Ryanair Vs BA Part 2
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Normal Pilot
If you're happy, why gamble on losing that? Who can tell what might be in your future?
I've a good mate at BA, he's recently been told that he's got a Command course. He's waited eighteen years and eighteen thousand hours for it. I wouldn't have wanted to wait that long.
You work hard at Ryanair, but in my opinion you work hard at BA too. The flying game is not what it used to be. For some people it never is truly what they need, rather than want. I was such a person. I've written a book about it since I had my stroke, it was revealing, though it didn't answer many questions, rather it revealed which are the right questions to ask.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Why leave, thats the big question I was asking, why should I leave when I am so happy at the moment.
I've a good mate at BA, he's recently been told that he's got a Command course. He's waited eighteen years and eighteen thousand hours for it. I wouldn't have wanted to wait that long.
You work hard at Ryanair, but in my opinion you work hard at BA too. The flying game is not what it used to be. For some people it never is truly what they need, rather than want. I was such a person. I've written a book about it since I had my stroke, it was revealing, though it didn't answer many questions, rather it revealed which are the right questions to ask.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
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I am looking for what is best for my family, not for me. I want to watch my children grow, take them to school, be there for birthdays/xmas etc.
That is the most important. Keep them happy and you'll be happy too. It will more than compensate for all the greener grass and what if's. How you achieve it is a serious question and may involve money. It will certainly involve life-style and that includes time off, and also enough time & money to provide for the joys of life and pension. It sounds like you are not based at one of the large hubs, but perhaps a tiny base that is left alone and let's you get on with it peacefully. If so, long may it last. Beware. Pescara & Cagliari have been put to the sword. Others have proceeded them and others will follow on a whim.
Years ago I once went to interviews with the big boys; Cathay, BA; and later on with other lower division airlines during my nomadic career. I was an experienced airline pilot and they all asked why I wanted to join them when I had a good job. After the opening silvery tongued diplomatic answers I always said I was seeking to improve my family's life style. Never mentioned money or big aeroplanes. I rejected Cathay & BA because they didn't fit the bill. I stayed in the lower divisions and moved around and rose up to TRE. On the outside many airlines looked good and would be a cosy family and adventurous. From the inside they were of a very different colour and culture. Time to move on, again. I got there eventually. Lots of fun, hard work and no pension after many years. But I was seeking the same as you. Happy family life and doing what I enjoyed.
If you've found it, keep it. Think, will it last? Then it's decision time; but glamour will never replace happy family life.
That is the most important. Keep them happy and you'll be happy too. It will more than compensate for all the greener grass and what if's. How you achieve it is a serious question and may involve money. It will certainly involve life-style and that includes time off, and also enough time & money to provide for the joys of life and pension. It sounds like you are not based at one of the large hubs, but perhaps a tiny base that is left alone and let's you get on with it peacefully. If so, long may it last. Beware. Pescara & Cagliari have been put to the sword. Others have proceeded them and others will follow on a whim.
Years ago I once went to interviews with the big boys; Cathay, BA; and later on with other lower division airlines during my nomadic career. I was an experienced airline pilot and they all asked why I wanted to join them when I had a good job. After the opening silvery tongued diplomatic answers I always said I was seeking to improve my family's life style. Never mentioned money or big aeroplanes. I rejected Cathay & BA because they didn't fit the bill. I stayed in the lower divisions and moved around and rose up to TRE. On the outside many airlines looked good and would be a cosy family and adventurous. From the inside they were of a very different colour and culture. Time to move on, again. I got there eventually. Lots of fun, hard work and no pension after many years. But I was seeking the same as you. Happy family life and doing what I enjoyed.
If you've found it, keep it. Think, will it last? Then it's decision time; but glamour will never replace happy family life.
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Here we go descending into a slagging match. I didn't start the thread. What I have said is very relevant to the thread. My comment about taking my violin out I stand by, I am a parent. I want to see my kids all the time and I love them, that's assumed, it's a dumb subject to raise as it would be highly unusual for someone to feel otherwise. It doesn't need to be mentioned.
Relevancy to the thread? Fine. How many times have Ryanair closed a base and or changed the amount of aircraft downward? What happens to your stable family life then? I'll tell you. It goes to ratsh/t and your pay never ever in a million years goes up. Ryanair contract? Watch out, and it may be an unsubstantiated rumour as I cannot confirm, but I heard they've not been paying your social payments in Italy despite it being on your payslip, give the social a call in Italy and ask for an exact figure of how much has been contributed in your name and make sure. You won't have much of a stable family life with Hmrc on your case trust me.
