BALPA - UK facing shortage of pilots
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Last time there was a shortage of pilots was in the summer of 1945!!
Its cheaper for an airline to hire expats than it is to sponsor a guy from zero to hero.
Plus with the UK government being anti aviation with the increase of green house tax on airline tickets and the CAA increasing their over priced test fees or for license issuance the aviation industry will soon come to an end in the UK.
Richard Branson had on the Virgin Atlantic website a petition against the green house tax because the money wasn't getting used to help lower emissions in any way or being used to help development in Bio fuels and better technology.
Its cheaper for an airline to hire expats than it is to sponsor a guy from zero to hero.
Plus with the UK government being anti aviation with the increase of green house tax on airline tickets and the CAA increasing their over priced test fees or for license issuance the aviation industry will soon come to an end in the UK.
Richard Branson had on the Virgin Atlantic website a petition against the green house tax because the money wasn't getting used to help lower emissions in any way or being used to help development in Bio fuels and better technology.
P2F or what ever
People are actually pretty good at figuring things out for themselves. It just depends on your perspective, are you in or on the outside looking in?
For a young person starting to day without doubt, hand over the cash if you can get it and do it all in one wack and go work at Eazy or Ryan. It makes sense. The $$$ difference between getting to a fatpl and adding a TR is a very good deal when you compare what it gets you. It is simply an investment with very good terms attached if it works out. If it works is as much luck as anything else. Being in the right place at the right time is what really counts.
The hair shirt brigade insists that you have to wander in the wilderness for several years , living on squat, and then slowly work your way up. They say it is to make you a better pilot but the truth is they are just looking at what is in their best financial interest.
The smart money, says stuff that. They recognize the big cost is not the TR, it is the years spent waiting for that RHS in a jet. That someone in their late twenties can reasonably expect to be have a command at Ryan is a very good deal. Log some LHS time and the world is your oyster. You could have a LH command in the ME or Asia by the time you are mid 30's and you will be earning 6 figures.
There is an element of pay back here. Pilots have insisted on rigid seniority for access to the better flying. That means the sooner you get in, the better you do. Why spend a few years as an FI, earning diddly, when an extra 30K will get you a position paying 100K 3,4 5 years earlier. Look at the BA thread, everyone says, get in ASAP.
As for the tossers like Lord Latex, ignore them, they will do what is in their interests when it suits them. If the senior pilots in the UK really gave a damn they are about the only group with any leverage to do something. They are quite happy to see the guys at the bottom screwed if it gives them something they want in pay or schedules.
At the end of the day it is supply and demand that sets pay, it has zip to do with who pays for the training. If pilots get really scarce airlines will simply hire GA types and train them. In the 60's AA hired pilots with 200 SEL hours and it worked out. They even hired a guy who had only ever flown a Eurocoupe and was a little vague on what those pedal things did!
As an aside, 411A, one of the posters on this board who has seen it come and go, figures the market is shaping up to return to the 60's.
Might be a good time to get trained and be prepared to travel.
As always,your mileage may vary.
20driver
For a young person starting to day without doubt, hand over the cash if you can get it and do it all in one wack and go work at Eazy or Ryan. It makes sense. The $$$ difference between getting to a fatpl and adding a TR is a very good deal when you compare what it gets you. It is simply an investment with very good terms attached if it works out. If it works is as much luck as anything else. Being in the right place at the right time is what really counts.
The hair shirt brigade insists that you have to wander in the wilderness for several years , living on squat, and then slowly work your way up. They say it is to make you a better pilot but the truth is they are just looking at what is in their best financial interest.
The smart money, says stuff that. They recognize the big cost is not the TR, it is the years spent waiting for that RHS in a jet. That someone in their late twenties can reasonably expect to be have a command at Ryan is a very good deal. Log some LHS time and the world is your oyster. You could have a LH command in the ME or Asia by the time you are mid 30's and you will be earning 6 figures.
