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Primera Air A320neo

Old 22nd Dec 2017, 22:45
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 226
I am advised we will be operating a 'W' pattern.
Will it be the "standard" roster arrangement? And you'll get always 7 days off?

If so, thats great for commuting

By the way, which bases are available?
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 16:33
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,647
I doubt you’ll get to do 3 x 9-10 hour duties in 6 days and then have 7 days off. I’m guessing they’ll have you do those 6 duty days, then give you 2 days off before you are back on the road again.
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 17:19
  #23 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Whilst this is a primarily LH operation, you cannot work too hard.

STN-EWR-STN is basically 15+ hours and 3 days work.

Lets assume 5 EWR/BOS pm = 75-78 hours (O/T paid after 50 hours)

and 15 days work

There are some short haul flights (very sensibly upping the daily utilisation) out of BHX and STN, add a few of those and we get 18 days work, and 40 hours O/T @ 90 hour =3600 and 12 days off pm.

Whilst not perfect, it is pretty good.
future G-V driver is offline  
Old 23rd Dec 2017, 21:29
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eu
Posts: 910
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what Primera is. A quick google search should reveal all. They will temporarily benefit from a few ex-Monarch guys who are willing to take a massive pay cut to stay at BHX but in time they'll grow weary and drift away, assuming Primera doesn't melt down first.
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Old 23rd Dec 2017, 22:15
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 1
I’m ex Monarch and I’ve accepted a job offer because I have bills to pay and a roof to keep over my head. I know of a few of my former Birmingham and Luton colleagues who are also joining. Yes there was no sim but neither was there one at WOW and a few ex Mon guys/gals are already there. Red eyes will make a change from getting up at 0300 to do run of killer earlies!

I have no idea if it’s going to work out but prepared to give it a go if it keeps me closer to home.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 08:46
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LGW
Posts: 162
During the interview they said that the roster would look like this:

MON STN-EWR
TUE. EWR-CDG
WED R/D
THU CDG-EWR
FRI. EWR-STN
Arriving back in STN on SAT at 10am.

Than you have Sunday off and Monday afternoon you start again. This repeats itself over your three weeks on and at the end you have 7 days off. They were planning on doing 4 Atlantic crossings a week and 12 in your 3 week on block.

Personally I have declined their offer as 3 days at home in three weeks is just not enough. Especially after a week of night duties.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 11:29
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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4 Atlantic crossings in 5 or 6 days is tough, not to mention you'll be doing it for 3 weeks with 48 hours break...
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 11:37
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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If they manage to "survive" for 1 or 2 years...
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 11:49
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UK
Age: 40
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The roster looks knackering and is not sustainable. If management don’t work that out, anyone who joins will do a year then leave! Let’s hope as a new longhaul start up they learn quickly otherwise the project will not last.

Where does any planned standby fit in to the roster?

Last edited by KyleRB; 24th Dec 2017 at 15:00.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 17:00
  #30 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Aug 2004
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Some of these projections do not add up. 12 NAT pm equals approx 95 hours pm, or 1056 hours in 11 months (1 months Leave) plus who will fly the SH operation ? also the Contract states O/T after 50 hours, so 95 hours = 45 hours O/T = 4,000 for a Captain, plus Trainers will be paid 135 per Sector = 1620 plus 200 per Sim Session (also attracts O/T I am advised)

However nobody wants to fly 6 or 7 return NAT's in 31 day Roster............ regardless of the O/T

I think it much more likely, if crewed adequately, a normal Roster will be 5 NAT plus a couple of SH sectors plus STBY

But be aware of only 60% Pay during Training, until Line Checked, first a/c arrives 20th March, L/T starts early April, so anyone on an early course might be on 60% salary for 3-4 months.

There are better Gigs out there, Primera need to up their game right now, before people don't even bother turning up on the Course....... there are far far better jobs out there.
future G-V driver is offline  
Old 24th Dec 2017, 18:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LGW
Posts: 162
Shorthaul out of BHX will also be on a B737. During the interview there was no mention of any shorthaul to be operated by the Airbus. However that does not mean that it will never happen.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 18:15
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,647
These rosters and rotations are unsustainable.

