What is going on with Olympic Air ????
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What is going on with Olympic Air ????
Within tha last few weeks a number of pilots ( rumors that they are more than 30) have been fired, in a rather unsual way. They have been called in Flight Operations Manager's office, where a lady from HR was also present, and have been informed that their services are not needed any more. An envelope with their finishing salary was handed to them. 
The latest incident happened two days ago :
The aicraft, was ready for push back in Athens International, when the Captain was informed by ground crew to stop the procedure and open the door (company order). After doing so a company representative came in cockpit only to announce, to the two astonished pilots
, that the FO cannot fly because he had already been fired and by mistake have not been informed by HR
You can imagine the rest
Two hours delay until the STBY FO arrived.
The latest incident happened two days ago :
The aicraft, was ready for push back in Athens International, when the Captain was informed by ground crew to stop the procedure and open the door (company order). After doing so a company representative came in cockpit only to announce, to the two astonished pilots
, that the FO cannot fly because he had already been fired and by mistake have not been informed by HR You can imagine the rest
Two hours delay until the STBY FO arrived.
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Trust me guys its Chaos out there.
Before anyone asks how I know this, please trust me on this one I have had firsthand experience.
When I was there it was initially ok, however working alongside the Flybe contract always had its minor issues. Mainly the BEE guys doing it right and better. This put the Greek noses often out of joint.
Anyway towards the end, 40 Pilots from the airbus fleet were made redundant as they are minimising the fleet due to the Aegean Merger. Before anyone asks although in principle the Greek Government has deferred the deal until December, its already happening behind closed doors. This is Greece and this is how they work, they are unwilling to change.
The most astonishing thing is that they made the good guys walk and kept the guys from the 'OLD' Olympic. They are trying there best to improve standards one gentleman in the flight safety office is a great guy (british) but in my humble opinion he is fighting a losing battle. Aviation is bizarre in Greece. As evident from the recent release of 40 pilots from the airbus fleet. There are guys screaming to get out, mostly the Contract guys.
Again in my humble opinion, leave well alone. Once flybe return on the 31st OCT they will be left alone with pilots with little experience on the Q400, yet don’t worry they have been flying these islands for 40years!! Yeah ok whatever!
Leave alone guys, look elsewhere and let’s see what’s left of them in the later part of the year. Its a toy town in Athens and the grownups still see themselves as skygods!?
In Reality they are clueless, to the real world of aviation, safety, FDM and EU Ops.
Before anyone asks how I know this, please trust me on this one I have had firsthand experience.
When I was there it was initially ok, however working alongside the Flybe contract always had its minor issues. Mainly the BEE guys doing it right and better. This put the Greek noses often out of joint.
Anyway towards the end, 40 Pilots from the airbus fleet were made redundant as they are minimising the fleet due to the Aegean Merger. Before anyone asks although in principle the Greek Government has deferred the deal until December, its already happening behind closed doors. This is Greece and this is how they work, they are unwilling to change.
The most astonishing thing is that they made the good guys walk and kept the guys from the 'OLD' Olympic. They are trying there best to improve standards one gentleman in the flight safety office is a great guy (british) but in my humble opinion he is fighting a losing battle. Aviation is bizarre in Greece. As evident from the recent release of 40 pilots from the airbus fleet. There are guys screaming to get out, mostly the Contract guys.
Again in my humble opinion, leave well alone. Once flybe return on the 31st OCT they will be left alone with pilots with little experience on the Q400, yet don’t worry they have been flying these islands for 40years!! Yeah ok whatever!
Leave alone guys, look elsewhere and let’s see what’s left of them in the later part of the year. Its a toy town in Athens and the grownups still see themselves as skygods!?
In Reality they are clueless, to the real world of aviation, safety, FDM and EU Ops.
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Maxalphaboy and Choppercopper 99,
You guys are right and I can understand why you see the situation as bad and very unprofessional. I also fly here with the so called " competitor " airline, but then again my backround is from here so I see things in a different light. Anything that happens here in Greece, happens for a reason (Conspiracy Theory). The merger (happening or not) will go ahead under the table or above board if approved, its the nature of the market here....money makes things happen.
Don't forget that Aegean will own 75% of the newly merged Olympic and only 6 Olympic Airbus will remain after the merge. Being already fully crewed Aegean will not require any crew, so they will have to go. It is unfortunate...but there is no mercy here in Greece
Its a difficult pill to swallow, but like anyone flying in Greece you always have to have a plan B! And that I always make sure of
Good luck to everyone
You guys are right and I can understand why you see the situation as bad and very unprofessional. I also fly here with the so called " competitor " airline, but then again my backround is from here so I see things in a different light. Anything that happens here in Greece, happens for a reason (Conspiracy Theory). The merger (happening or not) will go ahead under the table or above board if approved, its the nature of the market here....money makes things happen.
Don't forget that Aegean will own 75% of the newly merged Olympic and only 6 Olympic Airbus will remain after the merge. Being already fully crewed Aegean will not require any crew, so they will have to go. It is unfortunate...but there is no mercy here in Greece
Its a difficult pill to swallow, but like anyone flying in Greece you always have to have a plan B! And that I always make sure of
Good luck to everyone
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Maxalphaboy, so your so experienced and your such a great pilot in order to be able to judge pilots from a country that has one of the best safety records in european aviation??? Did you forget about the Flybe pilots that almost landed at the wrong airport in Greece?
Think before you judge.. I agree, things are hectic in greece right now and airlines are unorganised.. take a look at other airlines in Europe and on the "Island", it doesnt differ much..
Think before you judge.. I agree, things are hectic in greece right now and airlines are unorganised.. take a look at other airlines in Europe and on the "Island", it doesnt differ much..
