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Old 25th Jul 2016, 19:53
  #121 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 44
Hi JaxofMarlow

I imagine the argument would be essentially the same: after all, even someone with a type rating still has to be put through an induction, trained to operate Flybe SOPs, and brought through to final line check, all of which uses up training capacity and costs the company money.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 22:23
  #122 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Reversethrustset View Post
AFA, I think you're mis-interpreting the logic. You're not signing over anything even if the bond is 100k so why would you sign over your first born and house? Yes plans change etc, but you can say that about anything, like why pay Ryanair 30k for a type rating to then realise it's not what you thought it was, or why pay 120k for flight training to only realise the job isn't what it cracked up to be. Yes I agree it's pretty disgraceful making a type rated bod sign an 18k bond but there are choices in life, and those choices are either don't join, call them up and ask exactly why the bond needs signing and what is it for exactly or just get on with it.
No mis-interpretation at all, I know exactly what a bond is supposed to be for. Or what it used to be for anyway.
With respect your comparison with Ryanair or an FTO rather make my point. With them you come out with a type rating or an FATPL after parting with your cash. If you're type rated & left Flybe early for whatever reason what exactly have you got for your 18K?? Notwithstanding ancillary training costs of integrating a new recruit as mentioned above (is the bond for non type rated recruits even more in that case?) & yes I know it reduces.
I think most people understand the difference anyway.
We agree it's disgraceful at least but I have no dog in this fight and no interest in Flybe thank goodness so I'll leave you to it.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 23:20
  #123 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere In The South China Sea
Posts: 960
The 737 rating I can swallow, but a fATPL? One would have to question the veracity of your statement considering 70% of fresh faced students never realise a job in the right hand seat of an airliner. Apart from that it's quite simple isn't it, the OP has three options.

1. Call Flybe asking what he/she is getting for that type of bond and WHY is it that high for already type rated pilots.
2. Don't join.
3. Join and hope he/she doesn't have to leave within the bond period.

And yes I agree with you, reversethrust and everyone else, it is a disgrace to bond for that amount for already type rated pilots but there maybe a legitimate reason why, even if we're struggling to think of one.
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Old 25th Jul 2016, 23:47
  #124 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 95
The bond appears to be nothing more than a cynical attempt to tie a financial millstone to new recruits, to keep them in the company. Seems strange to apply such a steep bond to direct entry captains (especially type rated ones) since I can't imagine they are in plentiful supply... It will take successful applicants to refuse the offer, otherwise it won't change.
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Old 26th Jul 2016, 00:21
  #125 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: between the M6 and M25
Posts: 123
Thomson ask for 21k over three years off your salary if non rated and 7k off the salary yr 1 if you are rated. So airlines do want to recoup some of their costs, but 18k is over the top.
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Old 26th Jul 2016, 13:52
  #126 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: on this planet
Posts: 103
Their train set and hence if you want a job there - follow the process otherwise you have a choice to not go there.
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Old 29th Jul 2016, 11:03
  #127 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Here, there, everywhere
Posts: 251
a cynical attempt to tie a financial millstone to new recruits, to keep them in the company
Got it in one. Attrition is high, very high at present. A significant number of others have their affairs in order for an exit this winter.

Moral has seen a significant increase now that pay & scheduling discussion are closed. Q4 drivers have seen a bump that will close the gap to jet in 3 years. FO's joining now will join a common pay scale on day one.

Commands are currently happening for those hitting the 2000TT mark. Jumps on to the Ejet can be less than 12 months from start date if you're willing to go anywhere.

Current downside; stability none. Flying/duty limits regularly reached by some. Overtime however is available 'on tap' for those that want it.
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Old 4th Aug 2016, 09:57
  #128 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: between the M6 and M25
Posts: 123
Is the market at last opening up,for turboprop guys

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Old 4th Aug 2016, 20:56
  #129 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 200
That sounds like Wizz.
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Old 4th Dec 2016, 11:15
  #130 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: between the M6 and M25
Posts: 123
Improved Terms now for DEC at Flybe, 33 days leave from the start, 12% pension contribution and now only a 2yr bond.

