easyJet Lisbon pilots announcing 5 days of strike
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 919
Likes: 6
From: uk
WhyByFlier
Trust me, from bitter experience, a pedestal is the last place I'd put several doctors that I have had the mis-fortune to run across!
The Access/Foundation routes to Medicine you quote aren't really representative of the mainstream route to medicine. (By coincidence, I know someone on one, who has a degree in Fine Art, go figure...). What I can say is that I have done entry exams/tests/interviews for several 'difficult to get into' airlines and there is no way in the world that they were as "academically " challenging as the requirements to get even an interview for somewhere like Imperial or Barts. Not by a country mile.
The argument that we will end up on Train Driver salaries isn't up to much either, see here
Trainee Train Driver - Pay And Conditions For UK Train Drivers
I know there are loads of PTF on a lot less, let alone TProp FO's, but the fact remains with luck and hard work, a command in a decent airline puts you way over this and in many cases closer to Junior Consultant Doctor pay.
The undoubted erosion of our pay is, IMHO, mainly due to oversupply of pilots, particularly those well heeled enough to take the P2F route and survive the first few years. Also, we are an independent minded lot and are often reluctant to join or participate in Union activities. If we were all 100% represented by our national unions, they would negotiate from a position of strength and things would not have got so out of hand.
Lastly, I don't think anyone on here thinks that a Pilots job is easy. I feel that I have well earned my salary after that 38kt xwind landing.
But there are very many occupations that are not easy for many reasons, that are remunerated much more modestly than our own.
Trust me, from bitter experience, a pedestal is the last place I'd put several doctors that I have had the mis-fortune to run across!
The Access/Foundation routes to Medicine you quote aren't really representative of the mainstream route to medicine. (By coincidence, I know someone on one, who has a degree in Fine Art, go figure...). What I can say is that I have done entry exams/tests/interviews for several 'difficult to get into' airlines and there is no way in the world that they were as "academically " challenging as the requirements to get even an interview for somewhere like Imperial or Barts. Not by a country mile.
The argument that we will end up on Train Driver salaries isn't up to much either, see here
Trainee Train Driver - Pay And Conditions For UK Train Drivers
I know there are loads of PTF on a lot less, let alone TProp FO's, but the fact remains with luck and hard work, a command in a decent airline puts you way over this and in many cases closer to Junior Consultant Doctor pay.
The undoubted erosion of our pay is, IMHO, mainly due to oversupply of pilots, particularly those well heeled enough to take the P2F route and survive the first few years. Also, we are an independent minded lot and are often reluctant to join or participate in Union activities. If we were all 100% represented by our national unions, they would negotiate from a position of strength and things would not have got so out of hand.
Lastly, I don't think anyone on here thinks that a Pilots job is easy. I feel that I have well earned my salary after that 38kt xwind landing.
But there are very many occupations that are not easy for many reasons, that are remunerated much more modestly than our own.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: UK
Whybyflier has a massive chip on his/her shoulder as he thinks the sun shines out from behind having gone to ctc. Keep on bragging about how good you are flying your a320 as a new fo. Only takes one slip up to bring you mentally down to earth with all your actual pic experience.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
From: United Kingdom
We can talk about making our profession competitive again, but the day flying training became a business was the day that died. Particularly in the last few years if the schools were asking for good aptitude scores, rigorous academic standards and a personality then they would have had very few candidates, because you already have a small pool due to the financial barriers.
It's supply and demand. And it's in the schools interest and the airlines interest to keep supply high.
I think anyone who has graduated in the past 10 years will know of at least 4/5 people who have no business being anywhere near a toy aircraft never mind a 320. Yet they threw money at the problem when they failed things. It's these same people who then throw money into type ratings and get jobs flying A320's.
(No that's not a generalisation that anyone who pays for a tr is a bad pilot or fits that profile, but still) sorry for thread drift.
It's supply and demand. And it's in the schools interest and the airlines interest to keep supply high.
I think anyone who has graduated in the past 10 years will know of at least 4/5 people who have no business being anywhere near a toy aircraft never mind a 320. Yet they threw money at the problem when they failed things. It's these same people who then throw money into type ratings and get jobs flying A320's.
(No that's not a generalisation that anyone who pays for a tr is a bad pilot or fits that profile, but still) sorry for thread drift.
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: The Wood
Whybyflier has a massive chip on his/her shoulder as he thinks the sun shines out from behind having gone to ctc. Keep on bragging about how good you are flying your a320 as a new fo. Only takes one slip up to bring you mentally down to earth with all your actual pic experience.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: London
I think there would be more solidarity amongst pilots if one group did not strike at times of the year (eg Xmas) when other pilots would have to cover and be particularly disrupted. If you want to strike then great but:
Don't do it over holiday periods when your colleagues, who are obliged to cover, will have to spend time away from their homes.
Don't just not turn up for work... Picket or at least make some noise outside the Crewroom. Otherwise why should anyone outside the company notice?
Don't do it over holiday periods when your colleagues, who are obliged to cover, will have to spend time away from their homes.
Don't just not turn up for work... Picket or at least make some noise outside the Crewroom. Otherwise why should anyone outside the company notice?
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 426
Likes: 7
From: Dubai
landmark1234- I disagree with you about the striking over a holiday period, I think that you have to strike when it has the most effect on the company. I do not think that you need consider strike breaching colleagues.
I agree with you about the picketing you need to be in Uniform at the airport (classic Alpa) information picketing other crew members and passengers.
I agree with you about the picketing you need to be in Uniform at the airport (classic Alpa) information picketing other crew members and passengers.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: London
Interesting. Once again though, pilots replacing strikers are not strike breakers... If they don't they will get fired. One solution is for picket lines (if allowed) to "intimidate" arriving replacement pilots, thus putting them under undue stress and impair their "mental condition" which makes them unfit to fly under ops A (6.1.10). It's a tough solution but that only one where everyone would be protected.
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK
one thing that unions always seem to get wrong is the fact that a strike can not be successful if you don't have the public on your side. one sure way to make sure the public is agaisnt you and for the company is to strike over any holiday period.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: London
I agree that you need the public on your side if at all possible and this wont happen if you do it over a holiday. Even if the public is generally not on your side though, the other reasons for not doing it over a holiday period (ie taking UK standby crew away from their homes and families and therefore lessening their sympathies) give another good reason.
