Have around 300 pilots left RYR lately?
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THIS is what O'Leary is telling his investors at flashy conferences in London........
“Never since Noah floated the ark has there ever been a shortage of people who get paid about 150,000 euros to legally fly no more than 900 hours,” O’Leary said.
This a quote only yesterday in BLOOMBERG reference:
Taming Ryanair Becomes Personal Gamble for Tough-Talking O?Leary - Bloomberg
Surely this is a job for the 'trade descriptions act' , false advertising, just plain lies and deceit. New commanders with Ryanair earning one third of that and living in some godforsaken place in deepest darkest Eastern Europe on a 5/3 roster. Yeah he's right, never has there been a shortage of wannabes HOPING for the dream of these ficticiouly false salaries but the truth is vastly immeasurably inconceivably hugely different form O'Leary's lies that he spouts to journalists and investors.
This a quote only yesterday in BLOOMBERG reference:
Taming Ryanair Becomes Personal Gamble for Tough-Talking O?Leary - Bloomberg
Surely this is a job for the 'trade descriptions act' , false advertising, just plain lies and deceit. New commanders with Ryanair earning one third of that and living in some godforsaken place in deepest darkest Eastern Europe on a 5/3 roster. Yeah he's right, never has there been a shortage of wannabes HOPING for the dream of these ficticiouly false salaries but the truth is vastly immeasurably inconceivably hugely different form O'Leary's lies that he spouts to journalists and investors.
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3500..net
For a lot of people they would consider that a good net wage and this is why pilots don't get the sympathy vote when industrial action looms, of course for a profession its along way from a good wage, but at least the type of contract your on allows you to offset your training costs against tax, which you wouldn't be able to do if you weren't sort off self employed, pay for a type rating to join say Jet2 and if your employed directly or by Xenon/Zenon then it a 100% hit on your bottom line.
So see it for what it is, not what you would like it to be, get your 1000 hours, learn your skill, move on, its cynical i know, but its cynical on both sides, we were never educated to approach employment for our dream job, of get in asap, get out asap, but the smart guys/girls do just that, oh and try and enjoy it
For a lot of people they would consider that a good net wage and this is why pilots don't get the sympathy vote when industrial action looms, of course for a profession its along way from a good wage, but at least the type of contract your on allows you to offset your training costs against tax, which you wouldn't be able to do if you weren't sort off self employed, pay for a type rating to join say Jet2 and if your employed directly or by Xenon/Zenon then it a 100% hit on your bottom line.
So see it for what it is, not what you would like it to be, get your 1000 hours, learn your skill, move on, its cynical i know, but its cynical on both sides, we were never educated to approach employment for our dream job, of get in asap, get out asap, but the smart guys/girls do just that, oh and try and enjoy it
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Yet again, Fryup, you show your true colours - you expect the Ryanair PILOT Group to approach the cabin crew. You don't approach the RPG yourself, and you certainly make no effort to form a cabin crew body. You just want to ride on the backs of the pilots, most of whom are facing most of the same problems as the cabin crew contractors but with the added issue of debts of over £100k.
I'm all for cabin crew fighting the RYR management - I sympathise with their situation, especially the contractors, but if the RYR pilots are relatively powerless to improve their own positions, what makes you think they have the time, money or influence to improve yours?
If you want you circumstances to get better, then like everyone else in the world, you'll have to fight for it yourselves. Slagging off your colleagues and being bitter about not being a pilot is going to get you nothing but the contempt of the pilots who currently sympathise with you.
I'm all for cabin crew fighting the RYR management - I sympathise with their situation, especially the contractors, but if the RYR pilots are relatively powerless to improve their own positions, what makes you think they have the time, money or influence to improve yours?
If you want you circumstances to get better, then like everyone else in the world, you'll have to fight for it yourselves. Slagging off your colleagues and being bitter about not being a pilot is going to get you nothing but the contempt of the pilots who currently sympathise with you.
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I remeber a few years back MOL wanted to fly with one pilot and a trained stewardess would take the RHS if complications arrise. How about after the aircraft gets to the cruise, the FO goes down the back and helps sell phone and scratch cards along with expensive drinks and food then returns to the flight deck at TOD.
