Command upgrades at Jet2
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Just to clear something up because going by some comments there seems to be a bit of confusion regarding the bonding process...
The 7.5k bond is for rated guys, disappears after 12 months i believe but I am not certain on that as I joined non rated. This is simply to stop guys joining and then leaving immediately which I feel is fair enough, if you stay for the period in question you don't ever worry about it and it hasn't seemed to put off any of the many ex RYR guys here now.
For non-rated, (on the 75 anyway), it is a 19.5k bond over three years, that reduces pro rata from one year post Final Line check, in effect reduces by nothing for the first 12 months, then disappears over the next 24 months.
So if your rated or non rated if you join the airline pays for the training, it only becomes an issue if you suddenly decide to leave.
You will only suddenly decide (disclaimer!!!! in my opinion!) to leave if you come here as a low houred guy who suddenly realises you will only be flying 500hrs a year at best and that is not what you want, or if you don't like free time....
Hope that clears things up, best get back to my winter off!
The 7.5k bond is for rated guys, disappears after 12 months i believe but I am not certain on that as I joined non rated. This is simply to stop guys joining and then leaving immediately which I feel is fair enough, if you stay for the period in question you don't ever worry about it and it hasn't seemed to put off any of the many ex RYR guys here now.
For non-rated, (on the 75 anyway), it is a 19.5k bond over three years, that reduces pro rata from one year post Final Line check, in effect reduces by nothing for the first 12 months, then disappears over the next 24 months.
So if your rated or non rated if you join the airline pays for the training, it only becomes an issue if you suddenly decide to leave.
You will only suddenly decide (disclaimer!!!! in my opinion!) to leave if you come here as a low houred guy who suddenly realises you will only be flying 500hrs a year at best and that is not what you want, or if you don't like free time....
Hope that clears things up, best get back to my winter off!
Join Date: May 2006
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Alas there are also plenty of people who have chosen to leave Jet2 who have significant flying experience. This is due to the poor terms and conditions, and the stubborn, backward and tightfisted nature of the establishment there. My experience was that it was not a pleasant place to work, in direct comparison to other airlines. Their inability to listen or look after the workforce being the main issue. And the endemic hatred of all professional bodies including BALPA, for no apparent reason! It does not cost anything to simply LISTEN!?
The command process is peculiar. I witnessed a few command simulator sessions as an 'ill-equipped' stand in FO on numerous occasions and felt utter compassion for those being assessed in the left seat. I was specifically briefed to not offer any opinion and not to work together with the command candidate. Madness in my humble opinion. CRM was poor at Jet2 anyway, and this type of assessment went no way to improve it. And truly embarrassing and awkward to watch one of your own colleagues struggle and get caught in a purposeful trap, when working together would have solved the problem in the way it is meant to be solved in a multicrew aircraft.
So CRM in the flightdeck and ability to work together as a true crew could not be assessed for the command candidate. They were overloaded and made to work as single crew for their check. A real military mentality that was completely out of place in the safe world of the MULTIcrew airline. It was a truely backward process that made me feel somewhat shocked to be a part of. Especially when I was able to compare it to a really sensible command process that I encountered at a previous airline.
I still maintain that First Officer training and task management between Captains and FOs is poor at Jet2. There is little or no encouragement for FOs to run a sector, be it in the sim or on the line which is a huge shame and impacts of development.
The training was adequate but below par compared to my previous company.
And before you move please contemplate the following:
No rostering or scheduling agreement
Roster instability. A secret policy to make changes to your roster without informing you until a few days before hand. They still will not tell pilots or cabin crew that they are going to be called out for an early standby duty the night before by publishing it on the crew roster system... Stating EASA regs and maintaining flexibility! Thank goodness none of the other UK airlines have adopted this pathetic policy, and we can be prepared for standby call out the night before.
No healthcare provision. It is NHS waiting lists for you while you are grounded
No staff travel
No crew food (might seem daft but what happens when you are called to fly to TFS towards the end of an airport standby duty and you need three more meals with you). No company credit card here my friends to nip into the terminal with as would be absolutely normal at other airlines).