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SVoa,
I only know of one incident that matches what you imply, and the airline involved was not flybe!! Contractor yes but not flybe. Of course I could be wrong as I am not perfect either!
I only know of one incident that matches what you imply, and the airline involved was not flybe!! Contractor yes but not flybe. Of course I could be wrong as I am not perfect either!
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Maxalphaboy, so your so experienced and your such a great pilot
I dont actually recall claiming this, This seems purely an assumption on your part. My point still stands. I had first hand experience of many incidents on a daily basis that spread from minor SOP errors to blatant compromises in safety. Each time they came with a surprising justification from my colleague.
I Cant and Wont argue with you about the safety record in Greece, however I would say that from what I have seen, its most likely because incident are never willingly reported. Also the introduction of FDM at OA is a recent addition, it is already proving interesting!!
I spent months thinking and am fully confident in my judgement of OA and there operation. I find it offensive that you would even consider comparing aviation safety in Greece to that in the UK. Its a Joke, there are massive differences.
With Regard to your BEE incident, I am fully aware of the circumstances and I know the crew involved. Its not as serious as was made out, even in the AAIB report there were inaccuracies.
MAB
Last edited by maxalphaboy; 26th Oct 2010 at 18:15.
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Denti, your comment is almost racist and not in the scope of this conversation. My point is that i know of very many cases not only in Greece and not only in the UK, but in other countries as well where SOP's were ignored and safety compromised. And anyone who works in aviation can tell you the same thing. I also know that when EASA did an audit on Olympic sometime last summer, the results werent to standard, im aware of this. But I think your stretching it a bit.
But yeah I forgot, when investigation board blames the non-greek pilots there are deffinately some inaccuracies...
Bottom line, you dont like it? You know where the door is..
But yeah I forgot, when investigation board blames the non-greek pilots there are deffinately some inaccuracies...
Bottom line, you dont like it? You know where the door is..
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The bottom line is that the country you are burrying right now has a very good safety record in terms of accidents AND incidents. There have been 3 accidents involving greek registered aircraft since 1995, all three of them are involving military aircraft. One more fatal accident within Greek airspace involving a cypriot airliner.. not greek.
A number of incidents on the Q400's at OA recently, all of them NOT involving greek crew. I never said safety standards in the UK are bad.. There are issues everywhere, others are breach of SOP's and others are F/O's flying on max hours and minimum rest, and not having enough money to eat. My point is that looking back, Greece has very good safety records, and so do OA and A3.
A number of incidents on the Q400's at OA recently, all of them NOT involving greek crew. I never said safety standards in the UK are bad.. There are issues everywhere, others are breach of SOP's and others are F/O's flying on max hours and minimum rest, and not having enough money to eat. My point is that looking back, Greece has very good safety records, and so do OA and A3.
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Maxalphaboy,
I have done a search of AAIB reports involving BEE in Greece and the only one I note had nothing to do with 'nearly' landing at the wrong airport. Without throwing stones the incident that did involve 'nearly' landing at the wrong airport was by another operator and type.
I do not have the report of this incident but did speak to the crews of the airline involved, a day or two after that event.
The AAIB event I believe you may be referring to is of something quite different. And I agree, inaccuracies abound.
I have done a search of AAIB reports involving BEE in Greece and the only one I note had nothing to do with 'nearly' landing at the wrong airport. Without throwing stones the incident that did involve 'nearly' landing at the wrong airport was by another operator and type.
I do not have the report of this incident but did speak to the crews of the airline involved, a day or two after that event.
The AAIB event I believe you may be referring to is of something quite different. And I agree, inaccuracies abound.
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CaptAirProx,
You are indeed right, SVOA is incorrect. There was an error by BEE in Greece as seen by the report below. However it was not landing at the wrong airport!?
I know the Captain involved personally, and I know from seeing the initial report that there are inaccuracies in the AAIB report.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...BD%2007-10.pdf
Report: Flybe DH8D at Chania on Feb 23rd 2010, crew forgot about displaced threshold on landing
MAB
You are indeed right, SVOA is incorrect. There was an error by BEE in Greece as seen by the report below. However it was not landing at the wrong airport!?
I know the Captain involved personally, and I know from seeing the initial report that there are inaccuracies in the AAIB report.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...BD%2007-10.pdf
Report: Flybe DH8D at Chania on Feb 23rd 2010, crew forgot about displaced threshold on landing
MAB
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Reading all the above posts... what exactly is the problem? Olympic laying off people and the way they do it? Your contracts ending? Intending merger and ongoing preparation and coordination behind closed doors? And what is so special about it? Hasn't this happened before in other airlines?
If there are safety issues, dear collegues, why do you speak up right now just before your contracts end and not ealier? And please show me a way an airline can hide nowadays accidents.
Denti, spare us your smart comments. We (Greeks) love you, too.
If there are safety issues, dear collegues, why do you speak up right now just before your contracts end and not ealier? And please show me a way an airline can hide nowadays accidents.
Denti, spare us your smart comments. We (Greeks) love you, too.
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From the report:
Non event then. Next case?
The captain recognized the error at the same time and increased thrust to continue to the displaced threshold for a safe landing.
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Correct you are, almost landing at the wrong airport was not a Flybe crew. Apologies for the mistake. It was an ATR42 that mistaked Paros airport for Naxos airport (two airports dont look much alike).. However crew was NOT Greek..
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There have been 3 accidents involving greek registered aircraft since 1995, all three of them are involving military aircraft. One more fatal accident within Greek airspace involving a cypriot airliner.. not greek.
Speaking of inaccuracies, although being off topic, can you help my memory and name those three accidents of SX- registered aircraft since 1995 involving military aircraft? I guess you are not referring to HAF accidents...