Brexit and Licensing Options
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They could have gone to EASA and hammered out an agreement to stay within the broarder confines of the EASA community. But no, they appear to have done nothing.
Putting political dogma above the best interests of the population, who'd have thought it...
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Actually they tried to do exactly that, and the EASA guys in Cologne were all set for it. But then Brussels intervened and told EASA they were not permitted to do that, and instead had to produce the paper referenced above with the no deal scenario.
Putting political dogma above the best interests of the population, who'd have thought it...
Putting political dogma above the best interests of the population, who'd have thought it...
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Well, seeing as I am currently banned from Rumours and News as a result of my rather pessimistic outlook (personally think its realistic but hey ho) of the future of the British economy post-Brexit, I don't disagree with you.
However, simple fact is that the CAA are going to have to regenerate regulatory capacity, even if that is to nod and agree with EASA and at least try to attempt to lobby and shape what is generated going forwards. Fat chance I know. I would have thought that this career path, particularly for those located around the South East, may be an interesting and rewarding career path where their knowledge would be put to great use, certainly once someone is experienced enough to get up with driving the tin can.
However, simple fact is that the CAA are going to have to regenerate regulatory capacity, even if that is to nod and agree with EASA and at least try to attempt to lobby and shape what is generated going forwards. Fat chance I know. I would have thought that this career path, particularly for those located around the South East, may be an interesting and rewarding career path where their knowledge would be put to great use, certainly once someone is experienced enough to get up with driving the tin can.
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Well, seeing as I am currently banned from Rumours and News as a result of my rather pessimistic outlook (personally think its realistic but hey ho) of the future of the British economy post-Brexit, I don't disagree with you.
However, simple fact is that the CAA are going to have to regenerate regulatory capacity, even if that is to nod and agree with EASA and at least try to attempt to lobby and shape what is generated going forwards. Fat chance I know. I would have thought that this career path, particularly for those located around the South East, may be an interesting and rewarding career path where their knowledge would be put to great use, certainly once someone is experienced enough to get up with driving the tin can.
However, simple fact is that the CAA are going to have to regenerate regulatory capacity, even if that is to nod and agree with EASA and at least try to attempt to lobby and shape what is generated going forwards. Fat chance I know. I would have thought that this career path, particularly for those located around the South East, may be an interesting and rewarding career path where their knowledge would be put to great use, certainly once someone is experienced enough to get up with driving the tin can.
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Hi
So you convert your UK license to another member state and then March 29th comes along and the UK are no no longer in EASA land.
I doubt this very much but do people think there will be any form.of grandfather rights in getting your UK license back, or a perhaps some form of a shortened course in getting license back.ie passing an Air Law exam.
DJ
So you convert your UK license to another member state and then March 29th comes along and the UK are no no longer in EASA land.
I doubt this very much but do people think there will be any form.of grandfather rights in getting your UK license back, or a perhaps some form of a shortened course in getting license back.ie passing an Air Law exam.
DJ
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There's no need to doubt it, it's what it says on the CAA website.
I quote:
I quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would I be able to continue operating EU-registered aircraft with a UK Part-FCL licence?
The European Commission has said that it would not recognise UK-issued Part-FCL licences.
To continue operating EU-registered aircraft, you may seek a licence validation from any EASA
Competent Authority, which would be valid for aircraft registered in any EASA Member State.
You cannot seek this until after the UK has formally withdrawn from the EU. We recommend that
you speak to the relevant NAA as soon as possible about the process for achieving a validation
of your UK issued Part-FCL licence.Alternatively, you may undertake a State of Licence Issue
transfer before 29 March 2019. This means transferring your licence from the UK to another
EASA member state.
When is the latest I could apply to transfer my licence to another EASA member state to get my
licence in time for 29 March 2019?
The CAA has no control over the issuance process of other EASA Member States, we therefore
recommend that you contact the proposed NAA directly on these matters.To enable the CAA time
to complete its part in the licence transfer process, the CAA advises that application forms from
the NAA need to be submitted to the CAA by January 1 2019. We will endeavour to transfer any
application received after this date, but the process may not be completed by 29 March 2019.
If I transfer my licence to another EASA member state can I be issued with a UK licence after
March 29, 2019?
Yes, this process is under review. Further advice will be added to this microsite when available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you google "CAA EU EXIT" you will find the CAA's website that sets out their plans for a
'no deal' Brexit.
