Stop bashing "P2F"

[Good Business Sense]

Wonder how smart you are ace ! Hope you've covered your tracks with the info you've offered - rule 1 in aviation it's a tiny community so........ hope, for your sake, most of the following is BS, even if one or two are loosely correct your employer and colleagues will know who you are;

Trained at Oxford
19-years-old
joined easyjet at 19 months 2 years
200 hours with easyjet
so been with easyjet less than 10 months - training + a bit of line flying
Based Gatwick (Crawley)
360 hours total time
Father and Grandfather ex. BA

For what it's worth most command failures are due to attitude

[RedBlueGreen]

Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah

Or should the thread title have been:
'The Curse of BĀ from the Mummy's Tomb'

We get it, you think it's BA's fault, regardless of the fact they've never used P2F.

[FLEXPWR]

The thread starter has gone silent... no wait, he/she's busy flying the big jet his dad's money deserves...

As Deptrai mentioned, whatever the background or means, there are excellent professionals coming from all directions. Yet from personal experience, I remember only very few with such an arrogant attitude when they had climbed the ladder from the first rung on their own. Can't say the same for many P2F I have met.

[McBruce]

I have absolutely no doubt the OP at some point in the future will change his views and complain how this all affects salary/T&Cs as he realises just how much this cancer is spreading.

Being still a cadet on type he's obviously not had any hardship from being a contract pilot yet - solely to reduce costs for his employer and shag him out of a package his seniors all achieve(d). Unless his 'sponsors' are still providing that additional income.

What's that you want a command? Ok 10%less, if you don't take it, the other monkey will.

Blind following the blind.

[cavortingcheetah]

No, of course it's not BA, nor BMI nor countless other employers. If the blame is laid anywhere it must surely be at the feet of the very first bonded pilot? The rest is history and human failing.

[deptrai]

Maybe we should not be so hard on the op...people frequent this forum in their spare time, maybe he just spent an entire day drinking with his buddies and posts this on his way to bed...or he was smoking crack (I hope not), but whatever it is that brought out this attitude, better leave it at home, and try to get rid of it.

[Greenlights]

I don't believe that people still give credit to that thread...
popcorns were good by the way

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Why are you lot giving this arrogant berk the time of day? Be happy in the knowledge that the easyJet training department will be good enough to weed out attitudes like this. Hopefully.

[Aluminium shuffler]

I agree with the OP. No, really. It's not their fault they are such poor quality candidates that the only way for them to get a job is essentially a £35k bribe. Enthusiasm should always be rewarded, and who could be more enthusiastic than a naive child willing to sell out their family and bankrupt their parents who should be putting money aside for their imminent retirement in order to get a totally unsecured job? And as for integrity, no one is more trustworthy than an individual who so clearly and openly demonstrates their willingness to undercut everyone else in the industry. No, there's nothing wrong with P2F or those who use it...

[Daygo]

Is it me or has somebody gone very quiet?

[JB007]

A troll I'm sure!

But sadly the arrogance, cocky and total lack of humility is an on-going trend and very real with this generation! Actually had a cadet say to a group of us "I've been flying 2 years now, I shouldn't be doing any tests at recruitment anymore"!!!!! It's very much noticed by those of us who've done lots of light aircraft/instructing and TP. I'm also sure it will be noticed by this generation of TRE's and Line Trainers in a good cultured and professional environment.

Be happy in the knowledge that the easyJet training department will be good enough to weed out attitudes like this.

Sure of it...

[Falck]

Hmmmm, I fly with you.

Attitude is where it is all about. It is not a matter of choice to fly around in pistons or TP for little pay. Most of them dream of flying a Jet. But did not have the same start point as you do. Different time,different country,different situations back than. For sure no MPL.

MPL still has to show all of us what these guys are made of.
EasyJet is very cautious about this and will monitor your skills,ATTITUDE and knowledge.
Your flightschool might have said that you are gods gift to aviation. You are not.

[Calmcavok]

I sincerely hope junior isn't for real. I've heard of this attitude in the newbies, but fortunately have not yet experienced it for real.

FWIW, I did a ULR last month, and between the four of us, there was in excess of 65,000 hours experience in the flightdeck, gained through a mixture of piston, turboprop, regional jet, shorthaul, military & long haul ops. This diverse experience provides a hell of a lot of fall back should the hit the fan. My point is that, whilst you are bragging about bagging the medium jet by 19, and TRE by 29 (hopefully), you've forfeited a boat load of quality experience to get the shiny jet. Because you have unlikely done anything between school and airline, your wider life experience is also tremendously lacking, meaning you really bring nothing to the party except your SOP knowledge. Admittedly we were all in a similar position at some point or another, but by being aware of your potential shortcomings and massive inexperience, you may show a little humility and reflect upon the luck that has been bestowed upon you. You are where you are as an accident of birth.

