by samca; 31st Dec 2018 at 13:57.
samca is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 15:03
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nearer home than before!
Posts: 428
My company treats me very well, pay is improving every year and gradually the SOPs also. I have absolutely no complaints. I know High Summer is going to be hard work, but I'm paid well enough, and know the low season is money for old rope in comparison. The only thing I don't like is being bombarded with Jess Glynne's lovely tune.....
RVF750 is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 18:12
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 393
Originally Posted by Captain Spam Can View Post


And maybe if we start by respecting one another outside of our individual airlines. My uinform fits fine, I don’t own a ‘BACK pack’ and I’m certainly not a high school kid!
Lol! This was not to be taken personally. But look around you when you are next at work and look how your pilot colleagues compare to those those in BA, TUI, Air France, KLM etc. And many of those pilots that looked like they’d been dragged through a hedge backwards while in EasyJet or Ryanair look pretty smart in their new uniforms!
Boeing 7E7 is online now  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 18:17
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SPAIN
Age: 38
Posts: 381
Guys do you think that in 2019 we will see any company bankrupt due to pilot shortage? And if so do you think that it would change the perspective and respect about Pilots?
I think is gonna happen and it will be a low cost.
samca is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 18:29
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 385
Tbh, i think the high peak of the recruitment and needs for pilots is over, moreover, it is already going down. The companies looking for pilots are now looking for rated people only, some cancelling courses etc. It is already a sign. If companies are going bankrupt, it will be because of economical reasons.
dboy is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 19:01
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 3,922
There is no pilot shortage. There is perhaps a shortage of the correct terms and conditions needed to attract people, especially those with experience, but even of those there are more than enough around.
Denti is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 19:36
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 55
Posts: 830
Denti

Indeed no shortage of licensed pilots, but the quality is dropping dramatically.
Maybe not in some medium companies that harvest the best from certain major LOCOs, but we see and hear a lot of weird stuff !
Some Frozen ATPLs will never thaw!
And Denti is there not a big section of retirement in just about every company and some expansion in Europe and North america
Never mind Asia.
Anyway
Happy landings
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 31st Dec 2018, 20:49
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Spain
Posts: 43
Sadly where there is a massive supply than the demand and a dream to fly - there will never be respect. One needs to respect themselves before they get respect.

Sadly as pilots we want the lifestyle and the money - where there is over supply and simply the role of the pilot requires many sacrifices and the rest similar to nurses - they do the grime and the hard work as they are passionate but no respect or money...... such is life


Only a few fortunate get it all - even then they will have something to moan

There is always plus and minus in life. Learn to enjoy life as a whole with all the ups and downs and don’t have expectations and you will find happiness

All the best to all
nightfright is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2019, 18:45
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 15
I see 'respect' at work as being treated decently and part of that is giving me a good lifestyle (I have to agree with Council Van that lifestyle comes first). After that, if the money is sufficient, that's good enough (and anywhere near two-and-a-half times the national average income has to be quite good; above that you are having so much 'filched' in tax that one has to question if it's worth it?).

At the moment I have an excellent lifestyle (every second week Off right through the summer is a winner and then there's leave on top of that!), I am well treated by friendly and approachable work-mates (and that includes management) and everyone coming near the aeroplane is an employee in some aspect of the industry so there is no 'image' to maintain and we all respect each others' roles in getting the job done. And where I do agree with aspects of what macdo said on the topic, even security when a 'queue' is about half a dozen of us having more time to be civil and chat increases that all-round respect.

The money? It's good and it pays the bills (maybe because I haven't pushed them too high through over-inflated expectations? -- but then, going to an airshow the other side of the world and doing some private flying in beautiful countryside there is probably an indication that the 'expectations' haven't been too low!).

It's the best job I've ever had. But then, maybe it doesn't have the 'image' that many on here might require.

So, to answer the question: Respect first (along the lines that I have 'defined' above and with any 'image' removed), then as long as the Money is sufficient (again, as I have defined above), the balance is perfect!
NoelEvans is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.