Non type rated easyjet recruitment?
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I'd be very wary of the figures easyjet spout about the numbers of hours worked on a flexi contract. They will work the permanent pilots first and use the flexi to fill the gaps. Clearly they want experience but they don't want to pay for it. Signing up for flexi is madness if you already have a permanent job..unless your current employer is not long for this world.
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Still not been contacted regarding an assessment yet. Not sure I'll even bother after reading the above. It's appalling to think that easy have conned everyone involved in trying to stop flexi and recruit experienced crew. I'm sure training captains and BALPA must feel like mugs
Guy,
Read AdM's post about the contract.
What you have here is people who cannot read, like Captthunder, who post soon after AdM's reiteration of the contract utter guff like this:
Cadets do 12 months max as flexicrew, then get SO (which is permanent grade).
What eJ are doing here is taking the piss by offering that same cadet starting point to experienced pilots, to see if they can get away with it. It is heart warming to read of people ticking the "no" box to starting as flexicrew, but depressing to think that those sensible people are being excluded from the company.
I for one would not go from a permanent position to a contract position (even if it were only for 12 months), unless I thought my current company would be out of business in the near future.
Read AdM's post about the contract.
What you have here is people who cannot read, like Captthunder, who post soon after AdM's reiteration of the contract utter guff like this:
Originally Posted by Captthunder
I seem to remember applying for a permanent position as a FO with easyJet. Not a flexi contract as a SO. Does anyone remember being told that they were applying for a second officers position on a flexi (paid per hour) contract?
What eJ are doing here is taking the piss by offering that same cadet starting point to experienced pilots, to see if they can get away with it. It is heart warming to read of people ticking the "no" box to starting as flexicrew, but depressing to think that those sensible people are being excluded from the company.
I for one would not go from a permanent position to a contract position (even if it were only for 12 months), unless I thought my current company would be out of business in the near future.
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Flexi roster CTC for EZY
Hi guys, i just succeed the selection of EZY, and they proposed me a flexi contract based in GTW. I was wondering about the possibility to commute between my country and GTW between the rows of days ON. I am asking to those already in the flexi process:
Is that achievable or the roster is too dense? I would be based at one hour of flight from my home .
Thanks to answer only if you already work for EZY in a flexi pattern with CTC
Good flights
Is that achievable or the roster is too dense? I would be based at one hour of flight from my home .
Thanks to answer only if you already work for EZY in a flexi pattern with CTC
Good flights
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When I was there commuting letters were only available to those on permanent contracts. Flexi pilots were not eligible for a commuter letter. This may have changed since my departure.
Hourly rate I started on was £20 per hour (CTC). This went up to £43 once I had 500 hours on type. I lasted just under a year and flew 677 hours. Just didn't make economic sense to stay!
I'm assuming new entrants on the flexi deal now get paid an hourly rate from day one? And are not paid the £1,200 per month "allowance" for their first eight months?
ADM I think current easyJet Capts salaries are completely irrelevant. I'd bet my right nut that in five years time T&Cs for new Capts will have eroded even further to what they currently are. EJ cabin crew t&cs were eroded, first officer t&cs have been continually eroding over the past five years. Who's next?
Granted this is a potential issue in every operator.
Hourly rate I started on was £20 per hour (CTC). This went up to £43 once I had 500 hours on type. I lasted just under a year and flew 677 hours. Just didn't make economic sense to stay!
I'm assuming new entrants on the flexi deal now get paid an hourly rate from day one? And are not paid the £1,200 per month "allowance" for their first eight months?
ADM I think current easyJet Capts salaries are completely irrelevant. I'd bet my right nut that in five years time T&Cs for new Capts will have eroded even further to what they currently are. EJ cabin crew t&cs were eroded, first officer t&cs have been continually eroding over the past five years. Who's next?
Granted this is a potential issue in every operator.
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At the risk of opening another can of worms...can people confirm whether they've actually been offered a CTC contract? E.g. With a base and start date? Or were they just asked "will you accept one?"
I was told on the phone last week that they can't yet make offers but will be in touch as soon as they can. That was before I confirmed with them that I couldn't accept the CTC offer. I then received an email confirming the content of the telephone conversation.