Now tell me this.. Would any or all of the above happen to you at BA? No it won't. BA has its issues but they aren't issues that might bankrupt you, move you 1000 miles from home and drop your pay. Am I wrong? Tell me I'm wrong. Fr has form in that regard, BA doesn't. I hope it doesn't happen to you normal but the odds are it will eventually.
Marseille? Crew living in caravans in a trailer park to avoid social payments that are actually for their benefit. Ryanair issuing memos saying they are championing their cause by fighting the evil French government from dropping their pay. Eh no, the French government never said that they said pay them the same you're meant to put the social payments on top.. how many other bases you know have closed? Put aircraft numbers up and down (people are expected to move their lives when that happens you know) only a matter of time normal. A matter of time. I warned you dude.
Relevancy to the thread? Fine. How many times have Ryanair closed a base and or changed the amount of aircraft downward? What happens to your stable family life then? I'll tell you. It goes to ratsh/t and your pay never ever in a million years goes up. Ryanair contract? Watch out, and it may be an unsubstantiated rumour as I cannot confirm, but I heard they've not been paying your social payments in Italy despite it being on your payslip, give the social a call in Italy and ask for an exact figure of how much has been contributed in your name and make sure. You won't have much of a stable family life with Hmrc on your case trust me.
Now tell me this.. Would any or all of the above happen to you at BA? No it won't. BA has its issues but they aren't issues that might bankrupt you, move you 1000 miles from home and drop your pay. Am I wrong? Tell me I'm wrong. Fr has form in that regard, BA doesn't. I hope it doesn't happen to you normal but the odds are it will eventually.
Marseille? Crew living in caravans in a trailer park to avoid social payments that are actually for their benefit. Ryanair issuing memos saying they are championing their cause by fighting the evil French government from dropping their pay. Eh no, the French government never said that they said pay them the same you're meant to put the social payments on top.. how many other bases you know have closed? Put aircraft numbers up and down (people are expected to move their lives when that happens you know) only a matter of time normal. A matter of time. I warned you dude.
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The last I heard from a good source is the F/O contractor pay rate has been dropped to a maximum of €70 psbh - Storm contract. That's becoming a big percentage of the workforce, all new cadets + F/Os signing new contracts for whatever reason, rejected at upgrade, happy in their base, being paid significantly less than just a few years ago. 5 years ago max pay rate was €83, then I believe it went minus five to €78 with the new introduction of Storm, now it's down to €70. That's before sim deductions a 4,50 psbh!! Don't forget social payments + income tax. Don't get too creative with expenses on the company. You take it for its worth, draw your own conclusions. But for a company in such a healthy financial state I curious for how long its workforce will believe in goodwill.
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From someone who was there long enough - forget Ryanair because they are screwing everyone eventually. 10 % paycut after 5 years illegality on social security and tax. You must comply with their scam setup that puts you into illegalit with no rights. Agencies brk and storm are interconnected in a way so that one knows what you said to the other.. God forbid someone would think they are muppets of ryanair. 
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As some old sage rumoured many years ago:
In a flight deck there are 2 professional proud pilots performing positively.
In a cockpit there are 2 pricks and no balls.
Enter the latter at your own peril.
In a flight deck there are 2 professional proud pilots performing positively.
In a cockpit there are 2 pricks and no balls.
Enter the latter at your own peril.
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One more myth of ryantology that I wish to dispel. There's a perception amongst fr pilots that they are seen by the wider aviation community as excellent 737 operators, evidenced by fr pilots success in securing jobs in the Middle East. I found out that this perception is entirely false.
The reason these pilots get jobs in the Middle East has nothing to do with their ability to fly the aircraft as close as possible to the ground for 45 minutes whilst discussing the blatantly obvious, it's because they know an fr pilot is the most unlikely to cause a fuss over t and c. You may not agree with that but it's fact. Yes you are well trained but step back and think about it for a second, you are well trained to handle a single failure in a certain manner. The sim instructor tells you in the brief to 'treat every scenario as real'. So there you are taking off out of xwz and the engine goes bang. You fly off to a hold and have a conversation about this for 45 min and check weather for a place you just left. Cabin crew only call you when called and are really calm and analytical. Passengers are silent and are only thinking about the inconvenience this will cause. All the while as close as possible to the ground. There's nothing real about that whatsoever.