Well down that page - in the section "CAA preparation for a non-negotiated EU exit' - buried
in the text is a link to a 'microsite' that contains the information quoted above, and a lot more
besides. It is not exactly prominent - presumably because the CAA doesn't really want to become
irrelevant, which is what will happen if all the licence holders transfer to other countries and all the
companies transfer to EASA. Also, the warning about applying by 1st January implies the CAA
is worried about being overwhelmed by applications for licence transfer.
Elsewhere on their website it also says that the UK will continue to accept European licences and
certificates as valid in the UK for at least 2 years.
Would I be able to continue operating EU-registered aircraft with a UK Part-FCL licence?
The European Commission has said that it would not recognise UK-issued Part-FCL licences.
To continue operating EU-registered aircraft, you may seek a licence validation from any EASA
Competent Authority, which would be valid for aircraft registered in any EASA Member State.
You cannot seek this until after the UK has formally withdrawn from the EU. We recommend that
you speak to the relevant NAA as soon as possible about the process for achieving a validation
of your UK issued Part-FCL licence.Alternatively, you may undertake a State of Licence Issue
transfer before 29 March 2019. This means transferring your licence from the UK to another
EASA member state.
When is the latest I could apply to transfer my licence to another EASA member state to get my
licence in time for 29 March 2019?
The CAA has no control over the issuance process of other EASA Member States, we therefore
recommend that you contact the proposed NAA directly on these matters.To enable the CAA time
to complete its part in the licence transfer process, the CAA advises that application forms from
the NAA need to be submitted to the CAA by January 1 2019. We will endeavour to transfer any
application received after this date, but the process may not be completed by 29 March 2019.
If I transfer my licence to another EASA member state can I be issued with a UK licence after
March 29, 2019?
Yes, this process is under review. Further advice will be added to this microsite when available.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you google "CAA EU EXIT" you will find the CAA's website that sets out their plans for a
'no deal' Brexit.
Well down that page - in the section "CAA preparation for a non-negotiated EU exit' - buried
in the text is a link to a 'microsite' that contains the information quoted above, and a lot more
besides. It is not exactly prominent - presumably because the CAA doesn't really want to become
irrelevant, which is what will happen if all the licence holders transfer to other countries and all the
companies transfer to EASA. Also, the warning about applying by 1st January implies the CAA
is worried about being overwhelmed by applications for licence transfer.
Elsewhere on their website it also says that the UK will continue to accept European licences and
certificates as valid in the UK for at least 2 years.
Last edited by W Smith; 1st Dec 2018 at 18:32. Reason: text out of window when displayed on forum
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Morning folks.
I do hold a CAA UK EASA license.
I suppose that on Brexit it might revert back to UK CAA only. I emailed the IAA and they have advised that they won't be able to change a National or JAR FCL licence from another state and that if I am not the holder of a EASA part FCL licence this will need to be changed to an EASA first. After Brexit the UK CAA won't be able to do that anymore!? I suppose. So not sure on what the process will be for converting a UK license to EASA after Brexit.
I understand that the UK continues to mirror EU aviation regulations for a two year period. That's starting from when exactly? March?
Also if I decide to convert my license after Brexit, will I need to re-sit the 14 subjects?
Wondering if EASA member states will accept UK licenses too for 2 years.
Thanks.
I do hold a CAA UK EASA license.
I suppose that on Brexit it might revert back to UK CAA only. I emailed the IAA and they have advised that they won't be able to change a National or JAR FCL licence from another state and that if I am not the holder of a EASA part FCL licence this will need to be changed to an EASA first. After Brexit the UK CAA won't be able to do that anymore!? I suppose. So not sure on what the process will be for converting a UK license to EASA after Brexit.
I understand that the UK continues to mirror EU aviation regulations for a two year period. That's starting from when exactly? March?
Also if I decide to convert my license after Brexit, will I need to re-sit the 14 subjects?
Elsewhere on their website it also says that the UK will continue to accept European licences and
certificates as valid in the UK for at least 2 years.
certificates as valid in the UK for at least 2 years.
Thanks.
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I'm a bit confused that you say you hold an EASA licence, but then talk about the IAA not accepting a JAR-FCL licence.
If you hold a licence with Part-FCL written on it, it is an EASA licence that the IAA or another State will replace with one of their own.
If you have a licence with JAR-FCL written on it the IAA won't convert it because of what the European Aircrew Regulation says:
----------------------------------
Article 4
Existing national pilots’ licences1. JAR-compliant licences issued or recognised by a Member State before 8 April 2012 shall be deemed to have been issued in accordance with this Regulation. Member States shall replace these licences with licences complying with the format laid down in Part-ARA by 8 April 2017 at the latest.