I was told on the phone last week that they can't yet make offers but will be in touch as soon as they can. That was before I confirmed with them that I couldn't accept the CTC offer. I then received an email confirming the content of the telephone conversation.
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Hundredpercentplease - what point are you trying to make? I am fully aware of what ADM has said on here. This information has been contradicted by several different people I know who have attended the assessment days. It may well be correct or maybe not.
I was simply stating that when I applied for this role, it was advertised as a direct entry first officer position and NOT a flexi contract or for a second officer. I even received an email saying "Thank you for your application for the First Officer position".
I thought my point was quite clear - Goalposts have been moved to another football pitch. Sorry if it confused you.
I was simply stating that when I applied for this role, it was advertised as a direct entry first officer position and NOT a flexi contract or for a second officer. I even received an email saying "Thank you for your application for the First Officer position".
I thought my point was quite clear - Goalposts have been moved to another football pitch. Sorry if it confused you.
Captthunder,
The point is you are muddying the waters by stating that the SO contract is flexicrew when in reality it is not, it is a permanent, fully employed grade.
Many of us fought long and hard to make all but the first 12 month probationary period permanent positions, so expect flack when you incorrectly publicise those permanent emmployee positions as flexicrew contractor roles.
Goalposts have not been moved, they were never there in the first place. Nobody knew where in the scale easyJet were going to attempt to insert DEPs. It appears, anecdotally, that it is at the 12 month contractor stage. According to your position you may describe this as anything ranging from unsurprising to insulting, but the ball is now in the candidate's court.
Personally I hope you all reject it. Keeps the T&Cs up and it will encourage them to come back and offer something better.
The point is you are muddying the waters by stating that the SO contract is flexicrew when in reality it is not, it is a permanent, fully employed grade.
Many of us fought long and hard to make all but the first 12 month probationary period permanent positions, so expect flack when you incorrectly publicise those permanent emmployee positions as flexicrew contractor roles.
Goalposts have not been moved, they were never there in the first place. Nobody knew where in the scale easyJet were going to attempt to insert DEPs. It appears, anecdotally, that it is at the 12 month contractor stage. According to your position you may describe this as anything ranging from unsurprising to insulting, but the ball is now in the candidate's court.
Personally I hope you all reject it. Keeps the T&Cs up and it will encourage them to come back and offer something better.
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I for one would not go from a permanent position to a contract position (even if it were only for 12 months), unless I thought my current company would be out of business in the near future.
shocking.
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Sprinkles - You do not need me to tell you that there is not a single airline who can absolutely guarantee future terms and conditions for its employees. What I would say, however, is that easyJet is in a better place than most to offer long term viability. Furthermore, no changes can be made to Captain's terms and conditions without the active involvement and agreement of BALPA. Therefore, the captain's terms and conditions are totally relevant and of the 120+ captains that have been promoted this year, every single one of them have been given those terms and conditions if they go on a UK contract (which is the vast majority of them). Starting in September, another round of 120 Captains will be promoted, and every single one of them will be given those exact terms and conditions if they stay in the UK. That sounds good news to me. There may be other airlines in the world promoting at that rate, but I do not know too many of them - other than maybe Ryanair. Good luck to you if you decide to work for them, because you will need it!
Returning to the issue in hand, there is so much misinformation on here that it is embarrassing. Can I just emphasise what other sensible people have said - anyone coming to easyJet is being offered a position, subject to passing a probationary year. That year will be spent working on an hourly rate, but historically most people have been paid very adequately during that year. The terms and conditions I have laid out on the previous page are absolutely accurate, and anyone thinking of coming to work for easyJet should read that post very carefully. That is what you will be offered, and if you do not want to come here on that basis then that's no problem. Good luck in your alternative employment choice.
Returning to the issue in hand, there is so much misinformation on here that it is embarrassing. Can I just emphasise what other sensible people have said - anyone coming to easyJet is being offered a position, subject to passing a probationary year. That year will be spent working on an hourly rate, but historically most people have been paid very adequately during that year. The terms and conditions I have laid out on the previous page are absolutely accurate, and anyone thinking of coming to work for easyJet should read that post very carefully. That is what you will be offered, and if you do not want to come here on that basis then that's no problem. Good luck in your alternative employment choice.