Cast your minds back to the Hudson incident and BA in heathrow when the fuel allegedly froze (don't believe that for a second either). Hudson capt flew, did the radio, decided where they were going to land, all in an instant. Ba capt saw his co pilot was doing a good job and had the ingenious idea to raise flap and keep the 777 for landing on top of Slough. Did you know in fr we had an incident quite similar to these two?
An aircraft on approach in Rome encountered a very large flock of birds on approach and elected to go around. After taking multiple bird strikes both engines wound back to idle and the capt expertly put it on the runway. Aircraft written off. So sullenberger gets 50k per after dinner speech, burkhill goes on tv (then gets ridiculed by his colleagues who made him out to have bottled it when he clearly didn't) but guess what happened to our guy? They put a picture up in every crew room of a flock of birds and underneath told us that this was a 'murmuration'. After the taken off Google Attenborugh lecture they said (I still have it) if you see this on approach don't go around fly through it. At least I know now what to call a flock of starlings.
During a check for a job I'm sitting there with a quantas capt, ana capt, examiner from aviation authority and an American Airlines capt. So I pull out my fr handy dandy thing and proceed to read. 'Phones' I say. Silence. I say it again. 'Phones'. Japanese dude is asking me if I lost my phone. I point to my checklist. Aussie guy grabs it and is like holy sh/t look at this giving it to the American guy. Examiner is now all over it. I have four guys in the sim laughing their arses off. That night at dinner the Aussie says 'phones' and the whole table is going off.
The reason these pilots get jobs in the Middle East has nothing to do with their ability to fly the aircraft as close as possible to the ground for 45 minutes whilst discussing the blatantly obvious, it's because they know an fr pilot is the most unlikely to cause a fuss over t and c. You may not agree with that but it's fact. Yes you are well trained but step back and think about it for a second, you are well trained to handle a single failure in a certain manner. The sim instructor tells you in the brief to 'treat every scenario as real'. So there you are taking off out of xwz and the engine goes bang. You fly off to a hold and have a conversation about this for 45 min and check weather for a place you just left. Cabin crew only call you when called and are really calm and analytical. Passengers are silent and are only thinking about the inconvenience this will cause. All the while as close as possible to the ground. There's nothing real about that whatsoever.
Cast your minds back to the Hudson incident and BA in heathrow when the fuel allegedly froze (don't believe that for a second either). Hudson capt flew, did the radio, decided where they were going to land, all in an instant. Ba capt saw his co pilot was doing a good job and had the ingenious idea to raise flap and keep the 777 for landing on top of Slough. Did you know in fr we had an incident quite similar to these two?
An aircraft on approach in Rome encountered a very large flock of birds on approach and elected to go around. After taking multiple bird strikes both engines wound back to idle and the capt expertly put it on the runway. Aircraft written off. So sullenberger gets 50k per after dinner speech, burkhill goes on tv (then gets ridiculed by his colleagues who made him out to have bottled it when he clearly didn't) but guess what happened to our guy? They put a picture up in every crew room of a flock of birds and underneath told us that this was a 'murmuration'. After the taken off Google Attenborugh lecture they said (I still have it) if you see this on approach don't go around fly through it. At least I know now what to call a flock of starlings.
During a check for a job I'm sitting there with a quantas capt, ana capt, examiner from aviation authority and an American Airlines capt. So I pull out my fr handy dandy thing and proceed to read. 'Phones' I say. Silence. I say it again. 'Phones'. Japanese dude is asking me if I lost my phone. I point to my checklist. Aussie guy grabs it and is like holy sh/t look at this giving it to the American guy. Examiner is now all over it. I have four guys in the sim laughing their arses off. That night at dinner the Aussie says 'phones' and the whole table is going off.
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BD are you aiming for a posting record! Can this thread drift anymore ? You made some valid points, warned your fellows now quite honestly it's time to hang up your pencil !
BD that was indeed a good post and very funny. Were they laughing at 'phones' though and not the fact you 'pulled our your RYR handy dandy' (which is not a handy dandy it is unfortunately our checklist) during a check for another job?!
don't get it ...
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hahaha yeah for this job you had to bring the lot, qrh, checklists headset etc (in fact if you're going for any job keep all that stuff in your bag) decal the lot. Ended up using the quantas one.. ten times better. Others couldn't believe we turn around in 25 min using that checklist am like eh we don't dude. And yes they were probably just laughing at me!