There is an element of pay back here. Pilots have insisted on rigid seniority for access to the better flying. That means the sooner you get in, the better you do. Why spend a few years as an FI, earning diddly, when an extra 30K will get you a position paying 100K 3,4 5 years earlier. Look at the BA thread, everyone says, get in ASAP.
As for the tossers like Lord Latex, ignore them, they will do what is in their interests when it suits them. If the senior pilots in the UK really gave a damn they are about the only group with any leverage to do something. They are quite happy to see the guys at the bottom screwed if it gives them something they want in pay or schedules.
At the end of the day it is supply and demand that sets pay, it has zip to do with who pays for the training. If pilots get really scarce airlines will simply hire GA types and train them. In the 60's AA hired pilots with 200 SEL hours and it worked out. They even hired a guy who had only ever flown a Eurocoupe and was a little vague on what those pedal things did!
As an aside, 411A, one of the posters on this board who has seen it come and go, figures the market is shaping up to return to the 60's.
Might be a good time to get trained and be prepared to travel.
As always,your mileage may vary.
20driver
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As for the tossers like Lord Latex, ignore them, they will do what is in their interests when it suits them. If the senior pilots in the UK really gave a damn they are about the only group with any leverage to do something. They are quite happy to see the guys at the bottom screwed if it gives them something they want in pay or schedules.
Ignore P2F and hope it goes away? If I'd had the chance to prevent it then I would, but I didn't. You will find that the only people who have any leverage to prevent it are the idiots paying for a job! Fact.
Please bear in mind that it would be better for everybody, in the long run, if P2F didn't exist, including you and me.
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Lord Spandex and others,
Tell me who's the idiot (morals and ethics aside) -
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL never spends a penny on a type rating or any P2F scheme and waits for things to improve but with no idea of when, how or if this will happen. Of course his conscience will be clear, although that will be of limited use!
OR
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL does whatever he has to do to survive/succeed and get ahead of the competition.
The answer is not as clear cut as some people make out and just because some people don't do what you would, doesn't make them idiots! I'll say again I do not like P2F but in the current climate I completely understand why some pilots choose it.
One thing I have learned in my decade or so of training, instructing and commercial flying is NEVER rely on fellow pilots to do right by you. They are the biggest bunch of hypocrites and bull**** talkers I have ever seen! This I have learned through hard experience!
No one is living your life except you and it isn't a dress rehearsal!
Tell me who's the idiot (morals and ethics aside) -
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL never spends a penny on a type rating or any P2F scheme and waits for things to improve but with no idea of when, how or if this will happen. Of course his conscience will be clear, although that will be of limited use!
OR
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL does whatever he has to do to survive/succeed and get ahead of the competition.
The answer is not as clear cut as some people make out and just because some people don't do what you would, doesn't make them idiots! I'll say again I do not like P2F but in the current climate I completely understand why some pilots choose it.
One thing I have learned in my decade or so of training, instructing and commercial flying is NEVER rely on fellow pilots to do right by you. They are the biggest bunch of hypocrites and bull**** talkers I have ever seen! This I have learned through hard experience!
No one is living your life except you and it isn't a dress rehearsal!
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KyleRB, you tell me who the idiot is?
The kid with 250 hrs who will be sat in the right hand seat of a budget airline for 10 years then left hand for 30 years........ end of career.....
or
someone who instructs after doing a cpl/ir, maybe a bit of single pilot stuff, and bit of turboprop flying? By the time he/she has been around aviation for a few years they make a rational decision about their career. Guess what, by then they can actually fly an aeroplane with some SA too. If they then decide to join an airline, they still have time to squeeze in the obligatory 2 divorces, cabin crew partner, 1 bedroom flat - lifestyle.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I became a pilot to fly aeroplanes; not for money. If it were only about money, your argument would be sound.