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I still think that you guys should publicly withdraw smooth landings until a contract is in place and union recognition is obtained.
It wouldn't make any difference to be honest but just go public with why the landings are never smooth with Ryanair.
It wouldn't make any difference to be honest but just go public with why the landings are never smooth with Ryanair.
That would be a daft thing to do.
I presume you have fleet-wide FDM so if you are identified as someone who is over-stressing the gear then I would expect to be shown the door pretty bloody sharpish.
I presume you have fleet-wide FDM so if you are identified as someone who is over-stressing the gear then I would expect to be shown the door pretty bloody sharpish.
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I still think that you guys should publicly withdraw smooth landings until a contract is in place and union recognition is obtained.
It wouldn't make any difference to be honest but just go public with why the landings are never smooth with Ryanair.
It wouldn't make any difference to be honest but just go public with why the landings are never smooth with Ryanair.
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THE LIES
“Never since Noah floated the ark has there ever been a shortage of people who get paid about 150,000 euros to legally fly no more than 900 hours,” O’Leary said.
This from a very recent Bloomberg article.
Even though the reality is vastly different, (calculate one third of that for a recently upgraded captain and you'll be pretty close to the mark).
These are the lies that investors are being told about pilots at flashy conferences.
This is why Ryanair have to resort to yet more cunning 'back you into a corner' tactics of bribing the FO's an extra tenner an hour to enrol into the command course.
This is why pilots are leaving.
This from a very recent Bloomberg article.
Even though the reality is vastly different, (calculate one third of that for a recently upgraded captain and you'll be pretty close to the mark).
These are the lies that investors are being told about pilots at flashy conferences.
This is why Ryanair have to resort to yet more cunning 'back you into a corner' tactics of bribing the FO's an extra tenner an hour to enrol into the command course.
This is why pilots are leaving.
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Hundreds of pilots take flight from Ryanair with more planning exit
20 April 2014 by Nicola Cooke
Hundreds of Ryanair pilots have left the airline in the last 12 to 18 months, and hundreds more plan to leave in the next 12 months, according to information acquired by the Ryanair Pilot Group (RPG).
Between 300 and 500 Ryanair pilots are understood to have left the airline in the last 18 months to take up jobs with the new transatlantic service provider Norwegian Air Shuttle, as well as with Middle Eastern airlines and other operators such as Thomson and Wizz Air.
In a new survey of Ryanair pilots which was carried out by RPG and generated responses from 1,128 of the airline's pilots, almost one third said they planned to leave the Irish-owned airline within the next 12 months. That figure jumped to 50 per cent when it included pilots planning to leave within in the next two years.
Two in three said they might reconsider their plans to leave the airline if issues around pay, treatment and respect were improved. A Ryanair spokesman disputed the RPG's figures for pilots who have left the airline, and said the company currently employs over 2,500 pilots. In a financial statement in March 2013, Ryanair listed their pilot numbers at 2,625.
In a memo sent to all pilots on April 11 by Michael Hickey, Ryanair's group director of operations which has been seen for this newspaper, the company appears to offer new incentives to pilots in order to retain them. These include an optional extra payment of Euro 10 per scheduled block [flying] hour for first officers who are enrolled in the command upgrade programme (to become captains) after May 1, and an improved co-pilots' ''stable earnings programme. The airline is ''also looking at the option of offering additional salaried contracts, through both Ryanair and third parties, according to Hickey's memo.
Ryanair spokesman Robin Kiely said the company did ''not comment on departures or recruitment.
''We have a waiting list of over 2,000 qualified pilots hoping to join Ryanair on an ongoing basis, he said. ''New base [employment] agreements included pay increases, roster improvements and other benefits, which is why we have pilots waiting to join at a time when pilot unions across Europe are negotiating job cuts and pay cuts in Iberia, SAS, Air Berlin and Alitalia, to name a few.
The company would not provide a breakdown of the split of captains and first officers employed as pilots. The former are senior to, and more experienced than, the latter.
RPG chairman Evert van Zwol said, based on information provided by RPG members from across the Ryanair network, ''we have very strong evidence to believe that up to 500 pilots have left the company in the last 18 months.
