Flybe
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: atop a high mountain.
I can't figure out why FlyBE can't make decent profits. Are the Q400s just too small? Do you need to be closer to 100 seats to make it all worthwhile while still not being eaten for breakfast by the LCCs with their planes which are nearer 200 seats but even as is their load factor is under 70%?
It can't be fuel as the turboprops don't burn much. Is it poor leases?
Why so many staff? over 2300 employees for just 83 planes; Flybe-Group-plc-Annual-Report-2016-17.pdf on their website.
I can't blame the pilots for any of this. They just fly the planes and appear to be working the hours.
Maybe if they were taken under the (sic) wing of a benign larger airline then some of the backend activities would become redundant. I don't see Stobart bringing much in the way of critical mass to the table.
It can't be fuel as the turboprops don't burn much. Is it poor leases?
Why so many staff? over 2300 employees for just 83 planes; Flybe-Group-plc-Annual-Report-2016-17.pdf on their website.
I can't blame the pilots for any of this. They just fly the planes and appear to be working the hours.
Maybe if they were taken under the (sic) wing of a benign larger airline then some of the backend activities would become redundant. I don't see Stobart bringing much in the way of critical mass to the table.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: France
I think it is quit relevant, I heard for one E195, we would have 2 A319 in leased. And the deal on the dash 8 is less crap but still crap ...
The last E195 will leave the fleet 2019 and lot of dash 8 will come to their end of lease before 2020.
I m looking forward the 22th of march, see what Stobart will say and the first week of April to see the result of the 17/18 for Flybe.
And for people who said I ll maybe have no choice to relocate my family because no more job (don't really believe currently ... But never know ...) I already went through 3 airlines going bankrupt ... So I ll manage again if needed ...
The last E195 will leave the fleet 2019 and lot of dash 8 will come to their end of lease before 2020.
I m looking forward the 22th of march, see what Stobart will say and the first week of April to see the result of the 17/18 for Flybe.
And for people who said I ll maybe have no choice to relocate my family because no more job (don't really believe currently ... But never know ...) I already went through 3 airlines going bankrupt ... So I ll manage again if needed ...
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
17/18 results have a predicted loss of 10-15 million?
No idea why Flybe can't make a profit. I think it is a bit of everything. Expensive leases (the E-195's are loss making and have a crap lease), probably too much inefficient staff, Regional is a tough market to make money as well I think. You can make a profit, but margins are small, smaller than for a RYR or EZY. The extra use in fuel is probably easier compensated with a fuller bigger aircraft.
If you then have on the other side loss making routes, expensive jets, poor marketing to get the flights full, a headquarter in Exeter for which you will never get the best staff since they tend to go for jobs in the bigger cities where they can make a better career, an office with lots of young people without the operational experience, an expensive training academy which was meant to be hired out to locals but which is often empty, senior management that comes and goes, lots of pilots leaving so your most expensive pilots (TRI/TRE's ) are not productive (as in flying), because they spent whole months in the sim in EXT for training and there are probably a few more reasons to name!
An example which I found shocking was that a senior manager not long ago said they saw a high rise in requests for flights during the Rugby in Wales (we did some charters) and that they were now looking if they could do this more often, because Flybe was never really bothering to look into these sport events. They probably do lots of great things in the office, but really? Saying these kind of things make me really question the business minds of the senior management!
Rant over! :-) Besides all this Flybe is pretty great to work for. Great people, but unfortunately great people are not a guarantee for profit ;-). And Stobart? hmm its been a bit too quiet I think + Flybe keeps postponing the fleet update + Flybe is already cooperating with Stobart = a bid will probably happen is my gutfeeling. We will see!
No idea why Flybe can't make a profit. I think it is a bit of everything. Expensive leases (the E-195's are loss making and have a crap lease), probably too much inefficient staff, Regional is a tough market to make money as well I think. You can make a profit, but margins are small, smaller than for a RYR or EZY. The extra use in fuel is probably easier compensated with a fuller bigger aircraft.
