Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

Ryanair Vs BA Part 2

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Ryanair Vs BA Part 2

Old 12th Feb 2016, 09:42
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: by the seaside
Age: 69
Posts: 776
Bigus

Great entertaining post mate. Not a lot difference between the legacy carriers I worked for. Corruption, bullying, tax fiddles and joe soap doing more than fair share of the crap trips except we managed to shoot a couple of punters.
Good luck
Bp
blind pew is online now  
Old 12th Feb 2016, 11:44
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 611
The mere fact most BA pilots seem to support their company whereas most Ryanair pilots seem to have a beef should alert even the most simple minded to the choice!
Avenger is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2016, 13:14
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,347
Biggusdickuss,


Also announced in the Catalan press today that Girona (which in its day pre BCN had uround 13-15 based aircraft ) would be closed if the Spanish Govt didn't drop some passenger tax of some variety.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2016, 18:31
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,054
Same with Oslo-RYG:

Ryanair could close Oslo Rygge base this winter - ch-aviation.com
172_driver is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2016, 22:29
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Hooverville
Age: 79
Posts: 27
Just been in in a hotel near a well known Midlannds Ryanair base full of embryo Normal Pilots. All over excited, loud and giddy over the upcoming opportunity to be further exploited by the chief Pikey. William Burroughs would have felt vindicated at the level of "naked lunch" type of auto-inflicted masochistic glee they were displaying. And pikeys pilots complain that the pikey and his "airline" gets bashed on this site.....truly unbelievable......
Kirk out is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2016, 09:47
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 477
Company I worked for, long time ago, responded to the summer, outstation, traffic increase by offering pilots a six month, outstation base. We were given a thousand pounds a month,( loads of dosh in those days) on top of salary & told to go away & enjoy the summer. The line to HQ caused a few motorway snarl-ups. The deal worked so well that it was repeated the next year and Manchester added to Cardiff with the same offer.

On topic, I agree that we pilots have led to the dismal situation, so eloquently portrayed by "Biggus" in his delightful posts. Way back then, we pilots started fighting over the Bases. Same old faces pitched up ready for action. Same old faced objected to unfairness but failed to volunteer. Management contributed to the mess by selecting some favourites over others.It got really messy when a complete twerp of a Manager decided to break up the offer to bits and pieces. A month here, three months there but the full six months to his favourites. Oh dear ! Pilots, by not collectively objecting,allowed management to get away with it, for a while. However, the the whole plan finally died and we all wound up operating out of outstations, transported, hotac'd at huge cost to the company, again. And still, we allow them to "manage" our lives like this !
Landflap is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2016, 10:01
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,513
Also announced in the Catalan press today that Girona (which in its day pre BCN had around 13-15 based aircraft ) would be closed if the Spanish Govt didn't drop some passenger tax of some variety.

But it's OK for RYR to impose RYR taxes (sorry charges) quite arbitrarily on its pax: e.g. the wheelchair tax, the calamity tax(= volcano flight cancellation tax) which generate €160m per year and is hardly spent, the increase in credit card tax, the administration tax even though you do all the work, etc. etc. RYR stopped German flights and threatened to stop Dutch flights after government environmental tax of €2 was charged, at the same time as RYR introduced the €2 calamity tax.
In the DT 2012 it was calculated that RYR's add-on charges had doubled since 2006. Go figure. If they are going to do it, then just do it, but stop the hypocrisy; it's insulting.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2016, 10:30
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: FL390
Posts: 282
I've a good mate at BA, he's recently been told that he's got a Command course. He's waited eighteen years and eighteen thousand hours for it. I wouldn't have wanted to wait that long.
Long haul, maybe, but time to command on the A320 at Heathrow is currently six months.
Fursty Ferret is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2016, 19:05
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: europe
Age: 30
Posts: 30
I am not the author of these videos but they are 100% spot on accurate real world stuff.
I have flown several times with captains who had just received substancial - existencial tax repayment claims and investigations over bogus self employmemt with initial claims in the 6 digits regime from the UK , italy and other countries. All the risk rests with the individual to manage and defend a contracting model which in most if not all countries in the EU is completely illegal.

Currently ryanair is forcing pilots to have irish ltds, others used to get away with offshore accounts and living under the radar for a lousy pilot salary - scared to buy a car in their name. Sadly enough those who are registered somewhere and aim to be compliant are the first ones on the list to get ******.
Its an absolute jungle and joke for the profession - a madness that needs to be halted.

Also imagine yourself going to fly after receiving such news - besides all the orher crap that u are putting up with.
level_change is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 09:47
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,054
Currently ryanair is forcing pilots to have irish ltds, others used to get away with offshore accounts and living under the radar for a lousy pilot salary - scared to buy a car in their name.
Not defending Ryanair and their employment model.

But, some pilots are their own worst enemy. Having companies in Malta, Dubai or Guernsey while staying under radar in Europe without a permanent address then you deserve to be shot down. Paying hardly any tax on a Brookfield pay rate can't be said is a lousy pilot salary.
172_driver is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 10:31
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,513
while staying under radar in Europe without a permanent address then you deserve to be shot down

No you don't, you deserve a proper employment contract.
RAT 5 is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 11:59
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 1,054
Yes, everyone deserves a proper employment contract but that was a misinterpretation of what I was trying to say.

