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Thomson recruitment.

Old 11th Oct 2019, 12:05
  #901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,635
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes View Post
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps itís time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.
If TUI went bust sure they would. The key is BALPA imhv. They say no and it gives Tui the right to go cheapo loco wet lease. That means no promotions for Tui FO.
As long as DEC doesn't impact any upgrades planned then FO's can't complain - for sure there might be a squeeze but upgrades should continue
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 12:58
  #902 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by Lazydogg View Post


I am 100 percent certain I know what the TUI FOs I have spoken with today would say to that. Those same TUI FOs who have waited patiently for command opportunities that are scarce enough as it is. Apparently some of them (up until 1330ish today) have heard nothing yet from the CC. If thatís true, itís a disgrace in my opinion. If TCX pilots want to join TUI then they should be joining at the bottom of the list as FOs like the existing guys and girls did. Some of the FOs donít even know if the CRB has sat yet, and what it all means in terms of their potential career progression going forward.
I have always shrugged my shoulders and said ďdecent career move canít knock itĒ when many an FO Iíve flown with over the last number of years has said they are joining TUI. For whatís itís worth I wonít be anymore if this shambles goes ahead. I wish no bad on the TCX guys, but I genuinely feel for the guys in the RHS at TUI.

Its absolutely wrong and you know it MACDO. Would this have happened in TCX if the roles were reversed?
I don't really want to get into a spat over this and if you read the next half dozen posts below your own, it covers pretty much all the views applicable to the circumstances. To answer your question directly, in my (long) service this has happened on two occasions which affected me directly. And to be honest, my feathers were ruffled for a short while, but at the time, the rapid expansion of the airline dragged everyone in its wake and the feathers were soon unruffled. If TUI was in a period of stagnation I would be in total agreement with you, but TUI is growing and with the demise of TCG it has the potential to grow very fast indeed. Or else J2 will suck up the business and everyone else will be up a creek. If you get new aircraft that require 50 Captains but can't train them yourself, this is a nil sum game for the existing FO's at worst, and a faster promotion at best. I can tell you one thing for sure, I would far rather go this route than suffer the indignity of creeping ACMI. Just ask the displaced TC crews, all recent, who's work was being done by ACMI. That is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. All the best.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 13:03
  #903 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 88
Air UK Leisure did this years ago (1991) when Air Europe went bust - took on a load of ex Air Europe B737 DEC and put them at the bottom of the seniority list.

Suitably qualified, and senior enough, individuals couldn’t upgrade or transfer.

Every suitable FO above first DEC at bottom of list should get passover pay - but that won’t happen.

i learned my lesson about the limitations of seniority lists at an early stage of my career.

Company can do what it wants - at least you know where you stand now.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 13:35
  #904 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
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I donít recall any vote about DEC within TCX. In fact a significant number were taken on the DC10 fleet in MyTravel. More pertinently, a large and increasing proportion of TCX passengers were being flown by de-facto DEC and DE FOs belonging to ACMI contractors SmartLynx and Avion -to the extent that three bases (EMA/STN/BFS) had already closed for pilots. If abandoning this scheme meant scores of TUI internal promotions Iíd agree with the critics. But it wouldnít; the alternative is a career-smothering influx of ACMI, unlikely to be reversed.

Last edited by ShotOne; 11th Oct 2019 at 14:05.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 08:29
  #905 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 605
TUI need to be quick about this. A large number of TCX pilots are already on their way to new positions. A significant number will be getting start dates in the next couple of weeks.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 11:26
  #906 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the flare
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DEC is not fair. TUI seniority is like clown seniority these days. First they lock everyone on the 756 fleet and open the gates to less senior 737 pilots to move to 787 now they take DEC. All in the same breath as pension being cut, not a great pay deal and top dog CC member gets a management position. House of cards.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 18:01
  #907 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Age: 50
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Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes View Post
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps itís time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.
Not sure where you got that from but itís utter tosh. There has never been a vote on DECs at TCX!

To answer your question re role reversal, would TC guys have been happy if it happened during normal times, of course not. But these are unprecedented times, and I can categorically say that if the boot was on the other foot, and TCX guys had a choice of DECs and expanding the business, or digging the heels in and the business stagnating while cut throat competitors jumped in with 2 feet, I know which would have been the preferred option for the vast majority!
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 18:35
  #908 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,882
No axe to grind myself having bailed out three years ago and landed safely !

On the plus side, a chance for Tui to expand and absorb a good proportion of TCX business. On the down side the old spectre of DEC pissing off existing TUI right hand seaters. However it should be remembered that there has been significant progress down the seniority list for new commands over the last 2-3 years and as such there should not be many long serving FO's, ready for command, who are affected in the short term.

Never much liked the seniority system myself and as far I know, Tui still operate the 'one list' version rather than two lists, one for each seat.

Overall, I think the 'glass half full' approach will serve most pilots well. Hopefully, many TCX pilots are already finding jobs elsewhere in the industry.

Last edited by beamer; 12th Oct 2019 at 19:42.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 18:41
  #909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 605
It will be interesting to see what TUI are offering. They were charging £7000 a year (3 years, pre tax) for type ratings/OCC not so long ago. Combine that with the part year option on offer and I don't think a huge number of ex TCX pilots will be breaking the door down to get in.

