Ryanair Standbys
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You're quite right. But, where do you draw the line?
For instance, part of the 'deal' now requires you to pay for, lets say, landing fees. Would you happily do this in the same way that you paid for the type rating?
No? Why not?! You paid for the legally required type rating so why won't you pay for the legally required landing fees?
For instance, part of the 'deal' now requires you to pay for, lets say, landing fees. Would you happily do this in the same way that you paid for the type rating?
No? Why not?! You paid for the legally required type rating so why won't you pay for the legally required landing fees?
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Lord Spandex,
To me it seems that you think everyone working at Ryanair is doing so because because either they have, as you say , taken the "easiest" option or they couldn't get a job elsewhere when in fact the majority of the people actually want to work there. Myself and most of the guys I trained with specifically said that they did not want to work for YOUR company unless the worst came to the worst and they were still looking for a job in 2 years time. I was fully aware of the t's & c's, I was fully aware of having to fund my TR, I was fully aware that there was no minimum hours guarantee (as I'm sure 99% of us were) yet we all would rather pay £24k for a TR and fly for Ryanair than work for your company even though the TR was funded by your airline. At the end of the day everything comes down to personal choices so although you may not agree with SSTR majority accept it
To me it seems that you think everyone working at Ryanair is doing so because because either they have, as you say , taken the "easiest" option or they couldn't get a job elsewhere when in fact the majority of the people actually want to work there. Myself and most of the guys I trained with specifically said that they did not want to work for YOUR company unless the worst came to the worst and they were still looking for a job in 2 years time. I was fully aware of the t's & c's, I was fully aware of having to fund my TR, I was fully aware that there was no minimum hours guarantee (as I'm sure 99% of us were) yet we all would rather pay £24k for a TR and fly for Ryanair than work for your company even though the TR was funded by your airline. At the end of the day everything comes down to personal choices so although you may not agree with SSTR majority accept it
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Which company is that then? Don't believe I've said who I now work for.
Good for you. You've not really got a complaint about so many standbys then have you?
So much for ignoring me and sticking to the topic.
GAF15, why so interested?
1. MYOB
2. Yes
I was fully aware of the t's & c's, I was fully aware of having to fund my TR, I was fully aware that there was no minimum hours guarantee (as I'm sure 99% of us were) yet we all would rather pay £24k for a TR and fly for Ryanair than work for your company even though the TR was funded by your airline. At the end of the day everything comes down to personal choices so although you may not agree with SSTR majority accept it
So much for ignoring me and sticking to the topic.
GAF15, why so interested?
1. MYOB
2. Yes
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Spandex
You are quite a regular "poster" on a Ryanair thread. Why would,nt I be interested?
MYOB? Is that a juvenile way of saying mind your own business?
Now that is rich.
MYOB? Is that a juvenile way of saying mind your own business?
Now that is rich.
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GAF15,
If I felt the need to then I could broadcast details of myself, my work and my life on the internet. However, I'd like to keep all of that private. I don't even see how what I do and who I work for is relevant to this thread anyway. I hope you're not the Stasi because you may not like that in the slightest.
If you don't like non Ryanair employees to post on a Ryanair thread then don't create a Ryanair thread on a public forum, is that so hard to understand? Rich indeed!
MYOB is a lazy way of saying such a thing.
P.S. I hope you've asked all the other contributors to this thread what they do and who they work for. I wouldn't like to feel that you're singling me out for special attention.
If I felt the need to then I could broadcast details of myself, my work and my life on the internet. However, I'd like to keep all of that private. I don't even see how what I do and who I work for is relevant to this thread anyway. I hope you're not the Stasi because you may not like that in the slightest.
If you don't like non Ryanair employees to post on a Ryanair thread then don't create a Ryanair thread on a public forum, is that so hard to understand? Rich indeed!
MYOB is a lazy way of saying such a thing.
P.S. I hope you've asked all the other contributors to this thread what they do and who they work for. I wouldn't like to feel that you're singling me out for special attention.
