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Advice from JET 2 pilots please

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Advice from JET 2 pilots please

Old 22nd Jul 2018, 11:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Home
Posts: 13
I don't know the chances of a BFS base, but I imagine they are quite small in either seat. However, the company are now quite good at getting people to where they want to be asap. This is true of initial starters and post command upgrades.

Rosters- variable and extremely unstable. There is a rostering protocol that crewing are supposed to abide by, but in all honesty it's not worth the paper it's written on. There's always a caveat that enables them to do anything to your roster if operationally required.
9 days off in the summer is all you will get, 10-11 in the winter.
There is a very basic roster bidding system but it's limitations will come as a shock to you coming from BA.

For the command upgrade as NTR plan on around 2 years. It's a very slow process, but they are trying to promote from within now more than in past years. The pass rate seems to fluctuate heavily between courses and therefore it is a risk for you, however I don't think someone with your experience would find it too difficult.

Sim stand-ins are common. As a mainland based pilot I've averaged 1 every two months, and in this company sim stand-ins are assessed as if they are your own check. So that's effectively a sim check every two months. These can, and often do come as late notice call outs from standby too. I'm hoping they will become less frequent when the current rate of expansion slows.

Morlae is not great at present. This summer has seen most people flying to the max with very high levels of roster disruption. I think this is due to a training backlog so will hopefully improve soon.

Hope that helps.
GA F15 is online now  
Old 22nd Jul 2018, 13:10
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by Chairmanofthebored.. View Post
Even though Iím technically senior enough for command in BA it could still be a couple of years before it actually happened just because itís a huge company and thatís how the system works
Out of interest can I ask what you mean by that? Do you mean youíd have got a ĎOK bidí out of the very recent annual bid but because of the way the training bid works youíll be well into next year before you actually started a course?

Good luck, whatever you end up deciding to do


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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 13:16
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
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Originally Posted by GA F15 View Post
There is a very basic roster bidding system but it's limitations will come as a shock to you coming from BA.
For the benefit of the general audience and at the risk of mischief making Iíd say, having just seen the fallout from the first dummy run of the system soon to be introduced at BA:

ĒThere will soon be a very basic roster bidding system but itís limitations will come as a shock to anyone coming to BAĒ
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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 17:31
  #24 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Belfast
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


Out of interest can I ask what you mean by that? Do you mean youíd have got a ĎOK bidí out of the very recent annual bid but because of the way the training bid works youíll be well into next year before you actually started a course?



Hi Wiggy, no I havenít got a bid in. I just said it that way as it was easier than explaining the whole BA annual bid system when my question was long winded enough. Reason I didnít bid this year is that if I stay at BA then LH is easier to commute to ( even though I donít love LH) . If I was pretty confident of leaving I might bid for SH command if it helped me move. Given I havenít made up my mind I didnít bid. When I said I was senior enough it was based on previous years lgw lhr commands, which as you know is never a guarantee of next year.

Based on the responses here itís unclear if it would be worth doing a SH command at Ba or not. I know a guy who left p2 long haul a few months ago to jet2 and heís starting a command at the end of summer. Although that was to a different base. Some guys here reckon it could be a lot longer. Iím open to the fact I will never know 100% so thereís always risk

in regards to bidding at BA youíre right. Things are changing and Iím not just comparing BA now to other airlines but considering what BA is turning into.

thanks to everyone who has chipped in , itís helpful to hear your opinions . Good and bad!


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Old 22nd Jul 2018, 21:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Atlanta
Age: 51
Posts: 381
No advice here, just feel the need to chime in:
I’m seriously surprised there’s people contemplating leaving BA for J2 (never mind actually doing it!). I’m Dutch, and flew if Europe from 99-05, ended up flying LoCo in the USA. Nobody leaves DAL/UAL/AAL to come to Spirit. Back then everyone in Europe wanted to get on with the flag carrier of their country. Can’t believe things have changed so much that people would leave a multi year career at BA and start over. I know commuting is a hit on QOL, I do it myself. Have working conditions deteriorated that much at BA?
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 06:20
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 8
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Get command, do the time, make it work, the world is your oyster.
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 08:25
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 1,218
If you're contemplating Jet2, you might consider FR at BFS?