No disruption pay, no flexible working pay, no thank you.
Poor pension (different company contribution percentage for FO/SFO and Capt for no apparent reason, other than FOs are treated badly!)
No professional body representation (no recognition of an organisation actively supporting your industry and safety across it!)
They do not even pay for your rating on your licence!
It is a poor package for a firm that made £100 million profit, even if you only fly 600hrs a year!
Anything else lacking that I have missed!?
It is truely one of the most unhappy environments I have ever worked in, where staff morale is low. Cabin crew are treated poorly too. Some are being changed from senior to junior constantly to save a few bobb, winter coats not provided with some crew told to buy their own, temp contracts galore, and they even loose around £100 of their wage (a monthly bonus!) for calling in sick. If the trolleys are down on stock, then wages are docked! Despicable practice that is not normal, but there is no one for them them to turn to collectively to view their issues. Cabin tidy payments!? What cabin tidy payments!
The firm I now work for is similar to one I worked for before Jet2! It is not perfect but in contrast provides a lovely place to work, real benefits, a flexible and understanding crewing department, professional body recognition, staff travel galore with free concessions, decent loss of licence that you do not have to add to, great profit share scheme, share save scheme, and the newbies were welcomed on day one with open arms!! Feedback is absolutely encouraged and cabin crew / pilot interaction is spot on! CRM is normal, FOs are encouraged to develop! Such a lovely change of scenery to Jet2 and a true 'professional' airline environment within which to work again and re-establish a career. Command might be a little further away but it is a joy to work here doing the same job as at Jet2 but feeling more appreciated, looked after and treated properly as a professional, and given the opportunity to develop skills!
I would encourage anyone approaching command at Jet2 to think about moving on and see what a proper airline has to offer! It could do wonders for your morale and for your career! Green grass!
The command process is peculiar. I witnessed a few command simulator sessions as an 'ill-equipped' stand in FO on numerous occasions and felt utter compassion for those being assessed in the left seat. I was specifically briefed to not offer any opinion and not to work together with the command candidate. Madness in my humble opinion. CRM was poor at Jet2 anyway, and this type of assessment went no way to improve it. And truly embarrassing and awkward to watch one of your own colleagues struggle and get caught in a purposeful trap, when working together would have solved the problem in the way it is meant to be solved in a multicrew aircraft.
So CRM in the flightdeck and ability to work together as a true crew could not be assessed for the command candidate. They were overloaded and made to work as single crew for their check. A real military mentality that was completely out of place in the safe world of the MULTIcrew airline. It was a truely backward process that made me feel somewhat shocked to be a part of. Especially when I was able to compare it to a really sensible command process that I encountered at a previous airline.
I still maintain that First Officer training and task management between Captains and FOs is poor at Jet2. There is little or no encouragement for FOs to run a sector, be it in the sim or on the line which is a huge shame and impacts of development.
The training was adequate but below par compared to my previous company.
And before you move please contemplate the following:
No rostering or scheduling agreement
Roster instability. A secret policy to make changes to your roster without informing you until a few days before hand. They still will not tell pilots or cabin crew that they are going to be called out for an early standby duty the night before by publishing it on the crew roster system... Stating EASA regs and maintaining flexibility! Thank goodness none of the other UK airlines have adopted this pathetic policy, and we can be prepared for standby call out the night before.
No healthcare provision. It is NHS waiting lists for you while you are grounded
No staff travel
No crew food (might seem daft but what happens when you are called to fly to TFS towards the end of an airport standby duty and you need three more meals with you). No company credit card here my friends to nip into the terminal with as would be absolutely normal at other airlines).
No disruption pay, no flexible working pay, no thank you.
Poor pension (different company contribution percentage for FO/SFO and Capt for no apparent reason, other than FOs are treated badly!)
No professional body representation (no recognition of an organisation actively supporting your industry and safety across it!)
They do not even pay for your rating on your licence!