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I was reading this site and while it is poorly put together the gist of what is being called a " recruitment scam " is that people pay for training as cabin crew and then fail their probation after providing very cheap labour for just under a year. Is it moving towards the same thing in first officer positions? Does it work out cheaper for Ryanair to keep the RHS filled with a fresh cadet ( in the summer season ) ( if it does Im sure knowing Mick O Learys approach to business that is what he is doing if he can get away with it ) , however it makes less sense to me that he is doing the same thing with captains unless of course a year 2+ captain costs more money and he is happy that he can get a supply of year1 captains from his cadet pool ( command is a form of carrott being touted from what I can gather ). Does in essence Ryanair want you to move on as soon as you become more expensive? I am not knocking people who have paid to fly ( as a TR does not cost 30K ..right ?) but more trying to grasp where the commercial sense for bean counters lies in it all.
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Of course! As usual anybody who doesn't agree with what you've done or think that Ryanair is the best 'deal' is instantly classed as a jealous wannabe. Get over yourself.
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I am sure that the sniping, puerile comments, bad spelling and poor grammar, displayed by some of the representatives of this airline on this forum, are not a reflection of the entire pilot workforce. But I have yet to view any other airline specific related thread, that will come close to one about Ryanair. When it comes down to silly, immature, arrogant and sometimes aggressive responses to posts, you guys take the biscuit.
Beauties such as this, you've gotta love em. 
Wondering has Lord SPAndex any jet time or is he bored at home waiting for a job having failed they Ryanair interview!
Last edited by shaun ryder; 20th Dec 2010 at 09:21.
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Can't wait to see the comments when you guys find out ryr next plan for new recruits, ie 12 month contract then "see ya". On sale in 2011. That ort to get ya's going.
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Spandex,
You're missing some things. First, not all bases suffer from the "standby-itis". In fact, the enormous amounts of standby's seem to mostly hit UK bases. I've explained why somewhere else on this forum. But what it boils down to is too many Ryanair bases too close together. In other bases, flying remains quite steady throughout the winter. From when I was an FO I remember 50-60 hours in the winter. I wonder how many legacy carriers (maybe yours) can sport those figures for their FO's on a 737 or equivelant aircraft.
Second, paying for your type rating is still investing in your future. I would not pay for landing fees or fuel for a particular carrier. But my type rating is for the most flown passenger aircraft in the world, so wouldn't you say having that aircraft on your license is a good investment?
Last. You can't blame people for asking questions about your experince or employer. As you seem to have found the holy grail in aviation that all the rest of us have missed, naturally people will start to wonder how genuine your claims are.
Paidworker,
It is unclear at the moment. I believe the goal is to be self-reliant on upgrades to maintain their captain pool. It seems that's going to be the only way too. As conditions are slowly picking up, people are talking (and not only talking) about leaving. A lot of captains seem to be more and more eager to jump ship. Can't blaim them of course.
The sad thing is Ryanair could be a fantastic company. The aircraft are young, the routes challenging and the training good. It's just this terrible, terrible way of dealing with people that they have. There's a few small adjustments that if they would be done, pilot and cabin crew loyalty would skyrocket.
I'm working for this company until something better comes along. Most of my friends share the same view. For the company, that's sad.
You're missing some things. First, not all bases suffer from the "standby-itis". In fact, the enormous amounts of standby's seem to mostly hit UK bases. I've explained why somewhere else on this forum. But what it boils down to is too many Ryanair bases too close together. In other bases, flying remains quite steady throughout the winter. From when I was an FO I remember 50-60 hours in the winter. I wonder how many legacy carriers (maybe yours) can sport those figures for their FO's on a 737 or equivelant aircraft.
Second, paying for your type rating is still investing in your future. I would not pay for landing fees or fuel for a particular carrier. But my type rating is for the most flown passenger aircraft in the world, so wouldn't you say having that aircraft on your license is a good investment?
Last. You can't blame people for asking questions about your experince or employer. As you seem to have found the holy grail in aviation that all the rest of us have missed, naturally people will start to wonder how genuine your claims are.
Paidworker,
It is unclear at the moment. I believe the goal is to be self-reliant on upgrades to maintain their captain pool. It seems that's going to be the only way too. As conditions are slowly picking up, people are talking (and not only talking) about leaving. A lot of captains seem to be more and more eager to jump ship. Can't blaim them of course.
The sad thing is Ryanair could be a fantastic company. The aircraft are young, the routes challenging and the training good. It's just this terrible, terrible way of dealing with people that they have. There's a few small adjustments that if they would be done, pilot and cabin crew loyalty would skyrocket.