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Sorry mackoi. Fr have over complicated the sops so much that it's more like reciting a nursery rhyme on the flight deck than actually checking or briefing.. So they have added on items to the Boeing checklist and the first item on the before start is 'PHONES..............OFF' to which I would always reply 'ON, all 200 of them' lol. This was very amusing to the others at this particular assessment as their companies do not treat their staff like rhesus monkeys.
FR are not the only company with that on their checklist.
Most crew I know turn it to flight mode. Purely to save battery (when it's constantly hunting for signal it uses megaloads of battery), not for any fears of interference.
I would have thought it should be left to common sense rather than a checklist item... people who are gonna turn their phone off are going to turn it off, people who aren't are not going to even if its on the checklist.
Most crew I know turn it to flight mode. Purely to save battery (when it's constantly hunting for signal it uses megaloads of battery), not for any fears of interference.
I would have thought it should be left to common sense rather than a checklist item... people who are gonna turn their phone off are going to turn it off, people who aren't are not going to even if its on the checklist.
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Yeah well fr have 'phones' on their checklist as they feel they need to put that there as their pilots are too dumb to remember the above points themselves.
Also normal. Good luck with command. I mean that, it's tough. But please let us know where they send you, my bets are Poland on 3k a month with the associated expenses or maybe Sicily on 3.1k a month with rent payable to the mafia (yes really, I've been there) and the Italian taxman. Best course of action there is to ask the mafia guy to sort out the taxman if you pay him a bit more, sorted. I didn't make that up. And he'll bring you fresh oranges every morning, just don't not pay the rent for two months because he didn't provide wifi.. Bad idea. Our mate did the above and the boys called around when I was there and he wasn't... Ryanair v BA. Lol.
Also normal. Good luck with command. I mean that, it's tough. But please let us know where they send you, my bets are Poland on 3k a month with the associated expenses or maybe Sicily on 3.1k a month with rent payable to the mafia (yes really, I've been there) and the Italian taxman. Best course of action there is to ask the mafia guy to sort out the taxman if you pay him a bit more, sorted. I didn't make that up. And he'll bring you fresh oranges every morning, just don't not pay the rent for two months because he didn't provide wifi.. Bad idea. Our mate did the above and the boys called around when I was there and he wasn't... Ryanair v BA. Lol.
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Ryanair explained in simple terms
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As if on que Ryanair go and prove my point. They're closing two Italian bases as they've 'no choice but to' because Italy has raised airport tax per pax from 6.50 to 9.00, representing an increase of 2.50 per ticket which of course warrants two base closures.. Money they charge you the pax not money they pay themselves.. And on individual flights where fares vary 400 euro from cheapest to most expensive. Champion of the ordinary man (which is what they'll dress it up as and whose cash they are trying to extract)
So why not close all Italian bases then? Eh.. Making too much money we'll just pass on that charge to the passenger.. Which we were going to do anyway.
So imagine you were Italian, house bought, kids at school and 'home' every night? based in pescara? That just went to absolute sh/t. Because of e2.50. Believe that, you'll believe anything. This is what they'll do to your life next if you let them. That 2.50 was charged to the passenger who, (especially if dumb enough to buy the 'business plus' ticket) won't notice it. It's just an excuse to deploy those aircraft to more profitable routes, which when you let a company open 70 bases is just going to happen more and more. Which is fine, pay me. Need me in Rome? Pay me. Need me a month in Poland? No problem. Pay me.
But bd the company would lose cash doing that!! And it would impact profit? Really?? Anyone based in beauvais? Nope, but youre going to tell me it isn't one of their largest bases right? so it's not a problem for them whatsoever, they've proven it. It's all about maximising profit and no one cares about you being at 'home'.
So why not close all Italian bases then? Eh.. Making too much money we'll just pass on that charge to the passenger.. Which we were going to do anyway.
So imagine you were Italian, house bought, kids at school and 'home' every night? based in pescara? That just went to absolute sh/t. Because of e2.50. Believe that, you'll believe anything. This is what they'll do to your life next if you let them. That 2.50 was charged to the passenger who, (especially if dumb enough to buy the 'business plus' ticket) won't notice it. It's just an excuse to deploy those aircraft to more profitable routes, which when you let a company open 70 bases is just going to happen more and more. Which is fine, pay me. Need me in Rome? Pay me. Need me a month in Poland? No problem. Pay me.
But bd the company would lose cash doing that!! And it would impact profit? Really?? Anyone based in beauvais? Nope, but youre going to tell me it isn't one of their largest bases right? so it's not a problem for them whatsoever, they've proven it. It's all about maximising profit and no one cares about you being at 'home'.