Have around 300 pilots left RYR lately?
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I have heard that the popular bases are in the UK, Ireland, Spain and Italy, the others less so except to locals, so a Canaries base is comparatively easy to get. However, how you play it is up to you. Cynics may suggest you let mgmt know you don't want to go there in order to best secure it - they do seem like to cause as much upset of basing as they can.
Space pig, I think tho only believers of the propaganda are those pushing it! They're now as short of FOs as Capts, both now routinely doing 100/28. There will be no hours left for the winter schedule. I have heard a rumour that they don't have enough TREs to run the command and cadet courses. I'd be interested to know it that's true.
Space pig, I think tho only believers of the propaganda are those pushing it! They're now as short of FOs as Capts, both now routinely doing 100/28. There will be no hours left for the winter schedule. I have heard a rumour that they don't have enough TREs to run the command and cadet courses. I'd be interested to know it that's true.
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AS- Please may I disagree with you on one aspect? I'm not ill-informed, I have operated:
Longhaul, shorthaul, passengers, Cargo.
Worked for operators in Europe (LCC and Legacy), U.S., Middle east and finally Asia.
I have flown cold weather ops in Europe, LVP ops in Europe.
High altitude ops to Quito in Equador with heavy jet Aircraft.
worked in meters and feet in Russia in temperatures below -40
I am a Captain currently operating for a major Chinese Airline.
You may not like my views or indeed the way I express them, but I'm not ill-informed.
Longhaul, shorthaul, passengers, Cargo.
Worked for operators in Europe (LCC and Legacy), U.S., Middle east and finally Asia.
I have flown cold weather ops in Europe, LVP ops in Europe.
High altitude ops to Quito in Equador with heavy jet Aircraft.
worked in meters and feet in Russia in temperatures below -40
I am a Captain currently operating for a major Chinese Airline.
You may not like my views or indeed the way I express them, but I'm not ill-informed.
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Speed alive:
The popular bases are certainly Ireland and the UK (home bases for a large amount of pilots) aswell as the German/Dutch/Belgian bases (again home bases for alot of people). Also the sunnier places such as Malaga and Faro are popular. Think the canaries bases are somewhere in the middle due to their remoteness.
The less popular bases would be the eastern european and morroccan aswell as the far flung Italian and Greek and maybe some of the Spanish bases also.
However, unless perhaps you're coming as a DEC on the condition of getting a certain base, the whole thing generally tends to be a lottery - and unfortunately I would have to say that the general policy seems to be to NOT give pilots their preferred bases. Some get lucky but it generally takes an unreasonable amount of time to get a requested home base and you can expect to see new joiners get sent to your requested base long after you applied. This is in fact one of if not the biggest reason(s) that people get pissed off and leave.
Of course you could be one of the very few lucky ones who happen to get their base of choice quickly, but it's unlikely.
The popular bases are certainly Ireland and the UK (home bases for a large amount of pilots) aswell as the German/Dutch/Belgian bases (again home bases for alot of people). Also the sunnier places such as Malaga and Faro are popular. Think the canaries bases are somewhere in the middle due to their remoteness.
The less popular bases would be the eastern european and morroccan aswell as the far flung Italian and Greek and maybe some of the Spanish bases also.
However, unless perhaps you're coming as a DEC on the condition of getting a certain base, the whole thing generally tends to be a lottery - and unfortunately I would have to say that the general policy seems to be to NOT give pilots their preferred bases. Some get lucky but it generally takes an unreasonable amount of time to get a requested home base and you can expect to see new joiners get sent to your requested base long after you applied. This is in fact one of if not the biggest reason(s) that people get pissed off and leave.
Of course you could be one of the very few lucky ones who happen to get their base of choice quickly, but it's unlikely.
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Have around 300 pilots left RYR lately?
Does anyone have a credible (ie not "cos they're all *%#%*") theory for why they wouldn't give you a choice of base where it is commercially/operationally viable?
For all of their (many) faults - and here I speak only as a former consumer and interested CPL studying pilot - in any business a degree of employee satisfaction is desirable. I can't believe they are actively trying to piss their staff off? So what is the business sense in this?
For all of their (many) faults - and here I speak only as a former consumer and interested CPL studying pilot - in any business a degree of employee satisfaction is desirable. I can't believe they are actively trying to piss their staff off? So what is the business sense in this?
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I know nothing about Ryanair's management, but I would guess at the following:
1) Control
2) Ryanair open, expand and close bases all the time and therefore have to move pilots around accordingly. It doesn't suit them to have everyone happy and settled at their home base and not looking to move. If they put you somewhere you don't want, you won't be too upset when they move you again.
Whether it's worth losing as many pilots as they seem to just to accomplish the above is debatable so maybe there are other reasons, but I can't think of any.
1) Control
2) Ryanair open, expand and close bases all the time and therefore have to move pilots around accordingly. It doesn't suit them to have everyone happy and settled at their home base and not looking to move. If they put you somewhere you don't want, you won't be too upset when they move you again.
Whether it's worth losing as many pilots as they seem to just to accomplish the above is debatable so maybe there are other reasons, but I can't think of any.
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I would say that it's pretty much as above. To keep things fluid, keep people ready to move for when the next base shuts or the next 2 close etc.
There's always the more #$~$# theory which can't be discredited of a divide and conquer element.
There's always the more #$~$# theory which can't be discredited of a divide and conquer element.