Cue barrage of uninformed venom...
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 09:25
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 237
Also bear in mind that the goal posts in Jet2 are fitted with the best castors in the industry! IMHO.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 08:43
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
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Leaving the former national carrier is not as unusual as it once was. Unsurprisingly given the enthusiastic embracing of modern rostering practice and targeting the fabled 900 hours per year. I would say joining Jet2 would not be the worse move as long as pro’s and con’s were added up. They always tend to get you to the base of choice and historically that has not been long.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 14:01
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: FL380
Posts: 35
It is not even a close decision, do the SH command at BA and then come as a direct entry captain. Jet2 Captain in your local base is among the better jobs in the UK at the moment (albeit still significantly underpaid compared to competitors), the same cannot be said of life as an FO/SFO. Yes, you might get a command within 18 months, but you probably will not, it is not a reliable system and the 80% command pass rate quoted above is a company figure that does not hold up to any scrutiny. Reference: I work here.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 19:34
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
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Originally Posted by whitemonk View Post
It is not even a close decision, do the SH command at BA and then come as a direct entry captain. Jet2 Captain in your local base is among the better jobs in the UK at the moment (albeit still significantly underpaid compared to competitors), the same cannot be said of life as an FO/SFO. Yes, you might get a command within 18 months, but you probably will not, it is not a reliable system and the 80% command pass rate quoted above is a company figure that does not hold up to any scrutiny. Reference: I work here.
Yup, Iíd definitely support the idea of getting a command elsewhere before coming in as a DEC. The command process is definitely a beast to get through with more obstacles than a tough mudder. Once youíve finally made it through the command board, itís fairly plain sailing from then on. Itís the getting there thatís tough. Also, rumours abound that the next command courses arenít until Dec/Jan and DECs will be coming in before then. If thatís not a morale blow to a prospective command upgradee, I donít know what is! Also, the FOs I know are getting flogged this summer with a rolling total over 28 days in the 85-95 hour range. Over the years Iíve been at Jet2, the yearly average is steadily increasing.
Flying Wild is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2018, 12:05
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 881
The 80% command pass rate quoted above is a company figure that does not hold up to any scrutiny. Reference: I work here.
- 80% pass rate is about correct whether you work "here" or not - reference: I work here too

All you’ll be doing is joining the bottom of somebody else’s list
There isn't a list, you knuckle down, do a good job and you get your chance.

Jet2 love DEC’s so you run the risk of becoming seriously miffed if they keep flooding in while you’re waiting.
Jet2 love their internal upgrades more, internal candidates are prioritised over external DEC's.

If you're contemplating Jet2, you might consider FR at BFS?
Doesn't even warrant a sensible answer
Johnny F@rt Pants is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2018, 19:30
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Out of a bag
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Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
-

Jet2 love their internal upgrades more, internal candidates are prioritised over external DEC's.
If that is the case, please explain why the first command course this winter isnít until December whereas last year they were running from September. Strong rumours floating around that there are DEC courses running prior to Dec.
Flying Wild is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2018, 08:57
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The middle
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The early DEC courses are probably non-type rated, as they will (probably) take longer to get all the way through to completion of line training than type rated f/oís who are just changing seat. The plan will presumably be worked out to avoid having too many people finishing line training and sitting around not flying whilst most of the winter flying program is used to line train others.... sensible order (probably) would be non type rated DEC and F/O, then type rated upgrades and type rated DEC and F/O. Just a guess.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 13:20
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
Posts: 881
Flying Wild
If that is the case, please explain why the first command course this winter isnít until December whereas last year they were running from September. Strong rumours floating around that there are DEC courses running prior to Dec.
I have no idea, but rather than talking about rumours in public, why don't you just speak to somebody who will know, your Pilot Base Manager would be a good start, or there are several people at LFFH who would be happy to tell you. They don't bite, just ask.

JHseventree
What percentage make it through the assessment?
- Last I heard the rate was, as I have already mentioned, just a tad over 80%. That is the %age of those starting the command upgrade course to getting their command. The ones that don't get it then have a development plan created to help them to achieve the standard required.
Johnny F@rt Pants is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2018, 18:08
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
Flying Wild I have no idea, but rather than talking about rumours in public...
Professional Pilots Rumour Network

Originally Posted by Johnny [email protected] Pants View Post
...why don't you just speak to somebody who will know, your Pilot Base Manager would be a good start, or there are several people at LFFH who would be happy to tell you. They don't bite, just ask.
The question has been asked of several different people and PBM knows as much as I do. You know as well as I that HQ plays their cards close to their chest. Rumours don't help matters, so it would be nice for some truth to come out for once.
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Old 27th Jul 2018, 22:11
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 707
Has the OP thought about the effects of going to J2 on his/her pension? Even though its probably quite a few years away if the pension is significantly better at BA, then those extra years post age 55 slogging up and down to the Eastern Med might give cause for regret.
For what it's worth, IMHO, if you ever want to move between airlines it's better to do it as a Captain.
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 12:10
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cloud Cuckoo
Posts: 61
Hi Jet2 Captains...whatís your average take home pay in winter compared to summer? How many days would you fly on average in winter?
what are the chances of East Midlands base or BHX? Thanks in advance
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Old 28th Jul 2018, 15:32
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,601
No clue about Jet2 but been around long enough to say this - Donít leave a ďguaranteedĒ command with BA for right seat with command assessment to go through in new company. Never do that.

CP
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Old 29th Jul 2018, 11:55
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Cagliari
Posts: 3
Originally Posted by ATC83 View Post
Hi Jet2 Captains...whatís your average take home pay in winter compared to summer? How many days would you fly on average in winter?
what are the chances of East Midlands base or BHX? Thanks in advance
Take home pay in summer is averaging £6000 with 10-12 days of flying @80-ish hours (and an additional 10 standby/reserve).
Winter is about £5400 with 4 or 5 days of flying @ 30-ish hours (and about 15 standby/reserve).
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