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AdM
AdM,
Do you consider a year long probation period to be fair? Or is it now the bare minimum?
I would consider a 6 month probation period, from day 1, to be sufficient. At least, it always used to be sufficient.
My thought does swing towards whether eJ are using the year long probation period as an insurance policy against the inevitable ups and downs of our industry. It allows for lay offs at will in case of a business hiccup.
Others may view a year long probation as the bare minimum for an airline to decide if the "product" they recruit is of an acceptable standard. Perhaps with so much inexperience, many with type ratings in hand, about it is a necessary evil?
It could, I suppose, be either.
Do you consider a year long probation period to be fair? Or is it now the bare minimum?
I would consider a 6 month probation period, from day 1, to be sufficient. At least, it always used to be sufficient.
My thought does swing towards whether eJ are using the year long probation period as an insurance policy against the inevitable ups and downs of our industry. It allows for lay offs at will in case of a business hiccup.
Others may view a year long probation as the bare minimum for an airline to decide if the "product" they recruit is of an acceptable standard. Perhaps with so much inexperience, many with type ratings in hand, about it is a necessary evil?
It could, I suppose, be either.
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AdM please do not take this as any kind of bashing, it is not. You are clearly very well informed of the workings of eJ however I do feel at times you (and some others) somewhat gloss over a little of what is on offer. No doubt actually having the NEC is a very good progression from what there was before and that has been down to the hard work of you guys in eJ but people should still understand the full picture.
It is my understanding that (by all means correct me):
1. For the first year you are a contractor not on probation. You will be treated as such.
2. eJ can and have in the past stood pilots on these terms down at will, especially during the winter time.
3. After your first full year you will sit an interview, people have failed at this stage it is not a foregone conclusion.
4. If successful you are now a full time employee and will enjoy the full benefits on offer and of course with enviable job security.
I personally know of 5 guys that have been through the mill (albeit before the NEC), 2 of them were dropped. One on his performance and the other as he was taken on in July and after TR and Line Training was stood down for the winter and dared to question the management on how he was supposed to survive. Before anyone says the second guy should have known what he was getting into that is not the point I'm trying to make. He was a contractor and was dropped as soon as he put his head above the parapet, plus only has a few hundred bus hours in his book which is useless elsewhere as he didn't get to the magic 500.
Apart from that 2 of the other guys are still there and seem to enjoy it although they do say it is very hard work at times.
It is my understanding that (by all means correct me):
1. For the first year you are a contractor not on probation. You will be treated as such.
2. eJ can and have in the past stood pilots on these terms down at will, especially during the winter time.
3. After your first full year you will sit an interview, people have failed at this stage it is not a foregone conclusion.
4. If successful you are now a full time employee and will enjoy the full benefits on offer and of course with enviable job security.
I personally know of 5 guys that have been through the mill (albeit before the NEC), 2 of them were dropped. One on his performance and the other as he was taken on in July and after TR and Line Training was stood down for the winter and dared to question the management on how he was supposed to survive. Before anyone says the second guy should have known what he was getting into that is not the point I'm trying to make. He was a contractor and was dropped as soon as he put his head above the parapet, plus only has a few hundred bus hours in his book which is useless elsewhere as he didn't get to the magic 500.
Apart from that 2 of the other guys are still there and seem to enjoy it although they do say it is very hard work at times.
Last edited by Mr-P; 28th Aug 2013 at 14:19.
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ADM you're still missing the point. What relevance is all the new commands and their T&Cs this year and next to people joining now? How many of the guys applying now will be given a direct entry command? None. I'm not talking about the next 24 months, i'm talking long term in excess of five or ten years. Current figures being batted around for time to command that are joining the company now. T&Cs for current commands are not guaranteed for guys joining now. So whats the point in listing them?
You cannot argue the fact that T&Cs in easyjet have been eroding for the past five years. I think you're either management or a fool if you think Captains salaries or bonuses won't be targeted in the future. Just because BALPA need to be actively involved won't stop easyJet from trying it. BALPA had roaring success with stopping Flexi-Crew didn't they? And if you don't agree with revised Capts T&Cs (when it happens) what will you do? Strike. Good luck with that one.
