Monarch in turbulence
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macdo, Three Lions, mudcity - we are probably all still barking up the same tree. I think we all know that the 'glory days' are gone. However, my best guess is that there are way more airline jobs available now than were the case in the past in the UK. Also, many of those are jet jobs and not turboprops. I am not sure I agree with the oft-stated view that this is a 'race to the bottom', but I loved the bit about the 'yellow jersey wearers'! There are certainly pressures on terms and conditions that did not exist in the past, but offsetting that the airline industry is open to many more people now than it has been in the past. No one wants casualties like this, but my best guess is that the overwhelming majority of Monarch outcasts will have jobs somewhere very quickly - many of them being good ones too. The Monarch guys enjoy a reputation for professionalism and that will do them no harm as the vultures circle to pick up pilots. A lot of companies are attracted by the idea of ready-made Airbus pilots just dropping from heaven - I am not sure, however, that the job offers will all be in places that people want to be.
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Yeah, you are right, there are now a lot more jet jobs for pilots to have in the UK and globally. The big difference is, when we did TP's as the entry point, generally you got a free type rating and a 3 year bond, which was fair enough, after which a jet job came along and another free rating with a 3 year bond. I'm absolutely sure that the 120k you have to pay upfront to get into the first job isn't a fair swop. I make this observation in the light of the number of FO's you meet who really struggle to make ends meet.
WRT the airlines waiting in the wings to snap up the unfortunates at MON, the deal offered to those FO's that have contacted my outfit has been less than generous. Whilst I'm sure there are jobs for all, most airlines find experienced FO's a touch indigestible when it comes to paying them properly, especially compared to a considerably cheaper cadet.
WRT the airlines waiting in the wings to snap up the unfortunates at MON, the deal offered to those FO's that have contacted my outfit has been less than generous. Whilst I'm sure there are jobs for all, most airlines find experienced FO's a touch indigestible when it comes to paying them properly, especially compared to a considerably cheaper cadet.
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Very interesting comments tubby and the highlight from the last few pages. I was involved albeit not with Monarch for 20 odd years at Luton and Monarch was the steady and reliable airline. Always safe and very welcoming.
Britannia moved on, hopefully Monarch can as well?
Britannia moved on, hopefully Monarch can as well?
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Yeah because Monarchs fleet still have that new plane smell. Aren't their757s 27 years old? Pot, kettle, black. And hasn't Jet2 grown and also made a profit? A proven and sustainable business model and in just over a decade have achieved ore than monarch has in half a century. Now they can't be all that bad. You're a funny bunch you lot. An evangelical lot when it comes to MON!
Monarch for very many years indeed, had & I would rather think, still has, to a very considerable extent, an exceptionally loyal & highly professional workforce in all departments. In the ideal world, you would like to think this would count for a great deal, unfortunately hard commercial pressures etc these days can so easily dictate otherwise. Those who work for & previously worked for Monarch, can justifiably feel very proud indeed of what they have done over the years. Whether this will count for a great deal with the current difficulties, remains to be seen.
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WRT Jet2 - perhaps it is not all that rosy there either.
Jet2.com. Good & bad news. Parent Dart Group announces FY2014 profit growth & FY2015 profit warning | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
Jet2.com. Good & bad news. Parent Dart Group announces FY2014 profit growth & FY2015 profit warning | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
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Sho me an airline where everything is continually great. Things may not be rosy but nobody will be ordering a memorial wreath for Jet2 any time soon, which is more than can be said for Monarch.
Monarch may have a loyal employee base. I'm sure id be loyal too if I was paid above market rates and had a job for life because The Family would always bail MON if the going got tough. Now the going is tough I wonder how loyal the workforce will be? Particularly those who see colleagues on the dole whilst new FO cadets are hired on cheap contracts a la flyBE.
Monarch may have a loyal employee base. I'm sure id be loyal too if I was paid above market rates and had a job for life because The Family would always bail MON if the going got tough. Now the going is tough I wonder how loyal the workforce will be? Particularly those who see colleagues on the dole whilst new FO cadets are hired on cheap contracts a la flyBE.
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Given this thread is with regard to Monarch and CargoOne's post re the plane ownership (rather than leasing) situation at Monarch I enquire as to the general thought regarding the Greybull potential injection of funds. Given that Greybull were involved in the Comet Electrical and Riley Snooker Halls financial woes I wonder why it would appear they are the only (vulture) fund who have seen a potential in an investment in the Monarch Group?
Is this a long term investment or for short term gain? In the short term the liquidation of MAEL, Cosmos, A300's, prime slots etc would surely realise a significant sum .... more than enough to equate to a reported £75 mil injection??