Those who intentionally try to avoid taxes by setting up offshore business is what I am having a go at. Interesting tax planning was a selling point from Brookfield when it was new. They could provide split payment, e.g. 1/3 in UK, 2/3 in Switzerland to keep tax man happy at home. I've met several of these, they're nice enough people, no psychopaths, but I bite my tongue as to what I think about it.
172_driver is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 12:06
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: London
Posts: 178
But, some pilots are their own worst enemy. Having companies in Malta, Dubai or Guernsey while staying under radar in Europe without a permanent address then you deserve to be shot down. Paying hardly any tax on a Brookfield pay rate can't be said is a lousy pilot salary.
The point is, 172 Driver, that these aren't the people that HMRC will go after. Their prosecution record on any "difficult" cases of offshore tax evasion is woeful. It's something like 11 cases in about the last 10 years.

The people they will go after, as someone said above, are the ones trying to do the right thing by having an accountant, registering things properly and paying the right tax. The real villains are the companies that enforce these ludicrous arrangements, but it's the little guy that pays when it goes tits up.
anson harris is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 15:04
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: I wish I knew
Posts: 611
So in a Nutshell: BA proper contract, unlikely to close bases, don't have to hide from taxman, good hotels, mixed fleet, can go to Long Haul, career airline with perks,staff travel and warm and cosy, you can plan a future, buy house, kids in school and keep Mrs calm. Ryanair good for building hours,ducking and diving from taxman, no security, prospects nil, be prepared to be nomadic, live out of suitcase and expect basing lottery, tough choice this..
Avenger is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 17:17
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Crawley
Age: 50
Posts: 69
Avenger,

That is quite possibly the most accurate post seen on herein a long while

Maybe another comparison worthy of inclusion (if it were possible to gain accurate data) of how many left BA for RYR compared to the reverse route.

And even better if numbers of those who then tried to go back to the previous outfit (legacy or low cost) following the change of carrier.

There are some wonderful urban loco myths about, namely short time to command, and that old chestnut "you'll be in your own bed every night" I haven't done short or med haul for a number of years but friends assure me the number of Loco callsigns heading back to the UK at stupid o clck in the morning, alongside the charter boys (usually also on much better terms and conditions than the locos) is still on the increase. Notably ryr''s nemesis the orange outfit. So is it safe to assume that the cut off point for "home in your own bed each night" is 5am?

Good post that man
Three Lions is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 19:14
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,167
Originally Posted by Three Lions View Post
Maybe another comparison worthy of inclusion (if it were possible to gain accurate data) of how many left BA for RYR compared to the reverse route.
Nowhere near as many as I suspect apply for it.


I know a few of the BA pilot recruitment team, not well enough to call friends, but friends of friends for sure and one is a very good friend of an extended family member. Two of them have said that whilst the Ryanair pilots aren't necessarily lacking in the technical and non-technical skills department, its the commercial considerations that they don't tend to do well with.
Particularly with a regard for customer service.

I guess it just wasn't part of the Ryanair culture to care about the passengers, although that definitely appears to be changing.

One of them said he's seen a noticeable difference in the customer service mentality of EZY pilots over the last 5 or so years, and that EZY/Monarch/TCX/Flybe all tend to think about where their salaries are coming from (i.e. the fare-paying passengers) and try to make the operation as economical as possible for the company because they want to do it for the company (compared to Ryanair pilots who he got the impression wanted to do nothing for the company and only do the minimum they thought they had to in order to avoid detection or disciplinary).


But then treat your "employees" the way Ryanair appears to treat most of their pilots, and you can see why they wouldn't want to do the company any favours.
LlamaFarmer is online now  
Old 14th Feb 2016, 19:24
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: EU
Posts: 120
Not correct Three Lions. As far as I can see online, there are no FR flights scheduled to land after midnight tonight. I suspect that's not an anomaly.
Depone is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2016, 11:13
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Crawley
Age: 50
Posts: 69
Just re-read my post. I was sure I had stated "locos in general" with the comment relating returning to the domestic godesses arms every night.

And that does seem to be the case.

In a second nutshell to follow that quite outstanding initial one,
Low time to command - I understand a command at BA can achieved just as quickly, or even in less time than the locos as we stand in 2016, and also command times at charter airlines are reducing, maybe not yet to loco timeframes, however if you compare retirement bulges at some of the more "life experienced" charter fleets against the generally younger loco fleet personel this may actually become a not too dissimilar timeframe in the near future, especially if you add to the mix the fact that the loco expansions are generally slowing down

Deep night flying - I am also assured loco call signs are being heard with more regularity at "stupid o'clock" alongside the legacies, the long haul and the charters.

The post by Avenger is read to be very clear, and adds further balance to the debate.

My own comments are of a more big picture nature. My view is one that if one loco operator finds a way of making a few extra sheckels then, it is highly likely that the loco mentality of going one step further - the rest will follow.

Try re-reading again, hopefully ive clarified a little better this time.

BR
Three Lions is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.