'
'There may be many reasons for pilots leaving, but our recent survey and feedback from pilots suggest it is due to dissatisfaction with terms and conditions of employment, and how pilots are treated by Ryanair, he said. ''The survey provides worrying information about the intentions of current pilots to leave Ryanair, which we would like to see addressed”.
20 April 2014 by Nicola Cooke
Hundreds of Ryanair pilots have left the airline in the last 12 to 18 months, and hundreds more plan to leave in the next 12 months, according to information acquired by the Ryanair Pilot Group (RPG).
Between 300 and 500 Ryanair pilots are understood to have left the airline in the last 18 months to take up jobs with the new transatlantic service provider Norwegian Air Shuttle, as well as with Middle Eastern airlines and other operators such as Thomson and Wizz Air.
In a new survey of Ryanair pilots which was carried out by RPG and generated responses from 1,128 of the airline's pilots, almost one third said they planned to leave the Irish-owned airline within the next 12 months. That figure jumped to 50 per cent when it included pilots planning to leave within in the next two years.
Two in three said they might reconsider their plans to leave the airline if issues around pay, treatment and respect were improved. A Ryanair spokesman disputed the RPG's figures for pilots who have left the airline, and said the company currently employs over 2,500 pilots. In a financial statement in March 2013, Ryanair listed their pilot numbers at 2,625.
In a memo sent to all pilots on April 11 by Michael Hickey, Ryanair's group director of operations which has been seen for this newspaper, the company appears to offer new incentives to pilots in order to retain them. These include an optional extra payment of Euro 10 per scheduled block [flying] hour for first officers who are enrolled in the command upgrade programme (to become captains) after May 1, and an improved co-pilots' ''stable earnings programme. The airline is ''also looking at the option of offering additional salaried contracts, through both Ryanair and third parties, according to Hickey's memo.
Ryanair spokesman Robin Kiely said the company did ''not comment on departures or recruitment.
''We have a waiting list of over 2,000 qualified pilots hoping to join Ryanair on an ongoing basis, he said. ''New base [employment] agreements included pay increases, roster improvements and other benefits, which is why we have pilots waiting to join at a time when pilot unions across Europe are negotiating job cuts and pay cuts in Iberia, SAS, Air Berlin and Alitalia, to name a few.
The company would not provide a breakdown of the split of captains and first officers employed as pilots. The former are senior to, and more experienced than, the latter.
RPG chairman Evert van Zwol said, based on information provided by RPG members from across the Ryanair network, ''we have very strong evidence to believe that up to 500 pilots have left the company in the last 18 months.
'
'There may be many reasons for pilots leaving, but our recent survey and feedback from pilots suggest it is due to dissatisfaction with terms and conditions of employment, and how pilots are treated by Ryanair, he said. ''The survey provides worrying information about the intentions of current pilots to leave Ryanair, which we would like to see addressed”.
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I think I have been misunderstood.
The Cathay Pacific cabin crew used the statement "they were withdrawing smiles" as a very effecive negotiating tool with management, of course it was just a statement for the public to swallow, nothing changed in reality.
In this case with Ryanair's current PR changes, some kind of Pilot statement could also be effective.
I am of course not suggesting any real changes to the way anybody does things during critical phases of flight, that would be "barking".
The Cathay Pacific cabin crew used the statement "they were withdrawing smiles" as a very effecive negotiating tool with management, of course it was just a statement for the public to swallow, nothing changed in reality.
In this case with Ryanair's current PR changes, some kind of Pilot statement could also be effective.
I am of course not suggesting any real changes to the way anybody does things during critical phases of flight, that would be "barking".
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Confused.
This thread is about 300 (?) pilots leaving Ryanair isn't it?
Why people feel the need to discuss the quality, or not, of the Ryanair training department is beyond me.
Surely if the numbers of pilots leaving are of the order being discussed, it shows only one thing: Ryanair are NOT an employer of choice for many.
It doesn't necessarily always come down to glib soundbites at investor days from a CEO about fantasy salaries - that he knows the vast majority of his crews will NEVER earn. Far from it in fact.
It boils down to tolerance, professionalism and respect. Once the gloss has worn off the fact that "I'm a jet pilot", many are dissatisfied with the way they are treated and the misery that their lives have become.
A fish rots from the head down, and by extension it is the same with any poor corporate culture.