One hopes they are not in it for asset stripping however given their (Greybull) past record and the general feeling regarding prospects for future growth (admitted by Monarch themselves with regard to current downsizing) the interest of a little known fund should surely be looked at with a degree of trepidation.
Is this a long term investment or for short term gain? In the short term the liquidation of MAEL, Cosmos, A300's, prime slots etc would surely realise a significant sum .... more than enough to equate to a reported £75 mil injection??
One hopes they are not in it for asset stripping however given their (Greybull) past record and the general feeling regarding prospects for future growth (admitted by Monarch themselves with regard to current downsizing) the interest of a little known fund should surely be looked at with a degree of trepidation.
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They'll split off and wind down the airline so no pension deficit. Sell the prime slots then sell MAEL and the holiday side, then walk away with a tidy profit with ruined lives strewn throughout England. A sad state of affairs.
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Ineedthefull90
I think the negative forward guidance for FY15 is probably less negative now than at the time they (Dart Group) provided it. The economy is recovering at a faster rate than first thought, that will eventually filter north, fuel price futures for 2015 are way down and for a fuel hungry ageing fleet that is helpful. They have invested heavily in a new sim centre near Bradford which will cut their travel, hotel and duty time costs considerably v doing the same stuff in LGW
They will also gain from Monarch's withdrawal from EMA and reduced pricing pressure at LBA v Monarch.
They continue to manage the seasonality of their bookings by using % contracts, contractors and wet lease of peak summer capacity, i think they have both wide body and narrow body airbuses in over next summer plus additional 757
Tech issues, delays and associated bad press will continue of the back of Jurassic classics.
I don't have a feel for how it will pan out for Monarch, but its going to be hard work morphing from one segment to another but the rise in airline valuations this past couple of weeks must encourage the investors of a chance of a return and their risk exposures seems limited given the assets that they will acquire probably exceed their investment and i agree with others that MAEL will likely be sold
They will also gain from Monarch's withdrawal from EMA and reduced pricing pressure at LBA v Monarch.
They continue to manage the seasonality of their bookings by using % contracts, contractors and wet lease of peak summer capacity, i think they have both wide body and narrow body airbuses in over next summer plus additional 757
Tech issues, delays and associated bad press will continue of the back of Jurassic classics.
I don't have a feel for how it will pan out for Monarch, but its going to be hard work morphing from one segment to another but the rise in airline valuations this past couple of weeks must encourage the investors of a chance of a return and their risk exposures seems limited given the assets that they will acquire probably exceed their investment and i agree with others that MAEL will likely be sold
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Makes me want to cry! I am so glad the MPL guys are "back on track". Screw the rest of us, 10 years worth of Airline experience and it counts for nothing. Everyone is so concerned with helping CTC cadets everyone else is ignored and left with no choice but to drag their families literally kicking and screaming to live in the ME. My wife cries herself to sleep every night so you will to forgive me feeling a bit bitter about jobs I could have going to a bunch of rich kids who's only concern is to maintain their hobby of airline flying.
And what is even better news is that MPL cadets will soon be recruited direct on to the RHS of wide body aircraft, which basically means Virgin, so I guess I can now scrub that off my list of possible places to work. Virgin used to be something special and an airline to aspire to, but not anymore! This industry is a joke, experience actually counts against you and before some smart arse tries to justify all this by saying airlines like the CTC "product" and the cadets are well trained etc etc, don't kid yourself, it's because they are cheap. If this carries on there will no profession left for anyone.
Apologies, rant over.
And what is even better news is that MPL cadets will soon be recruited direct on to the RHS of wide body aircraft, which basically means Virgin, so I guess I can now scrub that off my list of possible places to work. Virgin used to be something special and an airline to aspire to, but not anymore! This industry is a joke, experience actually counts against you and before some smart arse tries to justify all this by saying airlines like the CTC "product" and the cadets are well trained etc etc, don't kid yourself, it's because they are cheap. If this carries on there will no profession left for anyone.
Apologies, rant over.
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I have been battered before on this forum for pointing out the impact of the flood of MPL cadets into the RHS. Enzo999 graphically describes the impact. I know for a fact he has already had 4 years in the sandpit as a result of airline failures. Whilst EZY may offer some hope for some non CTC Monarch guys a good number will be forced to revert to removing sand from their foreskins. 10 years into a career it is incredibly hard to be told you are not as valuable as zero hours cadets. But as I am sure some will say, money talks, and these guys are the cheap option for the airlines.