Monarch in turbulence

[WHYEYEMAN]

So if it was a case of you being asked whether you would be willing to delay your command course for a few months in order to allow some CPs to join the company who would otherwise have to move their entire families to some ****e-hole in the Middle East, your answer would be a firm 'No' as it was their fault for joining an airline (perhaps 10-20 years ago) that has become unsuccessful. I'm at a slightly different stage in my life to you I suspect. That's why I can't really have any respect for your position. Moving an entire family to another country is several orders of magnitude different from you waiting an extra few months for a command. And let's face it, Easy is a low experience airline. We could use these people.

[JaxofMarlow]

Bloody hell. What selfish and ignorant attitudes being displayed here. Some of the MON pilots, and the one I know well, had only just returned from years in Qatar having already worked for 3 failed airlines in the UK and Ireland. "Don't make their bad luck my bad luck". Unbelievable. It is this sort of attitude that makes me sick and I really hoped it wouldn't appear in this country. And as this is a MON thread why don't you take your ignorance and revolting thoughts elsewhere.

[JaxofMarlow]

Absolutely WHYEYEMAN. I am spitting feathers.

[WhyByFlier]

I have 4300 hours flying the A320 for Easyjet. I know a TC for MON who has been there for 18 years, been on the 320 for nearly 8 and has 4300 hours on type. MON are equally low on experience - I know a capt there with less than 4000 hours TT. I can happily verify this. So 9 months ago if easy had closed MAN and made all pilots redundant would the MON pilots have been happy and accommodating with them DECing them into MAN ahead of command ready FOs. A heavily unionised airline like MON? It's rhetorical, don't bother answering.

I don't have a problem with them getting anything but I do have a problem with me being penalised for it.

I know again, personally, MON Capts who left MON to join easy back when there were DECs. It's this lazy, lust for entitled regionality that causes this feeling - it doesn't happen anywhere else. An Ex's father was CFO for a major cargo airline - he had to spend years at a time in the Middle East, Germany, Singapore, Australia, Belgium and Ireland - as you can probably derive, he had a family too! I know lawyers, bankers, engineers, scientists and management consultants who've had to do and are doing the same. It's called life. I've had to do it with a family and family illness. Just got to get on with it and make your choice - I for example would do something else rather than go to the Middle East after considering it.

Sorry Jax, since you want to join easy so much I presume you applied for DEC many of the other times up to and including the last few weeks? Or would you rather I displaced myself again and went to NAP, OPO or AMS away from or displacing MY family, having given this company over 5 years loyalty, so you don't have to, having given them none? Please, justify it to me.

[Burpbot]

I'm not a big fan of prune but have the odd look! All I can say is this thread is about Monarch! Not EasyJet! I have heard of many people leaving easyJet for Monarch, up until now I have never heard of anyone leaving Monarch for easy! The deal easy currently offer certainly doesn't entice experienced labour!

If the people posting venomously on this thread are a reflection of crew at easy then I can't say I am that keen on joining easy! I however have friends at easy, most of whom are either keen to leave or go part time! They are however nice people and do not reflect the spite in several of the posters on this thread!

Your delusional if you think easyJet cares about you as an employee, your just a cog in a machine, they will do what suits them best.

Now can we start a new thread for all those who want to rant about easy??

[whoopie]

Bit of thread creep going on. I haven't posted or visited here for around ten years maybe. See things haven't changed - still full of small minded, self centred, my airline's better than your airline drivel.

[kick the tires]

Whyeyeman - question for you.

If your DEC's do arrive and there are vacancies at say MAN, do they go to LGW and let those on the MAN waiting list to move back to MAN?

As many have said, there is absolutely no need to rescue the unfortunate MON chaps at the expense of our own. Your assertion that it will delay our command pool by a few weeks/months is cobblers! If MON people take our command slots then they are permanently taken; when our expansion stops, it means that our people next on the list will then have to wait for their chance whilst the MON chaps are fat dumb and happy in the LHS!

[stiglet]

If easy want or need pilots then Monarch pilots would stand a better chance than most to get offerred a job; not a command ahead of qualified, experienced, existing F/O's. That's the way it always has been with the majority of airlines, isn't this what seniority is all about? They should join at the bottom like everyone else - unless DEC's are what is required, because of a lack of appropriate experience or because the upgrade F/O's decline the base move, in which case they should join below the F/O's waiting and ready for slots and command courses. I've been there; had a command with one airline then joined another at the bottom and worked my way up. I really don't see why Monarch pilots should be given priority simply because their airline is in trouble. There are many other commercial pilots out there who have been struggling for years.

