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Brexit and Licensing Options

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Brexit and Licensing Options

Old 24th Aug 2018, 11:49
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Originally Posted by fly4more View Post
Try applying for Virgin without a UK issued licence, you will not get past the first page of the online application.

There are too many dodgy operators and pilots using the perceived weakness of some authorities to obtain a Part FCL, then using this to obtain employment , say in the UK.
The CAA once prized itself on maintaining the highest of standards and maintaining them, now its hands are tied by europeanisation. We all know that an ATO in for example, Lithuania or Slovenia are a soft option route to a rating. And much cheaper than the UK.

For some reason, the German Airlines (and others) are still able to insist a pilot has fluent German to be employed , but in the UK, a pilot only needs to meet a min of Level 4 in English. Germany, for example, do not test or insist on a minimum level 4 in German, were such a thing to exist.You must be "fluent". Therefore , the process is hugely biased.
How about BA insist that a pilot must be fluent in English to be able to work there? Define fluent?

EASA has created misrepresentation and decidedly non level playing field.

I'm looking forward to post Brexit.
You are not well informed. You can do your training in Poland or any other country in Europe just to cut down on the training costs because flying there is less expensive due to lower fees and taxes, but you can still be tested under the UK CAA by a UK CAA approved examiner according to your beloved UK CAA standards and obtain a UK CAA issued license. In fact, I would say that 75% of the students of where I graduated are UK students with UK licenses. And Ryanair, Jet2, Thomas Cook, Loganair and Flybe hired lots of them.

About the language, easyJet and other UK operators require ICAO Level 6, which is not easy to get.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 05:39
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I guess this question doesn't apply if you work for the likes of BA and Virgin etc , but more aimed at UK Pilots who work for foreign companies likes me or indeed trainee UK Pilots.

If the UK is no longer a member state of EASA going forward is it worth having a UK license or is it best to convert now to a member state and continue with EASA.

In reality, how many jobs would there be for UK Pilots holding a UK license, I would imagine there would be more oportunities with EASA license.
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 20:24
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Honest question here --- If Brexit does happen in March next year, surely the clamp down will not happen on the 1st of April? I assume there will be a grace period wherein people can move their licenses about as needed for those who are working or for people to move their medicals or whatever paperwork (PPL?) for those who are training? It isn't going to be valid one day and void the next day, surely?
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 20:42
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Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot View Post
Honest question here --- If Brexit does happen in March next year, surely the clamp down will not happen on the 1st of April? I assume there will be a grace period wherein people can move their licenses about as needed for those who are working or for people to move their medicals or whatever paperwork (PPL?) for those who are training? It isn't going to be valid one day and void the next day, surely?
If there is not a deal then as of 23:00 uk time on 29 March 2019 then yes everything is invalid. It is an absolute cliff edge, guillotine, slammed door, whatever metaphor works for you.

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Old 28th Aug 2018, 22:04
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post
If there is not a deal then as of 23:00 uk time on 29 March 2019 then yes everything is invalid. It is an absolute cliff edge, guillotine, slammed door, whatever metaphor works for you.
Thanks! Can you point me to the rules that enforces this?
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 22:05
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Originally Posted by Nurse2Pilot View Post
Thanks! Can you point me to the rules that enforces this?
Here you go: https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites...ion-safety.pdf
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Old 28th Aug 2018, 22:12
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Thanks for that!
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 16:25
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The EU just blinked it could be just another tactic in negotiations from the totalitarian overlords.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 16:54
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Originally Posted by Moonraker One View Post
The EU just blinked it could be just another tactic in negotiations from the totalitarian overlords.
nope. full legal basis that was apparent in the regulation before the Brexit vote happened. not that it was discussed.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 17:49
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Denti: Now I am a bit confused! reading the third last paragraph where it says that to continue after the cutoff the UK would have to show compliance with the current EASA rules but that is exactly what it would be doing up to the departure date and nothing happens at midnight to change anything!!!!
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 17:58
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Originally Posted by Meikleour View Post
Denti: Now I am a bit confused! reading the third last paragraph where it says that to continue after the cutoff the UK would have to show compliance with the current EASA rules but that is exactly what it would be doing up to the departure date and nothing happens at midnight to change anything!!!!

which requires us to be subject to ECJ rulings modifying or adding to existing regulation. Without any form of vote or ability to lobby those changes.

Great plan that one! What reason will the EASA or the EU have to protect UK interests in passing future legislation? We wanted out, we got out, we not have to accept the consequences. Or have a peoples vote to reverse this nonsense.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 17:59
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Originally Posted by Meikleour View Post
Denti: Now I am a bit confused! reading the third last paragraph where it says that to continue after the cutoff the UK would have to show compliance with the current EASA rules but that is exactly what it would be doing up to the departure date and nothing happens at midnight to change anything!!!!
Thing is, the UK can diverge from EU rules, whether it chooses to do so or not is not relevant. If the UK enters into a deal with the EU that in effect makes it impossible for the UK to diverge from EU regulations that would make sure it stays compliant and therefore would stay within the EU regulatory framework. A deal would be needed for that, as otherwise, from the EU point of view, point (3) of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty makes it absolutely clear that all treaties of the UK with the EU will cease to exist. And therefore the UK is a third country and will be treated as such. And third countries cannot certify their personal based on EU regulation.