When I was there I came across just as many Capts who left BALPA as those still in it. Say's a lot!
I will never disagree that Easyjet are big contenders and here for the long term. Yes that's a positive. But that simple fact is why these NECs are so diabolical. FlyBe pilots recently took a pay cut but then FlyBe wasn't performing very well. EasyJet have to be one of the most profitable airlines in Europe right now and you think these salaries are competitive? Or this flexi crew year deal is fair? Of course it isn't. We both know that but because people accept these deals is the reason easyjet get away with it.
If you believe earning potentially £29,111* per year is adequate for guys with experience and families for the job we do then you're deluded. It might be acceptable to cadets with nil experience but we're not talking about them are we?
*Thats how much I would have earned gross for my hours that I flew in that company for a year on flexi crew. Providing I was paid an hourly rate from day one, which I wasn't.
You cannot argue the fact that T&Cs in easyjet have been eroding for the past five years. I think you're either management or a fool if you think Captains salaries or bonuses won't be targeted in the future. Just because BALPA need to be actively involved won't stop easyJet from trying it. BALPA had roaring success with stopping Flexi-Crew didn't they? And if you don't agree with revised Capts T&Cs (when it happens) what will you do? Strike. Good luck with that one.
When I was there I came across just as many Capts who left BALPA as those still in it. Say's a lot!
I will never disagree that Easyjet are big contenders and here for the long term. Yes that's a positive. But that simple fact is why these NECs are so diabolical. FlyBe pilots recently took a pay cut but then FlyBe wasn't performing very well. EasyJet have to be one of the most profitable airlines in Europe right now and you think these salaries are competitive? Or this flexi crew year deal is fair? Of course it isn't. We both know that but because people accept these deals is the reason easyjet get away with it.
If you believe earning potentially £29,111* per year is adequate for guys with experience and families for the job we do then you're deluded. It might be acceptable to cadets with nil experience but we're not talking about them are we?
*Thats how much I would have earned gross for my hours that I flew in that company for a year on flexi crew. Providing I was paid an hourly rate from day one, which I wasn't.
Last edited by Sprinkles; 28th Aug 2013 at 15:02.
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EcamSurprise,
Unfortunately for him he didn't get called back, needless to say he isn't a big fan of eJ anymore.
A number of cadets were stood down for the winter and those joining so late on were told at joining that it would happen.
Did your friend get brought back for the Spring as with everyone else?
Did your friend get brought back for the Spring as with everyone else?
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Hundredperentplease - Sorry I may have confused matters. I assumed you joined as a Second Officer on a flexi contract as I didn't think you would start as a First Officer on a flexi contract, then get demoted to a Second Officer on a permanent contract for 12 months, before getting promoted back to a First Offcer on a permanent contract.
I had my assessment yesterday and listened very carefully to what was on offer.
Both permanent & flexi contracts are on offer dependant on; base selection, performance in assessment (incld. Sim) AND requirement. Its interesting that every single person I know who has had a successful assessment has been offered a flexi contract. Lots of bases are available including France, Spain, Italy & Portugal.
If you are offered a flexi contract you will join on a CTC contract (there was no mention of Parc). Whether you are classified as an SO or FO was not mentioned and I guess academic. After 12 months (we were told to expect a minimum of 750hrs in the first 12 months), you are interviewed and MAY be offered a permanent contract as a Second Officer on £38k with no sector pay. After 1 years service, you are promoted to First Officer and then as per the details ADM has already stated in a previous post.
Hundredpercentplease - the point I was trying to make in my earlier post was simple - I applied for a First Officers position. That was what was advertised. It is disappointing to have gone through the process and spent a considerable amount of money to find out I am probably gonna get offered the same contract as a young cadet fresh out of flying school.
Of course if they had advertised for experienced pilots to be employed on a flexi contract, I suspect a lot of us would have saved the £500 it has cost to prepare/ attend this assessment and carried on with our lives in blissful ignorance.
I had my assessment yesterday and listened very carefully to what was on offer.