If you then have on the other side loss making routes, expensive jets, poor marketing to get the flights full, a headquarter in Exeter for which you will never get the best staff since they tend to go for jobs in the bigger cities where they can make a better career, an office with lots of young people without the operational experience, an expensive training academy which was meant to be hired out to locals but which is often empty, senior management that comes and goes, lots of pilots leaving so your most expensive pilots (TRI/TRE's ) are not productive (as in flying), because they spent whole months in the sim in EXT for training and there are probably a few more reasons to name!
An example which I found shocking was that a senior manager not long ago said they saw a high rise in requests for flights during the Rugby in Wales (we did some charters) and that they were now looking if they could do this more often, because Flybe was never really bothering to look into these sport events. They probably do lots of great things in the office, but really? Saying these kind of things make me really question the business minds of the senior management!
Rant over! :-) Besides all this Flybe is pretty great to work for. Great people, but unfortunately great people are not a guarantee for profit ;-). And Stobart? hmm its been a bit too quiet I think + Flybe keeps postponing the fleet update + Flybe is already cooperating with Stobart = a bid will probably happen is my gutfeeling. We will see!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
Why can’t Flybe make a profit? BA Connect. The takeover in 2007 left Flybe far too big with razor thin margins. Simple as that. Throw extremely scattergun approach to route planning and poor marketing into the mix and you’re fighting an impossibly uphill battle.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: France
I agree, sometime I. wondering about how management thing .
Why did Flybe ever try to fly from Edinburgh or Aberdeen to the small island north of Scotland with a EJet 170 from Eastern on a SHARE risk deal ... Those flight where operated with a Saab 340 from years with loganair ... So to have a 78 seat plane and furthermore a jet ... I heard Flybe lost 3 millions in the few months of operations before to stop.
We will see the 22th of march what Stobart will say, but I think as well they will try to bid for Flybe in the near futur
Why did Flybe ever try to fly from Edinburgh or Aberdeen to the small island north of Scotland with a EJet 170 from Eastern on a SHARE risk deal ... Those flight where operated with a Saab 340 from years with loganair ... So to have a 78 seat plane and furthermore a jet ... I heard Flybe lost 3 millions in the few months of operations before to stop.
We will see the 22th of march what Stobart will say, but I think as well they will try to bid for Flybe in the near futur
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 532
Likes: 2
From: UK
Whoever decided to go into partnership with Eastern on the Highland & Island routes in competition with Loganair should be out on their ear immediately, the amount of money in that whole debacle must be substantial!
Last edited by RAFAT; 23rd March 2018 at 01:05. Reason: Grammar & spelling.
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: atop a high mountain.
@FlyBE staff; Do the current management team look like they know what they are doing going in to the future and are just hamstrung by bad decisions from previous management teams or are they making their own new mistakes/frightened to grasp nettles?
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 380
Likes: 19
From: London
Regarding airsouthewest comment above, to clarify it wasn't Stobart air the airline that was in discussions with flybe about a takeover, it was the Stobart group, with interests in aviation, power, rail and property and with a capitalisation of over £1bn so I think it was a realistic and beneficial process and could have been good for both parties.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 532
Likes: 2
From: UK
That's very true six-sixty, even going back to the 90s & early Noughties! I remember the LBA-LCY route that was started with absolutely zero advertising and virtually empty aircraft flying up and down, but then, when word got around after a month or two and the aircraft started to fill up quickly, they chopped the route!!! Madness!
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 995
Likes: 103
From: Botswana
So basically morph into BA Connect (which they acquired in 2007) and which wasn’t profitable either hence why BA got rid of it in the first place. Interesting strategy.
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Carlisle
The only profitable part of Flybe is the engineering division which is often underfunded, has poor staff moral and senior management don't give a toss about.
That situation has remained unchanged since 1990, despite many changes of management. The Jack Walker philosophy of paying little and running a sweatshop has worked to a degree, (after all, they are still there despite everything), but the resistance to hiring professionals in preference to local cheap labour does prevent progress.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 382
Likes: 0
From: on the dark side of the moon!
Lol, my username as got nothing do to with Air Southwest owned by Sutton/Eastern Airways. As others have said, this airline has been losing money for years, it always blames it on something, Volcanic Ash, Seat Capacity, Strikes, Beast from the East, if so why do Ryanair & Easyjet still make money? Simple Flybe's business model/structure is poor.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
From: Somewhere In The South China Sea