Anyway......... back to the thread. The UK is currently nowhere near short of pilots. When 250hr kids and 1000hr instructors can walk straight into a job that pays more than working in Mcdonalds we may be.
The kid with 250 hrs who will be sat in the right hand seat of a budget airline for 10 years then left hand for 30 years........ end of career.....
or
someone who instructs after doing a cpl/ir, maybe a bit of single pilot stuff, and bit of turboprop flying? By the time he/she has been around aviation for a few years they make a rational decision about their career. Guess what, by then they can actually fly an aeroplane with some SA too. If they then decide to join an airline, they still have time to squeeze in the obligatory 2 divorces, cabin crew partner, 1 bedroom flat - lifestyle.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I became a pilot to fly aeroplanes; not for money. If it were only about money, your argument would be sound.
Anyway......... back to the thread. The UK is currently nowhere near short of pilots. When 250hr kids and 1000hr instructors can walk straight into a job that pays more than working in Mcdonalds we may be.
Last edited by CoiledString; 9th Nov 2010 at 16:54.
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Too tired to fly
No-one will survive 10 years right-seat then 30 years left-seat in a low-cost carrier. Death from fatigue after about 15 years, unless part-time option taken.
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CoiledString
No one is the idiot, people enter aviation for different reasons. I personally do not blame youngsters these days for ignoring noble trades like instructing because it doesn't have the value it once had or still deserves. I was an instructor for over 1500 hours before I got lucky. Now I am a co-captain on a biz jet with well over 3000 hours and I didn't have to pay for the rating.
However I have some highly capable fellow instructor mates who are still languishing with over 2000 hours in their logbooks. One of them got so fed up with his lot he jacked it in and sold his soul to the devil
. By that I mean he completed one of these P2F schemes and is now I believe on a permanent contract flying an A320, earning twice his instructor salary! He'll pay off the loan fairly quickly I reckon.
It's because of him that I have become open-minded to the issue. He served his time and deserved a break but as one wasn't forthcoming, he decided to be pro-active and do it himself! Good for him I say! Remember not everyone on a P2F scheme is a 200 hour wannabe wonderboy!
No one is the idiot, people enter aviation for different reasons. I personally do not blame youngsters these days for ignoring noble trades like instructing because it doesn't have the value it once had or still deserves. I was an instructor for over 1500 hours before I got lucky. Now I am a co-captain on a biz jet with well over 3000 hours and I didn't have to pay for the rating.
However I have some highly capable fellow instructor mates who are still languishing with over 2000 hours in their logbooks. One of them got so fed up with his lot he jacked it in and sold his soul to the devil
. By that I mean he completed one of these P2F schemes and is now I believe on a permanent contract flying an A320, earning twice his instructor salary! He'll pay off the loan fairly quickly I reckon. It's because of him that I have become open-minded to the issue. He served his time and deserved a break but as one wasn't forthcoming, he decided to be pro-active and do it himself! Good for him I say! Remember not everyone on a P2F scheme is a 200 hour wannabe wonderboy!
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One thing I have learned in my decade or so of training, instructing and commercial flying is NEVER rely on fellow pilots to do right by you.
This website we all use, be we for or against P2F, have big banners advertising such schemes! Unfortunately, it's all about money these days
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Forget the traditional route!
All this talk about the traditional route is dead and buried. Why on earth would anyone spend £7k on a FIR when you could get a TR with hours??
But then don't dare to complain about why you're getting zero hours over winter on your flexi-screw contract.
But then don't dare to complain about why you're getting zero hours over winter on your flexi-screw contract.
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It's like this....when the chief pilots get serious and want to hire experienced captains, all they have to do, is dig through the resume pile...the issue isn't P2F...it's the hiring policy of the airline to hire people who can fly or kids who will never leave and take orders.
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Tell me who's the idiot (morals and ethics aside) -
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL never spends a penny on a type rating or any P2F scheme and waits for things to improve but with no idea of when, how or if this will happen. Of course his conscience will be clear, although that will be of limited use!