As to the merits of your choice of career path, that's up to you and the financial backing you can find. Coming on here and bragging about your relative wealth, making your own luck (you didn't, it was purchased) and being disparaging about others who haven't bought their way into an airline is unsightly and really not cool.

Good luck though, you must demonstrate some decent level of aptitude. But remember, on prune you will see a lot of people refer to the saying "there by the grace of god..." They may not be religious, but reflect on that statement and it's inherent meaning.

[Ollie Onion]

I have never had to pay for a type rating or job and I was also flying a jet very young (20 years old). I don't have an issue as such with P2F except for the fact that it is the sign of a shameful trend of companies 'subsidising' their running costs by playing on the dreams and aspirations of pilot wannabees.

Secondly, it is a real shame that the 'major' selection criteria of these schemes is infact the candidates 'ability' to pay the huge money required. He says with such ease 'just P2F' and get on with it, well sunshine it is not that simple for a lot of the population. It is a shame that potentially great candidates and skillful aviators are closed out of the market due to not having money to buy a job.

Perhaps the biggest draw back of such schemes is it allows people onto the flight deck who ordinarily would not get a look in. Someone who 'crows' from every rooftop to anyone who will listen just 'how great' he is, in my opinion, has no place in an airliner cockpit. It is a recipe for disaster.

[cavortingcheetah]

Mind you though, apart from the troll crowing, what's the difference between someone cruising into an airline job as a divine right on someone else's money and an air force pilot, all of whose training has been at the expense of the public purse, doing the same thing?

[deptrai]

No. I'm not sure what that leads to. Please enlighten us.

JS (A former cadet who flies visual approaches, even *gasp* without the autothrust, at every available opportunity.)

The word "cadet" is used for a lot of different people. I have nothing but the highest respect for those who went through a rigorous selection program to join military aviation. That was the origin of the word "cadet". Many european flag carriers had - and very rarely still have - similar programs, selecting highly talented people for a rigorous training program, a little monetary cost to students. Some training departments prefer to fully control training from very early on, rather than trying to correct and improve people with possibly less than perfect habits.

Opposed to that approach, there is the idea that people should "work their way up" through ga etc - a very popular concept in the us and several other countries. (although i think the military there for some reason also prefers to recruit "cadets"). I have nothing but the highest respect for those who "worked their way up through the ranks" as well.

There seem to be some cultural issues with the word "cadet". For many european airlines, training people from the beginning was traditionally a preferred way to recruit a minimum baseline of future captains. Not because it was cheap, on the contrary, they paid for it.

But once you use the word "cadet" for people who pay for their own training, pay for a type rating, and then pay to fly - thats's something different, maybe I'm nitpicking here, but I feel calling them cadets is a bit misleading.

[cavortingcheetah]

If they exist at all, they were no doubt trained either with the RAF or at Hamble. Thus both being free at point of purchase.

[Training Risky]

Wonder how smart you are ace ! Hope you've covered your tracks with the info you've offered - rule 1 in aviation it's a tiny community so........ hope, for your sake, most of the following is BS, even if one or two are loosely correct your employer and colleagues will know who you are;


Quote:
Trained at Oxford
19-years-old
joined easyjet at 19 months 2 years
200 hours with easyjet
so been with easyjet less than 10 months - training + a bit of line flying
Based Gatwick (Crawley)
360 hours total time
Father and Grandfather ex. BA

For what it's worth most command failures are due to attitude

Careful - the troll could have easily chosen an innocent colleague at Easy, replicated their profile and set them up as a patsy!

what's the difference between someone cruising into an airline job as a divine right on someone else's money and an air force pilot, all of whose training has been at the expense of the public purse, doing the same thing?

I wa awarded my RAF wings at 24, and as deptrai said, had to pass a tough selection process and a rigorous 3 years of training. No amount of the OP's daddy's money would have convinced the board to select me if I was a tool or had crap hand-eye coordination!

[Shytehawk]

19 years old and 200 hours on type and he thinks he is IRE/TRE material. What a complete pain in the ar*e he must be to fly with. Sounds more like an accident waiting to happen.

[Dukeyboy]

CavortingCheetah, are you seriously comparing the process of getting mum and/or dad to pay for flying training, and training with the military?