Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

Monarch Anyone?

Old 28th Jan 2014, 06:52
  #901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Crawley
Age: 50
Posts: 69
Your statement is correct Pilot of the Caribbean, however the percentage of guys from CTC/OAA with no experience of commercial/military flying going straight into the plumb jobs in the UK does tend to grate especially when there are so many suitable people out there who have worked through various stages of their Airline development path with experience/life skills/good flying records/balanced personalities banging on the door of not just this particular airline but of the others as well.

Its obvious there is a place for cadets with no experience that is not in doubt. the frustration, I think is possibly caused by the balance or inexperienced to experienced especially in to percieved top jobs such as at this particular company

Fair play to anyone who helps guys out from failing airlines that is definately a good point however of all the various reasons trotted out at the different airlines to justify the "cadet rich recruitment" situation in the UK I have to say, for me, none of them make logical sense.
Three Lions is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 08:21
  #902 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Here and there
Age: 44
Posts: 358
Whilst I agree that there may be too many cadets going straight onto jets at the expense of well experienced turbo prop or experienced jets pilots from bankrupt companies, the Monarch thread is the wrong place to have it. Try the Easyjet thread or others.

Monarch have taken on a broad spectrum of new pilots over the past couple of years and in even spreads.
Only a third of each intake were cadets, while all others were either experienced jet pilots from other carriers or experienced turbo prop or ex military people.
Monarch have looked to the long term for experience levels and have done more to help those already flying to progress their carriers than most other UK airlines.
Serenity is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 09:41
  #903 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: another place
Posts: 729
I think you will find the airlines have a vested interest in certain flight training organisations continuing to supply cadets.
If airlines employ the current glut experienced guys then the flight training schools will wind down or go bust and then the pilots will have them by the balls due to lack of available cadets/new blood and that will make pilot employment expensive for them.
Oversupply and cheap is how most companies want it.

As for Monarch, they have always been one of the better companies and even though I am in a good position at the moment I would leave for a job at MON.
Deep and fast is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 09:49
  #904 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 42
Serenity hits a fairish point. For sure there are operators out there who prefer a greater number of cadets but just a guess is that this is possibly due to the fact some operators, by virtue they are a larger outfit recruit more new hires. In ratio is there any difference between ezy and Monarch? My guess is ezy would still have a higher ratio of cadets however it is likely this ratio isnt a different as we would be led to believe

And to add to the equation how many Monarch new hires over the last year or so were taken from the group of ezy cadets that were on terrible t&cs at that time - an for the purpose of this discussion are been classed as "Monarch experienced hires" and not "cadets" I accept there maybe a touch of "goalpost moving" here by myself but I am playing devils advocate to paint a picture. Maybe there isnt much difference after all

You cannot escape the fact Monarch are an Operator that lots of people would like to work for. But I feel this particular discussion is in its right place. As it is clear it is taking place at Monarch.

I am sure there will already be a similar discussion on ezy threads along with other threads that are as deserving of this discussion as this one
karanou is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 10:32
  #905 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 316
Yes sorry, I didn't mean Monarch by itself. It was a general little moan. Perhaps not the correct thread technically. I just saw the word cadet again and had a little gripe out of frustration at what's been a dire year for me and others.

Last edited by Wireless; 28th Jan 2014 at 12:08.
Wireless is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 12:06
  #906 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 344
You cannot escape the fact Monarch are an Operator that lots of people would like to work for. But I feel this particular discussion is in its right place. As it is clear it is taking place at Monarch.
Yes, that is correct, but Monarch would make no apology for their cadet recruitment, as it has served them very well. They have been recruiting cadets for a long time and many of those ex-cadets are now training captains and hold management positions within the company. Monarch treat their cadets very well and as already exemplified most of those cadets establish themselves in good career paths within the airline.
the percentage of guys from CTC/OAA with no experience of commercial/military flying going straight into the plumb jobs in the UK does tend to grate especially when there are so many suitable people out there who have worked through various stages of their Airline development path with experience/life skills/good flying records/balanced personalities banging on the door of not just this particular airline but of the others as well.
Not forgetting that almost all of the selected cadets are considered "suitable people" for the steep and demanding learning curve that is expected of them. They also have "balanced personalities" and good interpersonal skills with strong (CRM) non-technical qualities that were an ingrained part of their training courses. "Life experience" is one of those abstract terms that people often use to mean anything they want it to mean. All of the cadet pilots bring similar and individual life experience in much the same measure as anyone else of their respective age group and spectrum. Cadet pilots are usually fast learning individuals who are a pleasure to work with. Most line captains enjoy being a part of the cadets continuation training and development process, and it is a very positive and rewarding part of working here.

This is a company that has and does value quality and loyalty. It has never had any problem in attracting applicants with a high degree of both. That holds true for cadets, ex-military pilots, and pilots from other companies. On that score, and given the balanced nature of the recruitment portfolio, it has nothing to apologise for. Experience, although not in isolation, is valued. However, cadets with a lack of flying experience are also valued for the demonstrable qualities they bring to the game. All cadets are subject to a 6-8 month probationary period upon placement. At the end of that period and subject to vacancies being available, and a high level of demonstrated attainment and progress, almost all are offered contracts of employment.