Long may any exodus continue.
Why people feel the need to discuss the quality, or not, of the Ryanair training department is beyond me.
Surely if the numbers of pilots leaving are of the order being discussed, it shows only one thing: Ryanair are NOT an employer of choice for many.
It doesn't necessarily always come down to glib soundbites at investor days from a CEO about fantasy salaries - that he knows the vast majority of his crews will NEVER earn. Far from it in fact.
It boils down to tolerance, professionalism and respect. Once the gloss has worn off the fact that "I'm a jet pilot", many are dissatisfied with the way they are treated and the misery that their lives have become.
A fish rots from the head down, and by extension it is the same with any poor corporate culture.
Long may any exodus continue.
Remember this is a rumour network. Much of what you read, I beleive, is hyped up and ryanair bashing; as is 'and the misery that their lives have become'. Get real. We still have the job lots of people aspire to. Many of those posting on here have a vested interest in stirring things up.
If you're in and you don't like it, make the most of it and leave when you can; if you're not in and don't like it, don't join. Good luck to those who are in and want to stay. Competition is always good for the industry.
If you're in and you don't like it, make the most of it and leave when you can; if you're not in and don't like it, don't join. Good luck to those who are in and want to stay. Competition is always good for the industry.
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Stiglet:
You have it all wrong, this "vote with your feet" thing is bull....
All countries in Europe have laws allowing trade union representation for employees that wish. Ryanair have manipulated the system in Europe to prevent this legal right.
Whilst I am happy that 300+ guys have left, they should not be forced to go elsewhere to find a company that complies correctly with the law.
You have it all wrong, this "vote with your feet" thing is bull....
All countries in Europe have laws allowing trade union representation for employees that wish. Ryanair have manipulated the system in Europe to prevent this legal right.
Whilst I am happy that 300+ guys have left, they should not be forced to go elsewhere to find a company that complies correctly with the law.
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Stiglet
Narrow a Runway will be telling everyone how wonderful his job is in a minute. I'm surprised he hasn't done this already as it's a common feature in many of his postings.
Anyway, I'm only jealous, as he will undoubtably claim. I probably am, in a way, as I would like to have a better position than the one that I have at the moment. However this may also also be down to the 'grass is always greener' bug that most of us pilots appear to catch. I'm also aware that I'm not exactly in a bad position either.
I will agree with something, this thread is about pilots leaving FR. Not their training department, training standards, pilot ability, MOL's ramblings or an opportunity to kick the **** out of Ryanair by every second poster. But this is pprune, and keeping to the point is a common challenge.
I will say one thing about the subject at hand. While the official number of resignations may never be known, it certainly feels much more than the 'exodus' a number of years back when Emirates recruited en mass. And to be perfectly blunt, I can't see much let up as the company appear to be doing little to nothing in order to appease it's pilots. This summer will be an interesting one, so I'm told.
Anyway, I'm only jealous, as he will undoubtably claim. I probably am, in a way, as I would like to have a better position than the one that I have at the moment. However this may also also be down to the 'grass is always greener' bug that most of us pilots appear to catch. I'm also aware that I'm not exactly in a bad position either.
I will agree with something, this thread is about pilots leaving FR. Not their training department, training standards, pilot ability, MOL's ramblings or an opportunity to kick the **** out of Ryanair by every second poster. But this is pprune, and keeping to the point is a common challenge.
I will say one thing about the subject at hand. While the official number of resignations may never be known, it certainly feels much more than the 'exodus' a number of years back when Emirates recruited en mass. And to be perfectly blunt, I can't see much let up as the company appear to be doing little to nothing in order to appease it's pilots. This summer will be an interesting one, so I'm told.
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Callsign Kilo
No, this isn't about my job. as good, or as bad as it may be.
My point about a miserable existence for many within Ryanair, is one which is told ad infinitum on PPRUNE and elsewhere - about a wide number of subjects.
I genuinely wish that there were enough jobs for all Ryanair pilots to resign for. Then, we may see change.
My point about a miserable existence for many within Ryanair, is one which is told ad infinitum on PPRUNE and elsewhere - about a wide number of subjects.
I genuinely wish that there were enough jobs for all Ryanair pilots to resign for. Then, we may see change.