Both permanent & flexi contracts are on offer dependant on; base selection, performance in assessment (incld. Sim) AND requirement. Its interesting that every single person I know who has had a successful assessment has been offered a flexi contract. Lots of bases are available including France, Spain, Italy & Portugal.
If you are offered a flexi contract you will join on a CTC contract (there was no mention of Parc). Whether you are classified as an SO or FO was not mentioned and I guess academic. After 12 months (we were told to expect a minimum of 750hrs in the first 12 months), you are interviewed and MAY be offered a permanent contract as a Second Officer on £38k with no sector pay. After 1 years service, you are promoted to First Officer and then as per the details ADM has already stated in a previous post.
Hundredpercentplease - the point I was trying to make in my earlier post was simple - I applied for a First Officers position. That was what was advertised. It is disappointing to have gone through the process and spent a considerable amount of money to find out I am probably gonna get offered the same contract as a young cadet fresh out of flying school.
Of course if they had advertised for experienced pilots to be employed on a flexi contract, I suspect a lot of us would have saved the £500 it has cost to prepare/ attend this assessment and carried on with our lives in blissful ignorance.
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It does not make sense to recruit experienced pilots and after one year on a hour contract make them SO.
Since when do Low cost airlines fly with 3 pilots on a A320. I didn't know there is time to do a nap on these short haul flights so that the SO can jump in the seat to act as a relief pilot. Or am I wrong!
In the email that I got after the assessment and sim they offered a position as FO. Does not make sense to be 12 months FO to be then offered a position as SO afterwards.
I start to get the feeling that Easy has not been totally 100% upfront about whats on offer.
Since when do Low cost airlines fly with 3 pilots on a A320. I didn't know there is time to do a nap on these short haul flights so that the SO can jump in the seat to act as a relief pilot. Or am I wrong!
In the email that I got after the assessment and sim they offered a position as FO. Does not make sense to be 12 months FO to be then offered a position as SO afterwards.
I start to get the feeling that Easy has not been totally 100% upfront about whats on offer.
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Ecam surprise - I can only tell you what was said. Lots of bases were on offer. I chose Paris as my second choice & the interviewer said "good choice". As for Spain it was on the slide. They did however say that some of the information was out of date.
Job was advertised as First Officer position non type rated. I still have the receipt email which says "thank you for your application for the position of First Officer".
Definately lots of bases including European bases available, permanent & flexi contracts available through CTC and the slide said on the flexi contract "expect a minimum of 750 hours pa". I suspect your 700 hrs is more accurate.
In the presentation they were keen to make what was on offer clear as they said "there had been a lot of confusion as to what was on offer".
Maybe they've just created a bit more lol
Job was advertised as First Officer position non type rated. I still have the receipt email which says "thank you for your application for the position of First Officer".
Definately lots of bases including European bases available, permanent & flexi contracts available through CTC and the slide said on the flexi contract "expect a minimum of 750 hours pa". I suspect your 700 hrs is more accurate.
In the presentation they were keen to make what was on offer clear as they said "there had been a lot of confusion as to what was on offer".
Maybe they've just created a bit more lol
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Mikehoncho - sounds like your the first person I know of who have been offered a permanent position as a First Officer. Well done.
Have you been given any idea of start date?
Ecam - interestingly in the presentation by the easyJet HR team the amount per hour on the flexi contract is based on current factored hours. This was clarified in the presentation. I had been previously led to believe the amount varied with the numbers of hours flown for easyJet. At £67 per hour x 750 hours I would be on a salary of £50,250 pa for the first 12 months. That doesn't seem right as you would then take a drop to £38k when joining on a permanent contract as an SO.
Think I'm more confused now than I was before!
Have you been given any idea of start date?
Ecam - interestingly in the presentation by the easyJet HR team the amount per hour on the flexi contract is based on current factored hours. This was clarified in the presentation. I had been previously led to believe the amount varied with the numbers of hours flown for easyJet. At £67 per hour x 750 hours I would be on a salary of £50,250 pa for the first 12 months. That doesn't seem right as you would then take a drop to £38k when joining on a permanent contract as an SO.
Think I'm more confused now than I was before!