------------------------------So legally a JAR-FCL licence became a Part-FCL licence on 8th April 2012. As the CAA is funded entirely by the charges it makes to applicants for what it does, it applied a charge for replacing a JAR-FCL licence with a Part-FCL licence. This would have to happen on application by pilots or whenever any change was made to the licence (e.g. adding a rating or change of address) because the CAA couldn't issue or re-issue a JAR licence after April 2012, so I guess they expected all the licences would have been replaced within the 3 year period. I guess now a pilot with a JAR-FCL licence could argue that the CAA is legally required to give them a Part-FCL licence immediately in exchange for the JAR licence, because the EU Regulation says - "Member States shall replace these licences with licences complying with the format laid down in Part-ARA by 8 April 2017 at the latest".
Theresa May's deal includes being bound by the rules of the EU and it's institutions and agencies (including EASA) for the Brexit transition period. So if her deal gets through Parliament the CAA can carry on issuing Part-FCL licences for that period. If it's a "no deal" Brexit the UK drops out of EASA immediately. In that case all licences ever issued by the CAA, including Part-FCL licences, will become UK national licences that will not be valid to fly aircraft that are registered in other European countries. To continue to do that a UK licence holder will need a validation of the UK licence from another Member State - and then a licence conversion. For the conversion a CPL or ATPL holder will have to take all their exams again with another Member State.
The European Commission has published an open letter stating very clearly that all Part-FCL pilot licences issued by the UK CAA will lose their European privileges on Brexit day if it's no deal.
If you hold a licence with Part-FCL written on it, it is an EASA licence that the IAA or another State will replace with one of their own.
If you have a licence with JAR-FCL written on it the IAA won't convert it because of what the European Aircrew Regulation says:
----------------------------------
Article 4
Existing national pilots’ licences1. JAR-compliant licences issued or recognised by a Member State before 8 April 2012 shall be deemed to have been issued in accordance with this Regulation. Member States shall replace these licences with licences complying with the format laid down in Part-ARA by 8 April 2017 at the latest.
------------------------------So legally a JAR-FCL licence became a Part-FCL licence on 8th April 2012. As the CAA is funded entirely by the charges it makes to applicants for what it does, it applied a charge for replacing a JAR-FCL licence with a Part-FCL licence. This would have to happen on application by pilots or whenever any change was made to the licence (e.g. adding a rating or change of address) because the CAA couldn't issue or re-issue a JAR licence after April 2012, so I guess they expected all the licences would have been replaced within the 3 year period. I guess now a pilot with a JAR-FCL licence could argue that the CAA is legally required to give them a Part-FCL licence immediately in exchange for the JAR licence, because the EU Regulation says - "Member States shall replace these licences with licences complying with the format laid down in Part-ARA by 8 April 2017 at the latest".
Theresa May's deal includes being bound by the rules of the EU and it's institutions and agencies (including EASA) for the Brexit transition period. So if her deal gets through Parliament the CAA can carry on issuing Part-FCL licences for that period. If it's a "no deal" Brexit the UK drops out of EASA immediately. In that case all licences ever issued by the CAA, including Part-FCL licences, will become UK national licences that will not be valid to fly aircraft that are registered in other European countries. To continue to do that a UK licence holder will need a validation of the UK licence from another Member State - and then a licence conversion. For the conversion a CPL or ATPL holder will have to take all their exams again with another Member State.
The European Commission has published an open letter stating very clearly that all Part-FCL pilot licences issued by the UK CAA will lose their European privileges on Brexit day if it's no deal.
Wondering if EASA member states will accept UK licenses too for 2 years.
If the Prime Minister’s Withdrawal Agreement (WA) gets the nod hopefully and fingers crossed U.K. licence holders may benefit in some way from facets of that agreement during the Transition Period.
If OTOH the WA does not gain parliamentary approval and the U.K. goes out with “no deal” ( i.e. a non-negotiated exit) then according to the CAA website:
Planning assumptions for a non-negotiated exit
UK issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but will no longer be recognised by EASA for use on EASA Member State-registered aircraft.
UK issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but will no longer be recognised by EASA for use on EASA Member State-registered aircraft.
Last edited by wiggy; 26th Dec 2018 at 21:57. Reason: font colour fixed
