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Thomson recruitment.

Old 11th Oct 2019, 07:01
  #901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,035
Seen why they have done it but totally disagree with it. Always saw it coming this though TBH.
what if another credit crunch happens or the Brexit things explodes? Another 5yrs waiting! With guys junior to you making a lot more cash and holding Lhs.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 08:11
  #902 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 606
There are no Boeing pilots from TCX. It has been all Airbus for a while. A handful might be able to do a quick LPC to get the 757 renewed. But only a few.

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Old 11th Oct 2019, 09:15
  #903 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Almost horizontal
Posts: 111
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps it’s time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 10:15
  #904 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Braintree
Posts: 15
In the knowledge of how much this has already ruffled the FO’s feathers at TUI, I’d be very surprised if any TCX DEC would even want to set foot into the left hand seat of a TUI aircraft. They’re not going to be the most popular of people that’s for sure, as many senior FO’s have waited patiently for their turn in what has always been traditionally a legacy seniority based airline.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 11:02
  #905 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Derby
Posts: 25
Business is business. If the airline can come up with a plan to manage this expansion then it will be good for everyone. Some might think they have been disadvantaged in the short term but in the long term it should mean more job security. If the airline cannot manage it the alternative is to give the work to a third party operator and in that case no one in the company will benefit. If it is well handled I don't think anyone ex-Thomas Cook should have any fears about joining TUI.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 11:47
  #906 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: up up up
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by twogoodstarts View Post
In the knowledge of how much this has already ruffled the FOís feathers at TUI, Iíd be very surprised if any TCX DEC would even want to set foot into the left hand seat of a TUI aircraft. Theyíre not going to be the most popular of people thatís for sure, as many senior FOís have waited patiently for their turn in what has always been traditionally a legacy seniority based airline.
Not true.

Thomas Cook pilots will be welcomed into TUI with open arms.

At TUI, been through loads of mergers and changes and the pilots from the Ďotherí company are never blamed.

I and others look forwards to meeting any new pilots from Thomas Cook and hope it works out for them.

This is an unusual situation and the rapid and huge planned TUI expansion wouldnít be happening if Thomas Cook hadnít gone bust.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 11:57
  #907 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Walmington-on-Sea
Posts: 7
Also true, itís undoubtedly ruffled a few feathers but I think we can all say as TUI FOs we would extend the same courtesy and professionalism towards whoever occupies the LHS. Whilst I wonít fly with any of them on the 787 (that would cause a riot!) I look forward to meeting our new ex-TCX colleagues and hope you are very happy here. Youíll have to give up the Airbus for a right shed though 🤪
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 12:05
  #908 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,632
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes View Post
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps itís time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.
If TUI went bust sure they would. The key is BALPA imhv. They say no and it gives Tui the right to go cheapo loco wet lease. That means no promotions for Tui FO.
As long as DEC doesn't impact any upgrades planned then FO's can't complain - for sure there might be a squeeze but upgrades should continue
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 12:58
  #909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: uk
Posts: 733
Originally Posted by Lazydogg View Post


I am 100 percent certain I know what the TUI FOs I have spoken with today would say to that. Those same TUI FOs who have waited patiently for command opportunities that are scarce enough as it is. Apparently some of them (up until 1330ish today) have heard nothing yet from the CC. If thatís true, itís a disgrace in my opinion. If TCX pilots want to join TUI then they should be joining at the bottom of the list as FOs like the existing guys and girls did. Some of the FOs donít even know if the CRB has sat yet, and what it all means in terms of their potential career progression going forward.
I have always shrugged my shoulders and said ďdecent career move canít knock itĒ when many an FO Iíve flown with over the last number of years has said they are joining TUI. For whatís itís worth I wonít be anymore if this shambles goes ahead. I wish no bad on the TCX guys, but I genuinely feel for the guys in the RHS at TUI.

Its absolutely wrong and you know it MACDO. Would this have happened in TCX if the roles were reversed?
I don't really want to get into a spat over this and if you read the next half dozen posts below your own, it covers pretty much all the views applicable to the circumstances. To answer your question directly, in my (long) service this has happened on two occasions which affected me directly. And to be honest, my feathers were ruffled for a short while, but at the time, the rapid expansion of the airline dragged everyone in its wake and the feathers were soon unruffled. If TUI was in a period of stagnation I would be in total agreement with you, but TUI is growing and with the demise of TCG it has the potential to grow very fast indeed. Or else J2 will suck up the business and everyone else will be up a creek. If you get new aircraft that require 50 Captains but can't train them yourself, this is a nil sum game for the existing FO's at worst, and a faster promotion at best. I can tell you one thing for sure, I would far rather go this route than suffer the indignity of creeping ACMI. Just ask the displaced TC crews, all recent, who's work was being done by ACMI. That is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. All the best.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 13:03
  #910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 75
Air UK Leisure did this years ago (1991) when Air Europe went bust - took on a load of ex Air Europe B737 DEC and put them at the bottom of the seniority list.