Generally speaking, two of the three recruitment sources are firmly targeted at the "experienced pilot" market. Terms, conditions and career prospects are good by industry standards, and that is always going to mean a lot of disappointed applicants. The final group are "apprentice" pilots, and across the group there has always been a solid, mentored and recognised history of apprenticeships, which the company is very proud of. From the cadet pilot source, the company also seeks to attract the best applicants and its experience has been long term and positive.

Whatever recruitment source is highlighted, the airline does not charge for type ratings or any other form of training. Cadets and non-type rated pilots do enter into a reducing and short term bond to cover reasonably assessed costs if a contract of employment is offered. All pilots within 24 months (at the latest) are on exactly the same incremental salary ladders irrespective of their pathway at induction. All are on exactly the same T&C's.

That is pretty much the way it is, and the way it has been for quite a long time. Monarch is a good career airline and has a solid training and apprenticeship ethos. It works for the company, and it works for most of those who have made their careers here. There are three general recruitment gateways which provide opportunities to a broad range of would be applicants. If those gateways don't suit other peoples perceptions for whatever reason, I doubt the company will lose any sleep over it.

Finally, I would point out that Monarch has never been a company focused on "simulator tests" or technical rich recruitment interviews. The focus has historically always been on the personal qualities of the individual. Anybody who has been through an interview, will often comment on the relaxed and seemingly informal nature of that process. This focus doesn't ignore the experience levels or training background of the applicant, because the recruitment source pools already provide much of that information both by default and reference.
PilotsOfTheCaribbean is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 13:36
  #907 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 119
Where do I apply? Sounds like the dream.
drivez is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2014, 15:59
  #908 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,247
A chap I met recently has just been taken on by Monarch. He's a low houred chap who's spent some time in Monarch's Ops department.
To say he's happy is an understatement. As far as I can recall, he did not go through the "big 3".
redsnail is online now  
Old 29th Jan 2014, 10:27
  #909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 640
Monarch's T&Cs are a minor miracle. If it was a listed company, it would have gone the way of EZY etc.

The experienced vs cadet debate in the context of Monarch only reflects that there are far far too few jobs offering decent T&Cs, as Monarch is not taking the mick as it knows that it could fill its places by asking for 30k TR, zero hours etc.
FANS is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2014, 13:56
  #910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SSE of smoki
Posts: 223
Hi,

Excellent post from Pilots of the Caribbean. An accurate description of how things work within Monarch. Management pilots with a practical outlook. One of the best flying jobs to be had in the UK.
Khaosai is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2014, 15:12
  #911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 52
I hate to sound like a broken record, but is there anything new concerning people in the hold/hold for interview pool?
woolyalan is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2015, 09:45
  #912 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: north by north west
Posts: 195
selecting days off

Do you get the option of choosing/requesting a select number of days off during your roster each month? If so, how does this work?
Jay_solo is offline  
Old 1st Sep 2015, 15:52
  #913 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Face down on a waxed monkey
Posts: 607
It is very complicated and you tend to pay with a hard roster either side. You can have 3 in a Summer roster period and 4 in Winter, but there are a set of rules as long as your arm to tick off before it is granted. As with any airline, if you are expecting a life these days, forget it!!!
PAPI-74 is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2015, 15:00
  #914 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: in geosynchronous orbit
Posts: 86
Monarch interview

Hi anyone gone through and passed the adapt tests, to be invited for interview ?
Any info is welcome, ie prep etc, pm me please....
Thanks
manflexsrsrwy is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2015, 15:03
  #915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: north by north west
Posts: 195
On average, around what time is the earliest report time for duty and what time does the latest report time start?
Jay_solo is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2015, 16:56
  #916 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Face down on a waxed monkey
Posts: 607
Cheap Flights & Holidays - Book Your Flight Online - Monarch

There isn't an average really, normally a morning and afternoon wave (slot 1 and slot 2 - slot 3 is the night Ibiza).

04:30 - 05:30 UTC report is slot 1 generally.

We report 1hr 15mins before departure, but generally the FOs get in 10-15 mins before that to get the paperwork printed out. You can see form the different bases what time the latest departure will be.

Turn-arounds down route are now typically 50 mins and 2 sectors for each crew per day.
PAPI-74 is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2015, 20:22
  #917 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: on earth
Posts: 18
Do you get rostered home standby's as part of your work week during the summer?
A330B777 is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2015, 20:45
  #918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: under the sea
Posts: 2,173
Mostly home standbys with a few airport duties thrown in.
tubby linton is online now  
Old 1st Oct 2015, 09:00
  #919 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: on earth
Posts: 18
After reading over 40 something odd pages on this thread, can someone please clarify this;
Can you voluntarily choose a part time (50% or 75%) contract on entry? And if you wish, can you opt to stay on a part time contract permanently?

Last edited by A330B777; 1st Oct 2015 at 09:02. Reason: grammar
A330B777 is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2015, 09:03
  #920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 96
It would appear to have crept under the radar a bit, but looks like applications on oracle have opened again in the last couple of days? Seemingly for NTR too!
hobnobanyone is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.