Good luck to those who decided to try it out.
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 19:15
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 136
It sounds like it hasn’t really been thought out properly (unless there’s a plan we are not aware of). I’m guessing once it all starts they’ll be trying out a few different options to make the FTLs work and also crew utilisation. Suspect they will push the crews as far as possible until they vote with their feet. Let’s hope T&Cs improve when push comes to shove. The Monarch guys who are taking this job will get their sampling of longhaul and then scoot off to pastures new when it all becomes a bit too much! Good luck indeed!
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Old 24th Dec 2017, 21:29
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Al tube.
Posts: 430
Being ex ZB 320/(330) I can’t say this roster appeals at all. When you look at the fatigue side long term wise this pattern as described above does not look sustainable.
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 13:29
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,635
I agree with fGVd. The roster does not add up. I just pulled down the schedule from the website and plotted it in Excel. They need to offer 3 additional days off per month to make this a 900 hour per year gig (on top of annual leave). However I suspect they will convert some of the duties at home and down route into standbys thereby not impacting your annual limit but still screwing you over for time at home (if the standby is down route) B
Smooth - you a wannbee rosterer or Pilot?
Airlines need standby's yes I know Pilots don't like them particularly if commuting so my answer is;
1/ Live in STN
2/ Don't join
Mr Angry from Purley is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 13:32
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,635
On the other hand, if he's right and the Airbus are going to be sitting around doing nothing during the day then it makes sense for them to change the flight times completely in order to avoid so much night flying. Depart at noon instead.
Smooth again - are you now a wannabee Commercial Manager rather than a rosterer come Pilot?
Ever heard of something called a slot? STN problematical. EWR Difficult, CDG no idea.
If you want to depart at noon suggest you need a different career it's a start up not a holiday camp
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 14:38
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: London
Posts: 560
Well said Mr Angry!

Monarch was a good airline with decent T&Cs but this is the brave new world and some of my former colleagues need to realise this and stop offering advice based on the good old days! Primera is a start up with lots of things to iron out. I’m sure they are serious about making it a success! If you don’t like the set up don’t join! The Airbus CP recently joined from WOW so he’s learning too so at least cut him some slack!

I have 2 offers on the table but one is for fast track command on a turboprop and the other one is Primera! The flying could be interesting but issues need to be resolved! I want to stay on the Bus if I can.

Last edited by Crosswind Limits; 25th Dec 2017 at 15:02.
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Old 25th Dec 2017, 16:47
  #38 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 75
FTL's

Thanks for your efforts SA.

The closer I look at this, the more I think what might be much better is.

2 x back to back NAT = 6 days work and approx 30 hours flying, then 4 days off.

Next day on STBY, followed by 2 x back to back NAT = 6 days work and approx 30 hours flying, then 4 days off.

Next day on STBY, followed by 2 x back to back NAT = 6 days work and approx 30 hours flying, then 4 days off.

Approx 31/32 days and 90 hours flying (40 hours O/T) 12 Sectors.

Take time out for Recurrent Training, SEP, etc etc and you will just about hit 900 hours. However which ever way you look at this, it IS HARD WORK.

MCO, ORD etc planned for the 321neo LR, pushing up the Sector length and annual hours flown.

Note also, all flights arriving in the USA/Canada arrive too late for a beer and burger, which rather spoils the whole experience

This might or might not be an easier existence than EZJ, less sectors, but much more jet lag...........

The T&C are far less than EZJ.
future G-V driver is offline  
Old 25th Dec 2017, 22:23
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Eu
Posts: 910
Primera is not a start up..it has been exploiting pay to fly for a while now in Europe. Its UK bases are the only ground breaker. MON did not fail because their crews were paid fairly. They were paid roughly in comparison with EZY. Easyjet can make barrels of cash and still pay their crews a decent wage so what's Primera's excuse? If your business model revolves around paying your staff buttons you don't deserve to succeed.
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Old 26th Dec 2017, 21:41
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Around the world
Posts: 17
I don't think the a320 NEO can perform these mentioned transatlantic flights with a decent payload. I guess they are counting with the a321 neo LR, wich first unities will be delivered only in 2019...
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