I'm working for this company until something better comes along. Most of my friends share the same view. For the company, that's sad.
Last edited by d105; 20th Dec 2010 at 13:55.
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d105,
I haven't ever claimed to have found the holy grail of aviation. All I said was that I haven't had to pay for a job. 10 years ago that was the norm, why is it so hard for you to accept that it still should be? What I do and who I do it for is still irrelevant to this Ryanair thread. Whether or not my claims are genuine does not change the realities of working for Ryanair, does it?!
Investing in your future maybe, if there are other jobs to go to. You've said it yourself you're only hanging around until something better turns up. Why are you still here?
Maybe you're doing 50 hours a month or you're on standby all month but the point is that, potentially, everybody will sooner or later end up on a majority of standbys instead of flying. Fly the cheap pilots, don't have to pay for the expensive ones!
lospilotos,
Type ratings and essential training also used to be a direct operating cost of the airlines, until the first person opened the flood gates and paid for it. Fuel, landing fees, navigation fees and maybe even passenger compensation will remain direct operating costs until the first plonker accepts a contract which says they are liable for these costs. Watch this space.
I haven't ever claimed to have found the holy grail of aviation. All I said was that I haven't had to pay for a job. 10 years ago that was the norm, why is it so hard for you to accept that it still should be? What I do and who I do it for is still irrelevant to this Ryanair thread. Whether or not my claims are genuine does not change the realities of working for Ryanair, does it?!
Investing in your future maybe, if there are other jobs to go to. You've said it yourself you're only hanging around until something better turns up. Why are you still here?
Maybe you're doing 50 hours a month or you're on standby all month but the point is that, potentially, everybody will sooner or later end up on a majority of standbys instead of flying. Fly the cheap pilots, don't have to pay for the expensive ones!
lospilotos,
Type ratings and essential training also used to be a direct operating cost of the airlines, until the first person opened the flood gates and paid for it. Fuel, landing fees, navigation fees and maybe even passenger compensation will remain direct operating costs until the first plonker accepts a contract which says they are liable for these costs. Watch this space.
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Spandex Masher,
In 1921 women got the right to vote in my country and until 1964 it was basically illegal to be unemployed. In late 2010 you are now allowed to be openly gay in the US military. As I recall it, around 1995, a one way ticket to London cost something like 600 GBP since you could only buy one-way tickets in Business Class. Of course airlines could pay for everything then. Newsflash!!! Things change...
I´m not a woman nor gay, and I´m sure you´ll come up with something witty to comment on all of the above, which I´m looking forward to having a good smile about. But that´s really all your comments in this thread are worth, a big smile.
Would I have loved to have had everything paid for me? Of course!
Did I have a choice? At this point, not really!
Have I earnt my right hand seat of the B737? Definately!
In 1921 women got the right to vote in my country and until 1964 it was basically illegal to be unemployed. In late 2010 you are now allowed to be openly gay in the US military. As I recall it, around 1995, a one way ticket to London cost something like 600 GBP since you could only buy one-way tickets in Business Class. Of course airlines could pay for everything then. Newsflash!!! Things change...
I´m not a woman nor gay, and I´m sure you´ll come up with something witty to comment on all of the above, which I´m looking forward to having a good smile about. But that´s really all your comments in this thread are worth, a big smile.
Would I have loved to have had everything paid for me? Of course!
Did I have a choice? At this point, not really!
Have I earnt my right hand seat of the B737? Definately!
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Irishpilot, in 2020 will you happily pay for something that used to be free just because it's ten years from now?
How about if I charge you for parking in your own driveway because it's now ten years after 2000 and I own a public carpark. How does that sit with you?
How about if I charge you for parking in your own driveway because it's now ten years after 2000 and I own a public carpark. How does that sit with you?
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lospilotos,
Ask yourself why things have changed. Do you really think that airlines are only able to survive these days because you paid for your type rating? Much respect to you then, thanks.
Or do you maybe think airlines are taking the easy way out by getting you top pay for some of their costs? Much respect Mr CEO, you've achieved survival by using your employees to partly fund your airline.
I bet you're a really good driver then.
Ask yourself why things have changed. Do you really think that airlines are only able to survive these days because you paid for your type rating? Much respect to you then, thanks.