It is a poor package for a firm that made £100 million profit, even if you only fly 600hrs a year!
Anything else lacking that I have missed!?
It is truely one of the most unhappy environments I have ever worked in, where staff morale is low. Cabin crew are treated poorly too. Some are being changed from senior to junior constantly to save a few bobb, winter coats not provided with some crew told to buy their own, temp contracts galore, and they even loose around £100 of their wage (a monthly bonus!) for calling in sick. If the trolleys are down on stock, then wages are docked! Despicable practice that is not normal, but there is no one for them them to turn to collectively to view their issues. Cabin tidy payments!? What cabin tidy payments!
The firm I now work for is similar to one I worked for before Jet2! It is not perfect but in contrast provides a lovely place to work, real benefits, a flexible and understanding crewing department, professional body recognition, staff travel galore with free concessions, decent loss of licence that you do not have to add to, great profit share scheme, share save scheme, and the newbies were welcomed on day one with open arms!! Feedback is absolutely encouraged and cabin crew / pilot interaction is spot on! CRM is normal, FOs are encouraged to develop! Such a lovely change of scenery to Jet2 and a true 'professional' airline environment within which to work again and re-establish a career. Command might be a little further away but it is a joy to work here doing the same job as at Jet2 but feeling more appreciated, looked after and treated properly as a professional, and given the opportunity to develop skills!
I would encourage anyone approaching command at Jet2 to think about moving on and see what a proper airline has to offer! It could do wonders for your morale and for your career! Green grass!
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I was a captain at Jet2 and left for many of the reasons you mention. I'm now an FO at another airline, I'm still based at home, still have quiet winters (not sure why Jet2ers think they're the only British airline to have quiet winters!) and while the FO pay is down compared to a Jet2 captains, all the other benefits mentioned in the above post, particularly the rostering agreement more than make up for it. I think the regional bases at Jet2 have it better - I was at one of the bigger bases I was doing 650 hours a year with endless airport standbys over the winter despite there being very few flights operating some days!
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Wow, that's really both interesting and intriguing - as I've been here only a year and have the absolute polar opposite experience to what you have stated.
I joined as a DEC having worked previously for two of the world's biggest airlines and have nothing but positive experiences of the training, management and my colleagues. The flight deck gradient is exactly right, the first officers in general are very knowledgeable and extremely supportive, the cabin crew are happy and friendly, and the few members of management that I have met are open to ideas and friendly to deal with. This is all based on my experiences in the last 12 months since I joined. I have heard however that a while back things were not as they are now.
Just out of interest, where did you guys work previously? The terms and conditions here are pretty good compared to the intensity and difficulty of the work, and almost as good as the airlines flying twice as much at nasty times of day. At this present time it's the best job I've had... hope it stays this way...
🙏
I joined as a DEC having worked previously for two of the world's biggest airlines and have nothing but positive experiences of the training, management and my colleagues. The flight deck gradient is exactly right, the first officers in general are very knowledgeable and extremely supportive, the cabin crew are happy and friendly, and the few members of management that I have met are open to ideas and friendly to deal with. This is all based on my experiences in the last 12 months since I joined. I have heard however that a while back things were not as they are now.
Just out of interest, where did you guys work previously? The terms and conditions here are pretty good compared to the intensity and difficulty of the work, and almost as good as the airlines flying twice as much at nasty times of day. At this present time it's the best job I've had... hope it stays this way...
🙏
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Stockport one
I don't recognise the place you describe as the place that I work????
It's not a bed of roses, so don't start with any of that BS, but really.....
Poor T's & C's - well they are improving slowly but surely, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Poor Flight Deck CRM - care to elaborate?? I'm lost with this one.
No encouragement for FO to run their sector - again, I really don't know where you get this from? FO's run their sector from start to finish within the boundaries of SOP's.
No staff travel - yes there is (I know it rarely works, but there is a staff travel system)
No crew food - thank HMRC for that. We had a choice years ago, before you joined, and we decided to ditch it in favour of retaining our tax free duty allowance.