[kick the tires]

JaxofMarlow wrote: Bloody hell. What selfish and ignorant attitudes being displayed here. Some of the MON pilots, and the one I know well, had only just returned from years in Qatar having already worked for 3 failed airlines in the UK and Ireland. "Don't make their bad luck my bad luck". Unbelievable. It is this sort of attitude that makes me sick and I really hoped it wouldn't appear in this country. And as this is a MON thread why don't you take your ignorance and revolting thoughts elsewhere.

JaxofMarlow, are you saying that peoples careers and advancement should be put on hold whenever another airline is in difficulty and their pilots want to jump ship?

[INeedTheFull90]

Sorry to sound unsympathetic. But if anyone does come across to the Big Easy, then I'd welcome them. However, they should NOT be given a regional base just because they will easily 'slot in'. Go where there's work and wait your turn on a transfer list, like the rest of us have to. It's bad enough seeing new hire cadets get sent to desirable regional bases when many of us with families have to commute. AMS/LIS/OPO/LGW should be a starting point just like it is for the rest of us.

[RHINO]

Could I ask the mods to rename this thread

'Easyjet First Officers in turbulence'

[JaxofMarlow]

I was not suggesting MON pilots should get priority in location over existing EZY pilots. I was just saying that if EZY want experienced pilots then why not MON pilots. Relocation is a fact of life for many and I wasn't saying MON pilots should be excluded from positions overseas if that is what EZY have available. My point was that some have already spent considerable periods overseas in pursuit of their career. And pointing out to me that other careers have to spend time overseas on their way to the top just proves my point. No other careers are so single company orientated. Time with company is only one facet of advancement when a company is considering promotion. Of as much importance is time in profession, experience and aptitude for the role. Some seem to be saying aviation should be exempt from this and only consider time in company.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

AMS/LIS/OPO/LGW should be a starting point just like it is for the rest of us.

Nice idea.

Ask any easyJet pilot what happened when 'GO' and easyJet merged - nice payout for the GO pilots, bases of choice, part-time contracts - all to the detriment of the existing easyJet pilots, many of whom had been asking for those very contracts and were refused.

So don't expect anything other than that which best suits the airline.

[WHYEYEMAN]

Over the next 5 years, easy will need circa 600 new captains. That's assuming zero retirements, leavers, people going part time or losing their medical.
I would foresee DEC's at LGW yes. Plenty of CPs are waiting to escape LGW and this would expedite that process.
Perhaps some of our wannabe CPs should 'get a grip' and improve their analytical skills before their command course. This would not represent a threat to your career and would make a huge difference to those affected at MON.

[stiglet]

Then let those affected at Monarch go to the back of the queue and not jump the queue.

[JaxofMarlow]

For a pilot with a command at MON a command at EZY is not jumping the queue. Subject to checks, it is maintenance of professional position. Yes, bottom of the command list but not as some are suggesting back to FO/Cadet.

[go around flaps15]

If there is 200 First Officers that have been deemed suitable for command at EZY then they are first in line for any command positions that become available. If there are no First Officers deemed suitable for a command position or perhaps not enough then the company would look at DECs?

Or have I missed something?

[JaxofMarlow]

What other professions operate within the confines of a single company to the exclusion of talent and skills outside. Pilots are professionals and ply their skills for a numerous companies across the world. If movement between companies always required you go to the bottom of the pack there would be no movement. When a consultant leaves a health authority he does not become a registrar at the next one. There is always a corporate hierarchy but this cannot and never will be to the exclusion of talent outside. If it did, then the only way to the top would be through length of service.

[Artie Fufkin]

Now I wonder, if it were the other way round. Let's say this time last year some Easy captains wanted DEC at Monarch. I wonder what the response might have been from your average Monarch pilot. I suspect the two word answer may have ended in "off".

[JaxofMarlow]

You might be right, but MON pilots don't run MON. If MON needed DEC then they would have done it. If they didn't, then they wouldn't. The pilots may have said something rude but it would have been irrelevant. There may well be a system in place in airlines that allows for identification of talent worthy of higher office, but as in all other businesses, this is not to the exclusion of rest of the world. Such waiting pools increase and decrease in size. It is the way of the business world.