Or do you maybe think airlines are taking the easy way out by getting you top pay for some of their costs? Much respect Mr CEO, you've achieved survival by using your employees to partly fund your airline.
I´m not a woman nor gay
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Dear all,
I would cut Lord Spandex Masher some slack.
His arguments, in my opinion, are sound. Just because what he says may sound old fashioned doesn't mean they're irrelevant.
A zero hours, no guarantees of income contract means one thing only: heartache going forward. Ever tried getting a mortgage on such a contract when your 25 year old girlfriend gets pregnant (congratulations by the way)?
Our profession used to be worth something.
Now, it seems youngsters are happy to get into £100k+ debt in order to live the dream: an 0350z report for NRN-SXF-NRN-ZAZ-NRN or whatever for 5 days in a row. See the World? See a f?cling psychiatrist more like.
What Spandex is saying is spot on. Listen to him when it comes to zero hours, standby contracts.
I would cut Lord Spandex Masher some slack.
His arguments, in my opinion, are sound. Just because what he says may sound old fashioned doesn't mean they're irrelevant.
A zero hours, no guarantees of income contract means one thing only: heartache going forward. Ever tried getting a mortgage on such a contract when your 25 year old girlfriend gets pregnant (congratulations by the way)?
Our profession used to be worth something.
Now, it seems youngsters are happy to get into £100k+ debt in order to live the dream: an 0350z report for NRN-SXF-NRN-ZAZ-NRN or whatever for 5 days in a row. See the World? See a f?cling psychiatrist more like.
What Spandex is saying is spot on. Listen to him when it comes to zero hours, standby contracts.
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Spandex,
Ha ha, yes I do alright thank you...
Your grudge seems to be with that one first person that accepted to pay for his/her (his I guess) type rating. Now, 10 or so years down the line you cannot take that out on all the thousands of good pilots that has gone down that road since.
Of course, the fact that we as pilots do not need any type rating and recurrent training paid by the company is not the only reason as to why FR is making approx 300 MEUR profit this year. It is an overall commitment to cutting costs and having a lean operation along with a smart business model that is the reason for that.
What I´m trying to say is that there is no use living in the past. Why not just enjoy the fact that you did not have to pay for your training and get on with it.
PS. Personally I´m happy to let women vote, but they should not be allowed to drive.. DS.
Ha ha, yes I do alright thank you...
Your grudge seems to be with that one first person that accepted to pay for his/her (his I guess) type rating. Now, 10 or so years down the line you cannot take that out on all the thousands of good pilots that has gone down that road since.
Of course, the fact that we as pilots do not need any type rating and recurrent training paid by the company is not the only reason as to why FR is making approx 300 MEUR profit this year. It is an overall commitment to cutting costs and having a lean operation along with a smart business model that is the reason for that.
What I´m trying to say is that there is no use living in the past. Why not just enjoy the fact that you did not have to pay for your training and get on with it.
PS. Personally I´m happy to let women vote, but they should not be allowed to drive.. DS.
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lospilotos,
You say you'd rather not have had to pay for your type rating. What about when you have to pay for the next one and the one after that and the one after that? Can you? Will you?
I agree, there's no use living in the past. We can't change what has happened. However, we can influence what is going to happen.
Lets not F up the future anymore than it already is.
Stan,
Thanks, I though I was the only one. Watch out for snipers though
You say you'd rather not have had to pay for your type rating. What about when you have to pay for the next one and the one after that and the one after that? Can you? Will you?
I agree, there's no use living in the past. We can't change what has happened. However, we can influence what is going to happen.
Lets not F up the future anymore than it already is.
Stan,
Thanks, I though I was the only one. Watch out for snipers though
Last edited by Lord Spandex Masher; 20th Dec 2010 at 15:34.
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Spandex
Some guys going into Wizz air pay for their type ratings. I know two personally. I know guys at Easy that paid for their ratings on the way in. Jet 2, FlyNiki, and I met a guy some time back that paid for his training on the ATR into Aurigny. This is is'nt just Ryanair. And would'nt it be great if this was,nt the case.
As d105 said given the amount of input you have on this thread and this industry, it would be interesting to know where you are coming from.
However you have the right to remain completely anonymous, and I for one respect that.
As d105 said given the amount of input you have on this thread and this industry, it would be interesting to know where you are coming from.
However you have the right to remain completely anonymous, and I for one respect that.