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Air Berlin filing for bankruptcy?

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Air Berlin filing for bankruptcy?

Old 15th Oct 2017, 11:33
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
Niki Lauda in todays Welt am Sonntag. Basically the German Sunday Times.
He gladly sold ailing LaudaAir to the Austrian government in 2000.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...g-airline.html
AUA-Verkauf besiegelt: Kranich soll Flügel verleihen « DiePresse.com

Last edited by Machrihanish; 15th Oct 2017 at 11:56.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 11:43
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
Lufthansa are 34% government owned ...
Time to destroy some pages of your manual. Cave: this time around, the right ones...
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:15
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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How about we all stick to original theme of this thread : Air Berlin filing for bancruptcy ??
Fact is Air Berlin went bancrupt afer all these many years of losses.
Fact is the German Government took its responsibilities for its Citizens - AB Passenger - serious and enabled a well coordinated repatriation for those abroad.
Fact is the KFW credit of 150 mio Euro will be payed back from the payment of 220 mio Euro LH layed on the table for "aircraft".
So very different from that Monarch case no tax money wasted.
I tend to bet that in a month or two no "better knowing" and even more the public will waste a word on the case.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 12:22
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
Germany’s transport ministry already faces allegations by the European Commission ...
About time.

Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
The truth ...
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 14:43
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
That's an interesting article on the monopoly situation. Some quotes:
  • "The German cartel office said it expected the European Commission to take a close look at the deal."
  • "Ryanair (RYA.I) CEO Michael O‘Leary has called it a “stitch-up”, saying it would give Lufthansa a 95 percent share of the German domestic market."
  • "Lufthansa has said it has a market share of 34 percent on routes to and from Germany, while Air Berlin had 14 percent. With the takeover of parts of Air Berlin that will remain below 48 percent, which Lufthansa says is equivalent to Ryanair’s market share in Ireland."
Ryanair was operating Berlin-Cologne, but with the recent spate of cancellations, that one got cancelled. Maybe German domestic flights aren't all that profitable? There's the high-speed rail system, the fact that the central airports Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich are at capacity, that anyone who has slots there (including Ryanair) can more profitably use them to operate international flights (European or intercontionental), and that with the cost development in air travel, many smaller airlines and regional carriers have not been able to operate profitably (obvious examples would be Niki Lauda selling Niki, and Air Berlin going bust). So the options for domestic air travel seem to be either a) Lufthansa doing most of the flights, b) nobody doing them, or c) tickets getting a lot more expensive, which would allow for competition to be profitable again, but creates the situation that competition is meant to avoid.

I think it's much ado about nothing.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 16:18
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
I wonder how PPRuNe would have responded if monarch had been given a government loan and then the public informed that a committee would deal with the sale to the highest bidder. On the committee would be british airways and british airways end up buying all the good bits at a very good price...
So BCal was an orderly shut down.

As was BeeMed.

As was Midland.

Thank heavens.

Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
Michael O'Leary has judged the air berlin situation correctly. This is not about an orderly shut down ...
... making dearly needy Qatar happy with ATOL money.
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Old 15th Oct 2017, 16:28
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Musician View Post
... There's the high-speed rail system, ...
... which, as a system, is bleeding time and again at tax payers' expense.

So the expectable boost in rail fares will free up tax money for infrastructure refurbishing, which seems a better investment than domestic flight from no less packed airports at giveaway fares.

But, yeah, ol' Eary has been wanting Air Berlin so badly for so many years now.

Last edited by Machrihanish; 15th Oct 2017 at 17:28.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 09:33
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Time and again we have seen that in relatively low populated countries two or more airlines are financially unsustainable.

Only in the US, with its significant market size, do we see a plurality of (relatively) successful airlines

In an industry with a $10 per passenger profit, in good years, this shouln’t be a surprise.

If you want to make a small fortune in this business, you need to start with a large one.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 09:40
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Funny to watch this supposedly professional pilots network, where pilots are screaming for more competition.
When has competition ever done anything good for T & C's in Your profession gentlemen?
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 10:02
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BCAR Section L View Post
lets see if the EU will be fussy about rules /regs/laws when a gain can be made?
It's not been in a long time.

Heck, from the German side, Air Berlin was meant to be a German Virgin or easyjet, but they never found the people to do it. Deutsche Bank was a driving force in the glueing together of smaller German airlines, one of which former British Airways'-IGS-successor Deutsche BA a.k.a. flydba, and IPOing that vehicle. The masters of da universe had spoken, which led former chairman of the LH supervisory board Weber to eliminate Deutsche Bank's seat in said board.

Now the modu's taxi drivers have spoken.
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 10:46
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by heavydane View Post
Funny to watch this supposedly professional pilots network, where pilots are screaming for more competition.
When has competition ever done anything good for T & C's in Your profession gentlemen?
You nailed it....
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 18:19
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Last longhaul flight landing in DUS with a special pilot feat..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N78rajMN0Mo

as seen from ATC https://m.facebook.com/thomas.einwag...02720496416451
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Old 16th Oct 2017, 22:19
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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And yet more....

https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/...6-704bed9a4929
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Old 17th Oct 2017, 00:05
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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I am really surprised by this development. Unless they manage to impose drastically lower T&C (unlikely) I don't see the business case.
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 15:34
  #155 (permalink)  
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-5ZvTgc3F4
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 16:35
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Pilots never learn you have to assume AB were not aware
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 16:40
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Passengers on board? Not acceptable, no matter what imho.
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 16:54
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Investigation?

You must be joking?

A little roll back and forth? What is the problem?

Live a little!

What has aviation downgraded to?

Last edited by stator vane; 18th Oct 2017 at 17:01. Reason: addition
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 17:00
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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If they're trowing in the towel after this what would they care...
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Old 18th Oct 2017, 17:12
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Pax are paying for a safe flight from A to B, not unwilling participants in a flyby. These guys should be hang, drawn and quartered. Don’t bother applying for a job at my Airline either, we don’t want you.
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