Cabin Crew < Careers < Corporate | Flybe UK
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 11:18
  #131 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 71
Whats the point of the 10 tonne requirement? Is the airspace or rules of flying different if the aircraft is under 10 tonnes?
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 11:26
  #132 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 292
For the same reason all the other airlines place stipulations on their recruiting requirements, to stop a certain demographic from applying, for instance, a captain flying chieftains will not be suited to the operation.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 11:28
  #133 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 71
What about stipulating Multi-Crew time and/or turbine/turbo-prop time, as there are many, many decent operations/operators using aircraft under 10 tonnes. There will be hundreds of highly qualified and competent pilots flying aircraft under 10 tonnes that won't be able to apply.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 20:15
  #134 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 292
G-DAVE I don't really see an issue, the stipulations are quite forgiving to be honest. You won't see lower DEC requirements than that at any other major operator in the UK. Easyjet/jet2 all required alot more than that. The Q400 isn't just your usual run of the mill airplane, it's very unforgiving and is difficult to master if you've never flown anything similar before, particularly if you're a new commander to type with a raw chap in the RHS, and believe me anyone taking the job will be flying with alot of inexperience.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 20:49
  #135 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 741
I think people tend to over exaggerate the difficulty of the Dash. Yeah it can be tricky to land at times and there's some peculiarities to it (particularly Vmo below FL80 - but you just need to be aware of that and slow down, which you can do quickly). I honestly found energy management for example way more challenging going onto the airbus. The dash could slow down and go down. Easily. Admittedly it doesn't take an awful long time to master on the bus but a CDA on the dash was a piece of piss to achieve. Less so on Jets. I loved the dash (would love to have another go at it) and it's a fantastic aircraft to start on, no question. But let's not pretend it's the Space Shuttle ;-)
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 21:01
  #136 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Reversethrustset; just by reading your post I would wager money that you've never sat in the business end of a commercial flight, let alone have enough knowledge on the subject to pass comment. Sorry, but there are just too many assumptions (and incorrect ones IMHO) in your post that lead me to think that. So, what you're saying is, flying a completely different aircraft to a Dash, as long as it it more than 10 tonnes, is ok, but one that has a MTOW of 9.9 tonnes or less doesn't give you the same skills? How about a large freighter aircraft over 10 tonnes? One sector, evening flights, only two crew onboard? Thats really helping you learn skills for an operation like FlyBe isn't it?!

Rex Banner, you talk sense! I know people who have moved onto the Dash and they say very similar things to you.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 23:32
  #137 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 144
Flybe and Thomson have reached an agreement whereby experienced TOM F/Os go to Flybe on a 3 yr career break as direct entry Commanders, and Flybe F/Os go to TOM to gain experience in the RHS of a jet.
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Old 5th Dec 2016, 23:50
  #138 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: <60 minutes
Posts: 111
Rex does talk sense, yes, but always worth bearing in mind 5000shp assymetric will try to invert you and a 30' prop that wont feather will put you in Seneca performance territory but with 30 tons to keep aloft. 2 idiosyncrasies most bus drivers dont need a back up plan for.
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 02:39
  #139 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the real world
Posts: 365
Holy Guacamoli ...

What is wrong with you people!! A jet is a jet is a jet!!! A prop is a prop is a prop!!! they are all the same just different. I went from from a Beech Duchess to a 757 and yes it was a learning curve but bugger me it wasn't that big a deal. It took me two months to get it, are we honestly saying that someone can't come from a king air to a Q400?....... B*llocks!!!

Maybe it's about time that we (as in those who fly big jets) acknowledge the fact that any bugger can do it and stop p*ssing on the the guy who is just trying to further his career........
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Old 6th Dec 2016, 03:08
  #140 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In the real world
Posts: 365
And Matey, i've heard that rumour also..... but come on.... who's going to swap a TOM FO jet job with all the add ons to fly as a Captain on a Dash for less dosh/ work twice as hard and be treated like sh*t?

Ill answer that.... no one!

I'm sorry to talk so frank but it's about time those in the prop/loco brigade realise that there really is so much more available out there......
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