Some of the points you make are valid, but much of what you say just isn't true, or has been sensationalised to say the least.
I don't recognise the place you describe as the place that I work????
It's not a bed of roses, so don't start with any of that BS, but really.....
Poor T's & C's - well they are improving slowly but surely, Rome wasn't built in a day.
Poor Flight Deck CRM - care to elaborate?? I'm lost with this one.
No encouragement for FO to run their sector - again, I really don't know where you get this from? FO's run their sector from start to finish within the boundaries of SOP's.
No staff travel - yes there is (I know it rarely works, but there is a staff travel system)
No crew food - thank HMRC for that. We had a choice years ago, before you joined, and we decided to ditch it in favour of retaining our tax free duty allowance.
Some of the points you make are valid, but much of what you say just isn't true, or has been sensationalised to say the least.
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Originally Posted by Johnny F@rt Pants
Having quickly scanned through the last 10 pages of proficiency check results (there are 50 prof checks per page) I counted 3 fails. There is NO chopping mentality despite what some people think, we are there to help you as necessary to reach the standards should you not manage to do so at the first attempt, unfortunately there will always be some who, despite the guidance, still don't meet the required standard. Comprehensive retraining is provided to those candidates in order that they can then demonstrate the required standard.
Originally Posted by Jumbo2
A famous quote says "Train people well enough so they can leave, treat them well enough so they don't".
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Stockportonealpha.
I have to agree, with the majority of your points!
It seemed to me that you either became a yes man and progressed, or just kept your head down. Ok for a Captain but difficult for an FO coming up to command.
Clearly you were not one of the inner sanctum!
I have to agree, with the majority of your points!
It seemed to me that you either became a yes man and progressed, or just kept your head down. Ok for a Captain but difficult for an FO coming up to command.
Clearly you were not one of the inner sanctum!
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How difficult could be for a experienced Spanish FO to get the upgrade? It could be the language a barrier? I mean most of the pilots in Jet2 are from UK right... so my fear is to leave RYR with the Command Upgrade course at the end of the year and to go JET2 and have lot of problems to get the upgrade there.
But in the other hand what I want is to stop flying 4 sectors days, do not go to a non popular base after the Upgrade for 1 or 2 years and to earn 1000 Euros more than now as FO.
So I'm thinking if Jet2 gives me Alicante or even Mallorca permanent. An opportunity after 1 year or so for my Command and leave me fix in Spain... I would see my life and my future better.
About the salary as Captain in Jet2 it is higher than Captain in Ryanair contract (5500-6500 Euros net). As FO salary is more or less the same I think.
In resume I want to continue living in Spain even after the upgrade. Do not fly 4 sectors days. To be motivated with a good salary as Captain and to have a chance of going for the course within one or 2 years.
Do you recommend me to leave RYR now and go for JET2 ?
But in the other hand what I want is to stop flying 4 sectors days, do not go to a non popular base after the Upgrade for 1 or 2 years and to earn 1000 Euros more than now as FO.
So I'm thinking if Jet2 gives me Alicante or even Mallorca permanent. An opportunity after 1 year or so for my Command and leave me fix in Spain... I would see my life and my future better.
About the salary as Captain in Jet2 it is higher than Captain in Ryanair contract (5500-6500 Euros net). As FO salary is more or less the same I think.
In resume I want to continue living in Spain even after the upgrade. Do not fly 4 sectors days. To be motivated with a good salary as Captain and to have a chance of going for the course within one or 2 years.
Do you recommend me to leave RYR now and go for JET2 ?
Join Date: May 1999
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Blaming HMRC for no crew food?. That sounds like you've been fed a line of total nonsense from your managers. Food isn't taxed as a BIK. I understand the bit about your subsistence allowance, but at BA we get crew food AND allowances that have a tax free element. Sounds like you could do with a union.
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3 fails for LPC's per 500 is still rather high. I haven't failed anyone outright for an LPC in 10years! Plenty of repeated and retested items, but an outright fail is very very rare in my company.