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I had a friend who told the following story. An Irish guy based in Spain and a Spanish guy based in Ireland. They requested a straight swap. Free of charge. No hassle. Refused. they both left. Go figure.
Is it still the same attitude? No idea. Ask an insider.
Is it still the same attitude? No idea. Ask an insider.
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Rat 5, I saw the same sort of thing first hand repeatedly and know several people still in that situation. It appears deliberate. The question is, is a way of dangling a carrot for a couple of years ("do everything we say and make no waves and we'll base you where you want"), or is it plain malice. Jury's out on that one... What seems to be the norm, though, is to base cadets for their first two years anywhere, then give them the base they wanted. Then, on promotion, send them out again to their least preferred base, even though their preferred, current base is short of Captains, and bring them back another two years down the line, even though that invariably means bringing in other people to the base in question that want to be somewhere else too. And swaps are flatly refused. Hence my suspicion it's being used as a carrot (and stick).
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It seems to me that denial of base transfers is a tactic which results in being seen to "give something" to the pilots when things are becoming tough for the company. In other words, keep something in reserve, at zero cost to the company, but enormous personal cost to "employees".
From Wikipedia:
"Stockholm syndrome is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness."
From Wikipedia:
"Stockholm syndrome is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness."
Last edited by Al Murdoch; 13th May 2014 at 18:10.
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I'd kinda disagree that they give FO's their preferred base after 2 years. I was an FO for 3.5 years and never got my desired base, despite countless, and i do mean countless, cadets getting based there in that time. And probably the majority of those did not even want to be based there. Anyway....one of the things they seem to dislike is FO's not wanting to do their upgrade because they are settled and comfortable in their home base.
However, I do find its possible to move base after a year or so in your current base - just NOT to a base in your home country. So if you're a single guy looking to experience living in a couple of different European countries like I was/did/am still doing it's not all bad. If you're a married guy with kids commuting home on your days off and forever trying unsuccessfully to get a transfer to your home base, it absolutely sucks.
Sigh.
Welcome to the mad house.
However, I do find its possible to move base after a year or so in your current base - just NOT to a base in your home country. So if you're a single guy looking to experience living in a couple of different European countries like I was/did/am still doing it's not all bad. If you're a married guy with kids commuting home on your days off and forever trying unsuccessfully to get a transfer to your home base, it absolutely sucks.
Sigh.
Welcome to the mad house.
Last edited by McNulty; 13th May 2014 at 18:15.
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I had never heard of an airline where most FOs were actively avoiding promotion - most companies have quite the opposite. But to have to introduce a policy of getting rid of those who didn't try for promotion within five years is a new one, and quite telling.
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Bases
Working for another LCC it is exactly the same with bases. Although we have a transfer list, I've watched cadets get jobs at my local base (which I very much doubt they want to be at) whilst I'm stuck on the other side of the country. Still, why p-ss off one person when you can p-ss off two? I do wonder why they do this, but still we have a defined transfer process at least.
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Just to nip this 'thread drift' in the bud . The lastest rumour is that there are 200 pilots at anytime working their notice in RYR . It has been like this throughout the winter. If this is true then the number leaving/left is way more than 300.
Interesting article in an Irish paper today
Ryanair ?unable? to attract tech talent it needs | Irish Examiner
Basically RYR can't seen to attract IT people despite offering 'attractive packages' ( RYR's words) ......
They still don't get it ......crap T &C's .....mean no staff . I wonder how long the shareholders will tolerate the ostrich like attitude of RYR to staff costs ...
Interesting article in an Irish paper today
Ryanair ?unable? to attract tech talent it needs | Irish Examiner
Basically RYR can't seen to attract IT people despite offering 'attractive packages' ( RYR's words) ......
They still don't get it ......crap T &C's .....mean no staff . I wonder how long the shareholders will tolerate the ostrich like attitude of RYR to staff costs ...
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RYR tried to make the IT department like Google - slides from floor to floor, XBox arcades, oversize chess boards and so on. That explains why most of the crew room IT is so unreliable; they're too busy playing games to get essential flight planning computers and printers to work correctly.
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The Irish Government yesterday announced measures to overhaul non-union worker rights laws.
"Workers are to be given a new way to ensure they get a fair deal from their employer, even if their employer does not recognise trade unions.
The government has announced plans to revamp the laws on industrial relations so that non-unionised workers can go to the Labour Court.
The Court will then be able to issue rulings on employers, even if they refuse to recognise trade unions or allow collective bargaining."
I wonder will this make even the slightest difference in the aviation industry.
"Workers are to be given a new way to ensure they get a fair deal from their employer, even if their employer does not recognise trade unions.
The government has announced plans to revamp the laws on industrial relations so that non-unionised workers can go to the Labour Court.
The Court will then be able to issue rulings on employers, even if they refuse to recognise trade unions or allow collective bargaining."
I wonder will this make even the slightest difference in the aviation industry.
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Ryanair has axed 222 routes for this summer - Tourism News | Travel & Tourism Industry News | The Irish Times - Wed, May 14, 2014
"So if the staff leave we will just cancel lots of routes and for God's sake make sure the shareholders and media don't figure it out "
. It worked for the Olympics in 2012 !!!...allegedly
"So if the staff leave we will just cancel lots of routes and for God's sake make sure the shareholders and media don't figure it out "
. It worked for the Olympics in 2012 !!!...allegedly