There are lots of other things available.
763 jock is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2019, 10:16
  #910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
Posts: 102
TUI DEC NTR only ex TCX can apply!
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 14:16
  #911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: U.K
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Has all external recruitment other than ex-TCX stopped at Tui now? Is anyone other than ex-TCX starting anytime soon?
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 17:29
  #912 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Originally Posted by macdo View Post
I think if you read the communication released by TUI and by their CC it is clear that they are taking the 50 TCX skippers on because they don't have the training capacity to promote enough FO's into the left seats created by the sudden rapid and unexpected expansion of their s20 operation.
Herein is what the majority of the workforce are struggling with.

How long is it from an interview, to a job offer, to a full 737 TR, to line training over the winter where training is already at maximum capacity and there is fewer sectors available compared to an already 737 TR’ed command ready FO?

Expansion is good news, don’t get me wrong but I’m not sure the company are going down the right path with regard to the timeframe available for Summer 20.




Last edited by EdnaClouds; 17th Oct 2019 at 17:40.
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 17:58
  #913 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
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Indeed, if limited training capacity is the justification, why is it restricted to TCX who are almost all needing a full type rating ... while there are many very experienced type rated captains, some of whom are under threat of redundancy or significant upheaval, who would leap at the opportunity, and burden the training capacity far less, or TUI copilots who could upgrade, and be replaced by external type rated FOs.
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 20:08
  #914 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Almost horizontal
Posts: 120
Is it even legal to discriminate in such an overt way? Tesco are recruiting for shelf stackers but only ex-Asda employees can apply - it’s the same thing in my eyes. In fact, thinking about it, it’s even worse because TUi are limiting their DEC recruitment to pilots from only one employer who are not even rated on the TUi types. I think if I was in the market for a DEC position and not ex-Tcx I’d have a very strong legal case, I’m even more amazed that BALPA seem happy with this arrangement.
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 22:19
  #915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
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Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes View Post
Is it even legal to discriminate in such an overt way? Tesco are recruiting for shelf stackers but only ex-Asda employees can apply - itís the same thing in my eyes. In fact, thinking about it, itís even worse because TUi are limiting their DEC recruitment to pilots from only one employer who are not even rated on the TUi types. I think if I was in the market for a DEC position and not ex-Tcx Iíd have a very strong legal case, Iím even more amazed that BALPA seem happy with this arrangement.
They get around it one way or the other. Must be available immediately. Must have previous IT charter experience. Must have CAT C airfield experience. Must have flown an Boeing 321 NG within the last month.

It's a dirty game. Been in it for 30 years.

763 jock is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2019, 03:59
  #916 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coast to Coast...
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Indeed, if limited training capacity is the justification, why is it restricted to TCX who are almost all needing a full type rating ... while there are many very experienced type rated captains, some of whom are under threat of redundancy or significant upheaval, who would leap at the opportunity, and burden the training capacity far less, or TUI copilots who could upgrade, and be replaced by external type rated FOs.
This is gonna get really messy. Not doubting anyone's professionalism or skill but older people with a new TR especially if they've never flown a Boeing before is generally speaking, a bad recipe and one that breeds resentment amongst high time on type FOs. CRM issues will creep in if not handled carefully. Not a problem at some carriers but in a seniority driven, age-old UK company this will be complex. Also, in case of a downturn and job losses (unlikely I agree) I would imagine a former TCX Captain would have to be made redundant (instead of being demoted) before a high ranking TUI FO?
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 04:23
  #917 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 1,995
never flown a Boeing
Don't think you have the right argument here. As I understand it they are recruiting TCX flight crew along with their Airbus aircraft as there are no spare B738 easily available to capture the unsatisfied demand next year. TUI training couldn't cope with 50 conversion courses this winter anyway....
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 07:08
  #918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Almost horizontal
Posts: 120
I’ve just checked the advert for ex-TCX DEC, it very specifically states “All positions will be on the B737”. You’ll be struggling to find any 737 experience with ex-Tcx pilots so there is most definitely a training burden associated with this.
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Old 18th Oct 2019, 08:01
  #919 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Here
Age: 50
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Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes View Post
Iíve just checked the advert for ex-TCX DEC, it very specifically states ďAll positions will be on the B737Ē. Youíll be struggling to find any 737 experience with ex-Tcx pilots so there is most definitely a training burden associated with this.
Of course there will be a training burden. And no most TCX guys wonít have 737 time, but what they will have is 1000s of Boeing hours, massive experience flying the same routes from the same places. For an airline that NEEDS to expand that is manner from heaven.

Youíve made it quite obvious that itís a huge problem to you, so for that reason I genuinely hope it is managed well and your arenít as disadvantaged as you obviously fear. If it is well managed then itís an opportunity for all.

That said, the deal is so unappealing in many respects you may well get your wish anyway!
Daily Dalaman Dave is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2019, 10:12
  #920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: france
Posts: 7
Hi guys

I have an assessment day next month. If anybody is reading this who went to this type of selection during the last round of recruitment with Thomson then I'd really appreciate some feedbacks on what to expect to aid my preparation. Has anybody been to their current assessments already or do you have one soon? Available via PM if needed

I'm particularly interested in what the technical test entails. ATPL theory or aptitude/maths verbal reasoning or a combination of both? Maybe type specific questions on type?

Thank you in advance for your help,

Good flights to all !
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