OR
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL does whatever he has to do to survive/succeed and get ahead of the competition.
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL never spends a penny on a type rating or any P2F scheme and waits for things to improve but with no idea of when, how or if this will happen. Of course his conscience will be clear, although that will be of limited use!
OR
the person who after getting his frozen ATPL does whatever he has to do to survive/succeed and get ahead of the competition.
You won't have to wait for things to improve because I can tell you exactly when they will. They will improve, utterly and completely, when everybody decides that what they are doing is stupid in the extreme. That will be when the proper contracts, terms and conditions and working practices will have to be realised. Full stop!
If you stopped accepting crappy contracts and poor working conditions then it would stop. Just like that. You are ruining your own future and the future of this industry. I hope for everybody's sake that, very soon, your money runs out.
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Hi!
This may be the situation in the UK, I don't know.
But, in the US, it is the opposite. EVERY airline (except UPS, which is making record profits) is recalling, and most have started hiring. The airlines that have been hiring for any length of time have already had to lower their minimums to get enough candidates.
Within the next year, and then in 2012, and then in 2013, the recruiting situation will get MUCH worse for the US airlines.
I think they will HAVE to start an MCL system here to keep up. One thing that may help, to some degree, is trainers with electric motors, which will reduce the cost dramatically.
cliff
LGG
When pilots are getting laid off, airlines are going tango uniform, T&C's are ever decreasing as carriers look for a few points on cent per passenger seat mile, people are still lining up to sign on the dotted line, get their parents, or their own house in hock on the fallacy of available jobs out there. A pilot shortage...
But, in the US, it is the opposite. EVERY airline (except UPS, which is making record profits) is recalling, and most have started hiring. The airlines that have been hiring for any length of time have already had to lower their minimums to get enough candidates.
Within the next year, and then in 2012, and then in 2013, the recruiting situation will get MUCH worse for the US airlines.
I think they will HAVE to start an MCL system here to keep up. One thing that may help, to some degree, is trainers with electric motors, which will reduce the cost dramatically.
cliff
LGG
EASA need to follow the FAA approach and not allow people under 1500 hours fly passenger aircraft, maybe just over a set weight.
This would stop the P2F who just buy a seat in an airline and make people see the enjoyable side of gaining experience.
Maybe limit it to aircraft over 10T!
This will help prevent the industry from becoming a race to the bottom and a marketplace for those with the deepest pockets!
WAKE UP BALPA!!!!!!!
This would stop the P2F who just buy a seat in an airline and make people see the enjoyable side of gaining experience.
Maybe limit it to aircraft over 10T!
This will help prevent the industry from becoming a race to the bottom and a marketplace for those with the deepest pockets!
WAKE UP BALPA!!!!!!!
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atpcliff,
That's good to hear.
A significant issue that causes endemic problems in the UK is that we have a legislative base that is rather different to that in the US.
Take for example the above comment from another poster 20driver, also US based..
To a degree, I concur with that. However, here in the UK, lets say you gained your fATPL through 'XYZ' FTO, the flexicrew scheme is run through CTC, so unless you are a CTC student, that is, you've paid your money and gained an fATPL through them, then the EZ flexicrew contract is going to be a tough call to even get your name on the list for.
You went to 'XYZ' FTO, so not being from that training facility CTC has little interest in putting your name on the list..
Now, lets consider that Ryan run theirs through lets say SFAA, and having gone through 'XYZ' FTO, you face the same issue..
Now lets consider if you went to SFAA and Ryan put on a recruitment freeze, you are going to find it a tough job to get on the list for the CTC flexicrew program.
Likewise, if you went to CTC and the flexicrew program is put on ice, you are not going to get a look in at another carriers scheme run through a competitor FTO.
The problem can start right at the outset of selecting an FTO, in that you are going to find your options available limited to the schemes run by that FTO, and if by the time you have gained the fATPL that the scheme has been terminated, put on hold, or switched to another FTO, your prospects are even further limited, maybe even non existent.
