BA Pilots Ponder BMI Proposal
Walsh will be back soon
The Turkeys have spoken, "long live Christmas"
Join Date: May 2000
Location: South East
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would imagine a large percentage of those that didn't vote were the very senior pilots for whom the outcome would have practically no effect one way or the other.
I guess they decided to allow those more junior to decide the future.
Fair enough really.
I guess they decided to allow those more junior to decide the future.
Fair enough really.
Last edited by Super Stall; 31st Jan 2012 at 15:07.
I would imagine a large percentage of those that didn't vote were the very senior pilots for whom the outcome would have practically no effect one way or the other.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: South East
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This has been done to death. The work force is already divided (APS/NAPS/BARP)
It's sad, it's unfortunate, and nobody but nobody is happy about it, but there really was no other way.
We may yet see BAex, but at least it wont be today.
Kicking the can down the road and all that...
It's sad, it's unfortunate, and nobody but nobody is happy about it, but there really was no other way.
We may yet see BAex, but at least it wont be today.
Kicking the can down the road and all that...
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
much worse pay
Have a look at Cathay/Emirates etc. if you want 'much worse pay'.
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tall Boy, I am rubbish at maths (a jolly good reason to celebrate that Dingbaticus never yearned to be an airline Pilot) but I made it 62% voted ‘YES’ too.
As I said back on page 10 of this thread, I was not feeling the love for the ‘YES’ vote but I am delighted, ahead of official confirmation, to be one of the first to say ‘congratulations and welcome to the family’ to our new colleagues from BMI.
Not only did I not feel the love for the ‘YES’ vote, I did not feel the love for Dingbaticus on this thread. I resisted the bait, as the ‘growly bears’ grumbling for a rumbling on pprune bear no resemblance to the professionalism of my Flight Crew colleagues in the work place.
I don’t know if it is due to the reality that, like most strikers, I am actually a passionate professional rather than the militant monster portrayed during our dispute or that, whilst being rubbish at maths, the one figure I never struggled with is my own but the animosity I appear to attract on pprune has thankfully never translated into my real world.
Stormin Normin, Mr Walsh never left nor did his long term plans. Capitalism is like a giant ponzi scheme and as the emerging middle classes of developing countries drive up their living standards and wage demands, so the pool of cheap labour that supplied the demands of Europe and the USA diminishes.
We need to recognise that, whether Airline Pilot or Cabin Crew, we are all viewed as unit costs and we are all under pressure to deliver more for less. Rather than being distracted by pointless battles between our communities, we need to evolve and find the balance between supporting the business and protecting our futures.
It might shock your middle class sensibilities to think of BALPA as a Union but now is not a time for a fit of the vapours. BALPA represent Pilots across the UK and you are as susceptible as the rest of the UK to the spin encouraging us to cheer each other in a race to the bottom. Before you protest too loudly, did you ever think a banker would hand back their bonus?
Those amongst the Flight Crew community who delight in casting scorn on any suggestion that Cabin Crew have anything in common with Pilots forget our motto ‘To Fly, To Serve’. At the heart of our business is the customer and post Cabin Crew dispute, the Leadership Team have recognised the need for us to collectively focus our energies on the most precious cargo we carry, our passengers.
Rather than focus on the negatives of the Cabin Crew dispute, I prefer to move forward and use it as a learning experience. It is not only our customers who are going on a journey and I am sure our BMI colleagues will be as delighted as I am that our Pilots extended them a boarding card to their future, as part of our airline family.
The postings made by Dingbaticus are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
As I said back on page 10 of this thread, I was not feeling the love for the ‘YES’ vote but I am delighted, ahead of official confirmation, to be one of the first to say ‘congratulations and welcome to the family’ to our new colleagues from BMI.
Not only did I not feel the love for the ‘YES’ vote, I did not feel the love for Dingbaticus on this thread. I resisted the bait, as the ‘growly bears’ grumbling for a rumbling on pprune bear no resemblance to the professionalism of my Flight Crew colleagues in the work place.
I don’t know if it is due to the reality that, like most strikers, I am actually a passionate professional rather than the militant monster portrayed during our dispute or that, whilst being rubbish at maths, the one figure I never struggled with is my own but the animosity I appear to attract on pprune has thankfully never translated into my real world.
Stormin Normin, Mr Walsh never left nor did his long term plans. Capitalism is like a giant ponzi scheme and as the emerging middle classes of developing countries drive up their living standards and wage demands, so the pool of cheap labour that supplied the demands of Europe and the USA diminishes.
We need to recognise that, whether Airline Pilot or Cabin Crew, we are all viewed as unit costs and we are all under pressure to deliver more for less. Rather than being distracted by pointless battles between our communities, we need to evolve and find the balance between supporting the business and protecting our futures.
It might shock your middle class sensibilities to think of BALPA as a Union but now is not a time for a fit of the vapours. BALPA represent Pilots across the UK and you are as susceptible as the rest of the UK to the spin encouraging us to cheer each other in a race to the bottom. Before you protest too loudly, did you ever think a banker would hand back their bonus?
Those amongst the Flight Crew community who delight in casting scorn on any suggestion that Cabin Crew have anything in common with Pilots forget our motto ‘To Fly, To Serve’. At the heart of our business is the customer and post Cabin Crew dispute, the Leadership Team have recognised the need for us to collectively focus our energies on the most precious cargo we carry, our passengers.
Rather than focus on the negatives of the Cabin Crew dispute, I prefer to move forward and use it as a learning experience. It is not only our customers who are going on a journey and I am sure our BMI colleagues will be as delighted as I am that our Pilots extended them a boarding card to their future, as part of our airline family.