Suitably qualified, and senior enough, individuals couldn’t upgrade or transfer.

Every suitable FO above first DEC at bottom of list should get passover pay - but that won’t happen.

i learned my lesson about the limitations of seniority lists at an early stage of my career.

Company can do what it wants - at least you know where you stand now.
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Old 11th Oct 2019, 13:35
  #911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,903
I donít recall any vote about DEC within TCX. In fact a significant number were taken on the DC10 fleet in MyTravel. More pertinently, a large and increasing proportion of TCX passengers were being flown by de-facto DEC and DE FOs belonging to ACMI contractors SmartLynx and Avion -to the extent that three bases (EMA/STN/BFS) had already closed for pilots. If abandoning this scheme meant scores of TUI internal promotions Iíd agree with the critics. But it wouldnít; the alternative is a career-smothering influx of ACMI, unlikely to be reversed.

Last edited by ShotOne; 11th Oct 2019 at 14:05.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 08:29
  #912 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 606
TUI need to be quick about this. A large number of TCX pilots are already on their way to new positions. A significant number will be getting start dates in the next couple of weeks.
763 jock is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2019, 11:26
  #913 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: In the flare
Posts: 47
DEC is not fair. TUI seniority is like clown seniority these days. First they lock everyone on the 756 fleet and open the gates to less senior 737 pilots to move to 787 now they take DEC. All in the same breath as pension being cut, not a great pay deal and top dog CC member gets a management position. House of cards.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 18:01
  #914 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Here
Age: 49
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by Too Few Stripes View Post
Have the ex-TCX pilots who overwhelmingly voted to stop any DECs at TCX now changed their minds on DEC? Amazing how quickly an opinion changes when the mortgage needs paying. Would TCX Pilots have been happy if the roles were reversed? Tough times for all but perhaps itís time to have a rethink on strict seniority in certain airlines and also the use of DEC where appropriate.
Not sure where you got that from but itís utter tosh. There has never been a vote on DECs at TCX!

To answer your question re role reversal, would TC guys have been happy if it happened during normal times, of course not. But these are unprecedented times, and I can categorically say that if the boot was on the other foot, and TCX guys had a choice of DECs and expanding the business, or digging the heels in and the business stagnating while cut throat competitors jumped in with 2 feet, I know which would have been the preferred option for the vast majority!
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 18:35
  #915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: uk
Posts: 1,855
No axe to grind myself having bailed out three years ago and landed safely !

On the plus side, a chance for Tui to expand and absorb a good proportion of TCX business. On the down side the old spectre of DEC pissing off existing TUI right hand seaters. However it should be remembered that there has been significant progress down the seniority list for new commands over the last 2-3 years and as such there should not be many long serving FO's, ready for command, who are affected in the short term.

Never much liked the seniority system myself and as far I know, Tui still operate the 'one list' version rather than two lists, one for each seat.

Overall, I think the 'glass half full' approach will serve most pilots well. Hopefully, many TCX pilots are already finding jobs elsewhere in the industry.

Last edited by beamer; 12th Oct 2019 at 19:42.
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Old 12th Oct 2019, 18:41
  #916 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 606
It will be interesting to see what TUI are offering. They were charging £7000 a year (3 years, pre tax) for type ratings/OCC not so long ago. Combine that with the part year option on offer and I don't think a huge number of ex TCX pilots will be breaking the door down to get in.

There are lots of other things available.
763 jock is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2019, 10:16
  #917 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
Posts: 84
TUI DEC NTR only ex TCX can apply!
midnight cruiser is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2019, 14:16
  #918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: U.K
Posts: 56
Has all external recruitment other than ex-TCX stopped at Tui now? Is anyone other than ex-TCX starting anytime soon?
Sempre Volando is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2019, 17:29
  #919 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by macdo View Post
I think if you read the communication released by TUI and by their CC it is clear that they are taking the 50 TCX skippers on because they don't have the training capacity to promote enough FO's into the left seats created by the sudden rapid and unexpected expansion of their s20 operation.
Herein is what the majority of the workforce are struggling with.

How long is it from an interview, to a job offer, to a full 737 TR, to line training over the winter where training is already at maximum capacity and there is fewer sectors available compared to an already 737 TR’ed command ready FO?

Expansion is good news, don’t get me wrong but I’m not sure the company are going down the right path with regard to the timeframe available for Summer 20.




Last edited by EdnaClouds; 17th Oct 2019 at 17:40.
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Old 17th Oct 2019, 17:58
  #920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: where I lay my hat
Posts: 84
Indeed, if limited training capacity is the justification, why is it restricted to TCX who are almost all needing a full type rating ... while there are many very experienced type rated captains, some of whom are under threat of redundancy or significant upheaval, who would leap at the opportunity, and burden the training capacity far less, or TUI copilots who could upgrade, and be replaced by external type rated FOs.
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