It is the same situation, say, if you went modular through the same FTO, unless you are an integrated student, you can pretty much be considered persona non grata, on trying to get onto a scheme run by that FTO, as the push is for their own money spinners, integrated students.
Now, if we consider once you have gained an fATPL through whichever FTO, to progress into a self funded TR, you are going to have cough up maybe some 35,000 Euros. Yet, within the industry, you can gain the same TR through a JAA regulated, and based, provider for some 12,000 Euros. In some cases, its even the same TR provider.
So in short, unless you go as an integrated student to specific training provider, then you have little chance of getting onto the scheme being run at the time. and if you do, you are going to have to pay treble the going rate for a JAA TR, over what the market rate currently stands at.
Where the problem stands here is that the FTOs are in a competitive market, so while they are building up a pool of candidates for their partner airlines, who are now severely restricted on the positions they can apply for, the FTO's are in a position of presenting a portfolio of candidates that have little option in T&C's they will accept as the doors elsewhere are closed.
As one FTO builds up a portfolio of candidates, a competitor will likewise build up a similar portfolio, but even more attractive, this bunch will accept lower TC's and pay even more for TR scheme.
And so the cycle perpetuates.
From a realistic point for the carrier, this is great. Portfolios of pilots that will accept ever reducing terms and cost overheads to the carrier. As a business owner, you can take an option that will reduce your overheads with little commitment, over what your current costs and commitments are. It's a no brainer.
Further to this, why as a carrier would you want to take on a rated pilot with time on type, on the salary that would be commensurate with such experience, when you have a portfolio of cadets that are presented with overheads and terms that would be a lot more financially 'attractive'.
In Europe, particularly the UK, there is simply not the GA traffic that would allow to build up time and experience to the quantity that industry requires. Consider the busiest GA airport in the US has more movements in a day, than the busiest GA airport in the UK has in a month. Further to that GA in the US is considerably more cost effective than in the UK.
While the US has, constitutionally, certain rights and freedoms and prevention of restrictive practices, the UK does not to the same degree.
The FTOs are the ones driving the market and they are doing so for their own survival and competitive basis.
If someone wants to pay for a TR, over being bonded, then fine, that is their prerogative, but conversely, if the JAA regulated carrier wont pay for a TR, then accept a TR from a JAA regulated TR provider.
Or do they not have the confidence in their own regulator ?
Similarly, there needs to be regulation from the restrictive practices on employment prospects employed by the FTO's. If carriers need pilots or cadets, then they should be accepting all candidates that have appropriate paperwork, provided by the acceptable authority. Even more so with the FTO's if they want to provide a portfolio of cadets/ pilots to a carrier, then it should not be restricted to guys who are effectively held to ransom.
To return back to the core point of the thread, there is no shortage of pilots. What there is, is a shortage of pilots with access to the recruitment departments of aircraft operators, as operators have become dependent on 'partner' FTO's for crew recruitment. For BLAPA to even suggest a pilot shortage, while ignoring the core problem is, well, frankly shameful.
The recruitment needs to be open and level, not based on restrictive practices which are damaging the industry from top to bottom in the medium and long term.
That's good to hear.
A significant issue that causes endemic problems in the UK is that we have a legislative base that is rather different to that in the US.
Take for example the above comment from another poster 20driver, also US based..
For a young person starting to day without doubt, hand over the cash if you can get it and do it all in one wack and go work at Eazy or Ryan. It makes sense. The $$$ difference between getting to a fatpl and adding a TR is a very good deal when you compare what it gets you.
You went to 'XYZ' FTO, so not being from that training facility CTC has little interest in putting your name on the list..
Now, lets consider that Ryan run theirs through lets say SFAA, and having gone through 'XYZ' FTO, you face the same issue..