What many in the UK do not seem to grasp, including most of the government, is the simple fact that at the moment there is a simple legal process to be done: Following the rules of the EU for leaving the EU, which means negotiating the separation agreement, which is only a legal document, not a political statement, and has to stay completely within the current EU rule framework. Any future relationship, phase 2 of the negotiations, is a different thing completely, and will not be negotiated until march, or even the end of the extended transition period if there is a separation agreement. The EU treats it as what it sees it: a legal procedure. Nothing more, nothing less.

* 3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

Last edited by Denti; 29th Aug 2018 at 18:47.
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Old 29th Aug 2018, 22:57
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.
A colleague got the following reply from Dame Deidre Hutton, the head of the CAA. She says of the licencing confusion (these are quotes from the letter):

a. She understands that the industry requires clarity over the future if their licences, but she cannot give any.

b. She strongly advises stakeholders (p.c. office-speak for pilots and engineers) to make their own contingency arrangements.

c. She hopes to be able to give more information to stakeholders (pilots and engineers) in a few months time.

d. UK CAA licences are ICAO compliant and will remain valid internationally - on UK aicraft (only).

And if Britain crashes out of the EU and EASA...

e. UK licence holders will be able to apply to EASA states for a validation of their UK licence (to fly EASA aircraft - like all those Austrian registered Easy A320s). However, it will be up to that state to decide if it wants to issue a validation or not. ie - no guarantees, guys.

f. Aircrew can only hold one EASA licence (as we know). However, post Brexit you will be able to hold an EASA and a UK licence. But you cannot hold two licence before March 29th. (Which does not answer the question of whether you can keep a frozen UK ATPL, and then unfreeze it after March 29th.).

g. If you hold an EASA licence you will be able to apply for a 12 month UK validation. But each application will be dealt with individually. ie - no guarantees, guys.

In other words, some two years after the Brexit vote, the CAA has still not made any contingency plans. They could, for instance, have guaranteed UK validations of EASA licences for previous UK licence holders. They could have ensured that your UK licence will be held frozen, so it can be resurrected if necessary later. They could have gone to EASA and hammered out an agreement to stay within the broarder confines of the EASA community. But no, they appear to have done nothing.

As an aside, Dame Hutton’s previous experience was as an apartheid demonstrator, the Arts Council, a housing association, Future Farming, Food Safety, another Arts Council, the Dental Association, Consumer Council, Sustainable Development Commission, Environmental Protection and Thames Water. She was crowned the Quango Queen by the press. And with such a broad experience in technology and transport, you can see why the Labour party would see Dame Deirdre as the perfect candidate to control Britain’s aviation industry.....

ST

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Old 30th Aug 2018, 00:33
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I was about to convert my license and get a UK license. Reading this, I am so glad I kept my Polish license. This is such a big mess.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 07:03
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Will UK pilots be allowed to live and work in the EU after BREXIT?
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 08:08
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post
Will UK pilots be allowed to live and work in the EU after BREXIT?
No, Maybe, Yes.

Unless a deal is done then no UK pilots will not be allowed to live and work in the EU unless they qualify like any other third-country national. (I.e. a Canadian or Mexican or where-ever.) Some suggestions have been made that where UK citizens are already resident in a country, that country MAY allow them to remain under a fast-track residence but it is not guaranteed and the UK is refusing to issue guarantees to EU citizens and is not making it simple for EU citizens to regularise their position in the UK.

What is certain is that UK pilots will lose the right to live and work throughout the EU27 and move freely between them. The UK has absolutely committed to ending the "free" movement of workers, despite never applying the EU controls such as three month stays without employment.

Worst case scenario will be the UK being in the EASA environment like Switzerland. i would not worry too much
You do know what "worst case" means?
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 09:46
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Worst case scenario will be the UK being in the EASA environment like Switzerland.
Actually that would be the best outcome! The worse one would be no agreement leading to a crash out (going off a cliff if you prefer!) without a short/limited grace period after 29th March.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 09:57
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Originally Posted by bulldog89 View Post
Will UK pilots be allowed to live and work in the EU after BREXIT?
Can EASA registered aircraft be based in UK post BREXIT on the basis that the UK is no longer part of EASA?

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Old 30th Aug 2018, 10:10
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Originally Posted by Raski View Post


if you donít fly for an UK operator why should you do that.

In my personal opinion, regardless brexit outcomes, not much will change. Worst case scenario will be the UK being in the EASA environment like Switzerland.

i would not worry too much.
Because I had secured a FI job in Oxford a few months ago and being based in the UK a UK license was going to be a better option for the medium-long term. Then I got a better offer somewhere else in the continent.
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Old 30th Aug 2018, 11:04
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Originally Posted by DrJones View Post
Can EASA registered aircraft be based in UK post BREXIT on the basis that the UK is no longer part of EASA?

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I have no clue, but I don't think so...
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