The postings made by Dingbaticus are my own thoughts, feelings and beliefs and don’t necessarily represent my employers positions, strategies or opinions.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The champagne corks will be popping in Madrid tonight! Willie has called the BA pilots bluff and they have rolled over. It is nothing short of a capitulation. The only winners are the senior pilots who will continue to keep their snouts in the trough. The two ringers and recent DEP's have been shafted.
There is nothing now to stop BA Express coming along when BA's "Fred the Shred" decides to make further cuts. This is a gross miscalculation by BA's pilots to put their trust in Willie. He will cut and cut again.
The final humiliation is that the pilots are going to part fund the BMI takeover themselves, through productivity and giving up after a six year legal battle, money owed by BA over their average holiday pay claim.
Game set and match to Willie.
There is nothing now to stop BA Express coming along when BA's "Fred the Shred" decides to make further cuts. This is a gross miscalculation by BA's pilots to put their trust in Willie. He will cut and cut again.
The final humiliation is that the pilots are going to part fund the BMI takeover themselves, through productivity and giving up after a six year legal battle, money owed by BA over their average holiday pay claim.
Game set and match to Willie.
Last edited by Count Niemantznarr; 1st Feb 2012 at 04:36.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI cabin crew are not going to join the Legacy crew, that is for sure. There has been very little information about what will happen to the BMI cabin crew, but I feel there is a surprise coming.
Two things may happen; either they will end up on Mixed Fleet, or they will be the nucleus for BA Express. Mixed Fleet is being pulled off of the PHX route now after losing ATL. The future for this fleet due to 900 hour rule, is shorthaul and short longhaul.
I would not be at all surprised if a new longhaul low cost subsidiary is formed at LGW due to the base losing money using Mainline pilots. As it is Willie's aim to have a premium world airline with a low cost base, you can see a BA version of JetStar coming.
Two things may happen; either they will end up on Mixed Fleet, or they will be the nucleus for BA Express. Mixed Fleet is being pulled off of the PHX route now after losing ATL. The future for this fleet due to 900 hour rule, is shorthaul and short longhaul.
I would not be at all surprised if a new longhaul low cost subsidiary is formed at LGW due to the base losing money using Mainline pilots. As it is Willie's aim to have a premium world airline with a low cost base, you can see a BA version of JetStar coming.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What does this integration really mean in terms of the contracts of bmi pilots and cabin crew, do they get to sign new ba contracts or do they remain on their old bmi ones?
The pilots will remain on their BMI contracts initially in accordance with TUPE whilst consultations are carried out with the BMI BALPA reps as to how the integration will go ahead from the pilot's point of view. Ultimately I would expect to see the BMI pilots joining on BA contracts with such things as pay protection where necessary and grandfather rights Airbus commands, for example.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would not be at all surprised if a new longhaul low cost subsidiary is formed at LGW due to the base losing money using Mainline pilots. As it is Willie's aim to have a premium world airline with a low cost base, you can see a BA version of JetStar coming.
There is much talk of a divided pilot work-force within IAG, how much less fractured will that pilot work-force be now that ALL BA pilots (BA and Ex-BMI) will be represented by a single CC and cannot be played one against the other?
The Count is still trying to enjoy a Scadenfreude moment, sadly for him and his seriously flawed thinking, this moment has been seriously delayed by the vote.
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 1st Feb 2012 at 12:13.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Skimming the very edge of heaven
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite right Juan,
As for the senior pilots, they have in fact gained very little by this as their career progression would not have been hampered by a "no" vote, as against the enhanced career prospects that integration and growth will bring to all FOs.
The Count will have to wait a lot longer because of this result for his Scadenfreude moment.
As for us being next, we were always next and always will be, as will every other group of employees everywhere. I hope we can move forward with this union in a fair and productive manner for all, yes even for the Count and his ilk.
Welcome aboard chaps.
As for the senior pilots, they have in fact gained very little by this as their career progression would not have been hampered by a "no" vote, as against the enhanced career prospects that integration and growth will bring to all FOs.
The Count will have to wait a lot longer because of this result for his Scadenfreude moment.
As for us being next, we were always next and always will be, as will every other group of employees everywhere. I hope we can move forward with this union in a fair and productive manner for all, yes even for the Count and his ilk.
Welcome aboard chaps.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Unfortunately I don't think any employee group is going to be immune to having to defend their position within legacy carriers over the coming couple of years.
Look at the position AF/KLM is in at the moment with €6.5 billion debts and their announcement that time has been called on ALL contracts with a requirement to re-negotiate ALL contracts over the next 18 months.
Failure to do so will result in nullification of those contracts and loss of employment. Pensions are under the hammer as well and, in a co-ordinated move with the French Government an attack on the French 35 hour working week will be instigated.
Personally I would rather be in a position to be able to flex my terms with my employer than the constant head butting of other groups. The inability of other Unions to move with the times means that those joining from BMI in the Cabin don't have much of a say as to where they end up. Perhaps better than being represented by an over egotistical tomato grower though.
Why does the 'Count' insist on attacking the VCC's all the time, if he got his way then half of Unite would be thrown out for working as VCC. Never let the truth etc.
Look at the position AF/KLM is in at the moment with €6.5 billion debts and their announcement that time has been called on ALL contracts with a requirement to re-negotiate ALL contracts over the next 18 months.
Failure to do so will result in nullification of those contracts and loss of employment. Pensions are under the hammer as well and, in a co-ordinated move with the French Government an attack on the French 35 hour working week will be instigated.
Personally I would rather be in a position to be able to flex my terms with my employer than the constant head butting of other groups. The inability of other Unions to move with the times means that those joining from BMI in the Cabin don't have much of a say as to where they end up. Perhaps better than being represented by an over egotistical tomato grower though.
Why does the 'Count' insist on attacking the VCC's all the time, if he got his way then half of Unite would be thrown out for working as VCC. Never let the truth etc.