Now lets consider if you went to SFAA and Ryan put on a recruitment freeze, you are going to find it a tough job to get on the list for the CTC flexicrew program.
Likewise, if you went to CTC and the flexicrew program is put on ice, you are not going to get a look in at another carriers scheme run through a competitor FTO.
The problem can start right at the outset of selecting an FTO, in that you are going to find your options available limited to the schemes run by that FTO, and if by the time you have gained the fATPL that the scheme has been terminated, put on hold, or switched to another FTO, your prospects are even further limited, maybe even non existent.
It is the same situation, say, if you went modular through the same FTO, unless you are an integrated student, you can pretty much be considered persona non grata, on trying to get onto a scheme run by that FTO, as the push is for their own money spinners, integrated students.
Now, if we consider once you have gained an fATPL through whichever FTO, to progress into a self funded TR, you are going to have cough up maybe some 35,000 Euros. Yet, within the industry, you can gain the same TR through a JAA regulated, and based, provider for some 12,000 Euros. In some cases, its even the same TR provider.
So in short, unless you go as an integrated student to specific training provider, then you have little chance of getting onto the scheme being run at the time. and if you do, you are going to have to pay treble the going rate for a JAA TR, over what the market rate currently stands at.
Where the problem stands here is that the FTOs are in a competitive market, so while they are building up a pool of candidates for their partner airlines, who are now severely restricted on the positions they can apply for, the FTO's are in a position of presenting a portfolio of candidates that have little option in T&C's they will accept as the doors elsewhere are closed.
As one FTO builds up a portfolio of candidates, a competitor will likewise build up a similar portfolio, but even more attractive, this bunch will accept lower TC's and pay even more for TR scheme.
And so the cycle perpetuates.
From a realistic point for the carrier, this is great. Portfolios of pilots that will accept ever reducing terms and cost overheads to the carrier. As a business owner, you can take an option that will reduce your overheads with little commitment, over what your current costs and commitments are. It's a no brainer.
Further to this, why as a carrier would you want to take on a rated pilot with time on type, on the salary that would be commensurate with such experience, when you have a portfolio of cadets that are presented with overheads and terms that would be a lot more financially 'attractive'.
In Europe, particularly the UK, there is simply not the GA traffic that would allow to build up time and experience to the quantity that industry requires. Consider the busiest GA airport in the US has more movements in a day, than the busiest GA airport in the UK has in a month. Further to that GA in the US is considerably more cost effective than in the UK.
While the US has, constitutionally, certain rights and freedoms and prevention of restrictive practices, the UK does not to the same degree.
The FTOs are the ones driving the market and they are doing so for their own survival and competitive basis.
If someone wants to pay for a TR, over being bonded, then fine, that is their prerogative, but conversely, if the JAA regulated carrier wont pay for a TR, then accept a TR from a JAA regulated TR provider.
Or do they not have the confidence in their own regulator ?
Similarly, there needs to be regulation from the restrictive practices on employment prospects employed by the FTO's. If carriers need pilots or cadets, then they should be accepting all candidates that have appropriate paperwork, provided by the acceptable authority. Even more so with the FTO's if they want to provide a portfolio of cadets/ pilots to a carrier, then it should not be restricted to guys who are effectively held to ransom.
To return back to the core point of the thread, there is no shortage of pilots. What there is, is a shortage of pilots with access to the recruitment departments of aircraft operators, as operators have become dependent on 'partner' FTO's for crew recruitment. For BLAPA to even suggest a pilot shortage, while ignoring the core problem is, well, frankly shameful.
The recruitment needs to be open and level, not based on restrictive practices which are damaging the industry from top to bottom in the medium and long term.
Last edited by stuckgear; 28th Feb 2011 at 11:59. Reason: typo
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Kyle RB and others.
I did a self sponsored Cap 509 course. When I left college even the TP operators wanted 1000hours tt. I was caught out by 9/11. I had 2 job offers which were both pulled.
I ended up renting my flat and flying aerial photography in a 172 for peanuts. This led on to a job flying the legendary Aztec for a survey company, getting paid chips and then the C404 and C402 in single pilot survey and air taxi roles where finally I could afford Beer. I then went on to fly a large TP and am now flying one of the first of the new generation (last of the old!) Jets. The fantastic B757. I have NEVER paid for a type rating.
When times were bad after 9/11, I came close. Even then it seemed FUNDEMENTALLY WRONG to pay for training that should be provided by your employer, using their SOPS. I am so glad I didn't. If I had I would have missed out on the best bit of my career so far, all that great experience and fun I had flying the 172 and the twins. If I could get paid what I earn now I would go back and do that tomorrow. It has been the most rewarding task orientated flying I have done.
If people can't afford to work as an instructor, glider tugging, para dropping, or aerial photography after they have paid for the course then they can't afford to do it. Period.
Those that shelve out for a type rating, it does not guarantee a job. So that is another 20 grand blown. Take that cash and get your FI or live in a caravan flying for peanuts (at least you are getting paid something) and live off the 20 grand that would have been spent on the A320 type rating you guys think you need to feel like a real pilot.
A true professional spends time gaining exposure and experience, learning the tools of the trade.
I did a self sponsored Cap 509 course. When I left college even the TP operators wanted 1000hours tt. I was caught out by 9/11. I had 2 job offers which were both pulled.
I ended up renting my flat and flying aerial photography in a 172 for peanuts. This led on to a job flying the legendary Aztec for a survey company, getting paid chips and then the C404 and C402 in single pilot survey and air taxi roles where finally I could afford Beer. I then went on to fly a large TP and am now flying one of the first of the new generation (last of the old!) Jets. The fantastic B757. I have NEVER paid for a type rating.
When times were bad after 9/11, I came close. Even then it seemed FUNDEMENTALLY WRONG to pay for training that should be provided by your employer, using their SOPS. I am so glad I didn't. If I had I would have missed out on the best bit of my career so far, all that great experience and fun I had flying the 172 and the twins. If I could get paid what I earn now I would go back and do that tomorrow. It has been the most rewarding task orientated flying I have done.
If people can't afford to work as an instructor, glider tugging, para dropping, or aerial photography after they have paid for the course then they can't afford to do it. Period.
Those that shelve out for a type rating, it does not guarantee a job. So that is another 20 grand blown. Take that cash and get your FI or live in a caravan flying for peanuts (at least you are getting paid something) and live off the 20 grand that would have been spent on the A320 type rating you guys think you need to feel like a real pilot.
A true professional spends time gaining exposure and experience, learning the tools of the trade.
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Guys
The 1500 hours rule makes sense but will it ever be implemented here in the UK who knows!? In principle it is a good idea, especially above a certain aeroplane weight. However, the major FTO/TRTOs like OAA and CTC may have something not very nice to say about it! Also, do you exclude fully sponsored cadets with circa 200 hours who have been through a rigorous selection process and have exemplary training records?
Stuckgear, you make some good points which highlight some of the quirks of our system.
The 1500 hours rule makes sense but will it ever be implemented here in the UK who knows!? In principle it is a good idea, especially above a certain aeroplane weight. However, the major FTO/TRTOs like OAA and CTC may have something not very nice to say about it! Also, do you exclude fully sponsored cadets with circa 200 hours who have been through a rigorous selection process and have exemplary training records?
Stuckgear, you make some good points which highlight some of the quirks of our system.
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Originally Posted by snoop
A true professional spends time gaining exposure and experience, learning the tools of the trade.
But I always made sure I had beer money
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1500 people just applied to BA Cityflyer. Read a figure of 2000 to Jet 2. Many with experience from heavy TP's and medium sized jets. I don't think there is going to be a shortgage of Pilot's anytime soon! Especially given over 1000 shiny new CPL's were issued by the CAA in 2009.